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[Archived] Rovers Takeover: End game ?


Glenn

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Any discretionary trust will be set up to undertake the wishes of the benefactor who established it and that was undoubtedly the case when Jack Walker established the Walker Settlement back in the late '80s. Rovers have always been owned by the Trust which is why there was no change of ownership when Jack died.

There are clauses that are in the public domain - the requirement to provide entertainment to the people of Blackburn for one which is the underlying reason why season ticket prices are so low.

When the Trust said that the club was being offered for sale to someone who could do a better job than they can, another clause was clearly being hinted at.

There are people like iamarover and cheshire blue and others who have posted on here who have not disclosed exact clauses but who have explained the way the Walker Trust Settlement impacts on the current sale.

Nicko himself said that Dan Williams Group had offered £40m and more some two years ago yet the reported sale price which four groups have met is £25m.

Could it be any clearer that there are clauses which means the Trust could not sell to Dan Williams but can accept a much lower price from four bidders who are able to match the restrictions in the Trust Settlement document?

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It remains the case that

1) we only have nicko's account of this meeting- the man who has only spoken to Kentaro people twice and that was over ten years ago

STILL WAS FIRST ON THE SCENE TO ANNOUNCE THE DEAL TOGETHER- NOBODY ELSE HAD THIS INFO?

2) the versions of this arrangement are strikingly different if you compare and contrast what Mrs Dessai says and what nicko says.

I DONT THINK MRS DESAI HAS SAID ANYTHING- IT IS THE LET WHO CHOSE TO DISTANCE THEMSELVES, THE SAME LET WHO SAID WE WOULD NOT BE SOLD ANY TIME SOON AND THEN THE NEXT DAY ROVERS ANNOUNCED WE WERE BEING SOLD!!

3) we have seen no pictures of these people being at Anfield last week

BUT WE HAVE HAD TWO DIFFERENT SIGHTINGS OF THEM FROM PEOPLE ON TWITTER/MESSAGEBOARD, IF WE ARE SPECULATING, THE PENDULUM IS IN FAVOUR OF THE FACT THAT THEY WERE THERE.

4) we have seen no pictures of Venkys Kentaro and Rovers Directors or John Williams in the same frame at Ewood yesterday.

THE MAIN PLAYERS WERE THERE, I WOULD ASSUME THEY MET UP SOMEWHERE ELSE, WHY MEET UP IN FRONT OF THE CAMERAS, DO ROVERS REVEAL ALL TO THE PUBLIC?

If Kentaro were at the Premier League meeting on Directors and Owners, presumably that means they are going to have either an ownership stake in Rovers or are going to be Directors....

MAYBE THEY WERE THERE TO SUPPORT THE BROTHERS BID, DID HARRIS NOT DO THE SAME THING WHEN CHELSEA WERE SOLD?

But nicko says that clauses are a fantasy so surely the Trust will sell to the highest bidder in that case.

BUT TRUST THE TRUST?

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So you don't believe nicko when he tries to distance himself from Kentar either then imy?

If I recall correctly someone implied that there were ties between Kentaro/Anderson and Nicko- he made it pretty clear where their relationship stood. He has been pretty honest with his ties to others like 'Le God Coyle' hasnt he?

Just because you are not close to someone does not mean that you cannot find the facts about them.

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Any discretionary trust will be set up to undertake the wishes of the benefactor who established it and that was undoubtedly the case when Jack Walker established the Walker Settlement back in the late '80s. Rovers have always been owned by the Trust which is why there was no change of ownership when Jack died.

There are clauses that are in the public domain - the requirement to provide entertainment to the people of Blackburn for one which is the underlying reason why season ticket prices are so low.

When the Trust said that the club was being offered for sale to someone who could do a better job than they can, another clause was clearly being hinted at.

There are people like iamarover and cheshire blue and others who have posted on here who have not disclosed exact clauses but who have explained the way the Walker Trust Settlement impacts on the current sale.

Nicko himself said that Dan Williams Group had offered £40m and more some two years ago yet the reported sale price which four groups have met is £25m.

Could it be any clearer that there are clauses which means the Trust could not sell to Dan Williams but can accept a much lower price from four bidders who are able to match the restrictions in the Trust Settlement document?

Excuse me but in all that waffle where is the answer to my question? Does the Trust Settlement contain a clause which prevents the Trust members selling to a leveraged buyer? That was your absolute take back on Oct 9 before you seized on newspaper rumours of a loan to VH to buy the club.

As for Dan Williams--I'm assuming the Trust didn't believe he had the necessary resources. I believe the same about Syed. The price is lower now because no buyer could be found and the Trust want rid. Your conclusions above are not based on evidence.

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Your points are well made BPF but, with all due respect, they could apply to anyone who buys the club - VH, Syed, Shah or any of the mystery buyers that have been talked about over the past few months.

Once the Trust decided that they didn't want to remain in control of the club and put it on the open market we became a commodity that someone could buy for their own purposes.

You said that you believed that the Trust was prepared to invest £5 million in January but I would ask why that wasn't made available to the manager in the summer when he needed it!

I'm not particularly happy about the takeover and can't say that I find VH, Syed or Shah convincing as possible owners of this club - although I admit that this is based purely on what I have read in the press. However, those handling the takeover have had access to documentation of all the bidders and have clearly opted for VH as the bid that they feel best for the club.

What I would ask of you BPF is a simple question. If the bid is so bad for the club why are the Trust going along with it? Are you implying that the Trust are going to take the money and run? I must admit that this is not the impression that I have gained over the way the sale has been handled. After the amount of time spent on this I would assume that the Trust have thoroughly investigated potential buyers and clearly there are reasons why they have opted for the VH bid.

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BPF I respect your views and your points

1)I'm sure that I read that one of the brothers is football mad, so would know something about football

2)how do you know that has we can't see into the future

3)JW consider it 5 years ago, personally not in favour of it, but if it would give Big Sam to spend in the transfer market

5)We have to improve our marketing side of the club because when the uefa new rules come kin on club's spending, only spending what you get into the club, so we do need to improve this then

Also why didn't they trust give Big Sam the 5 million pounds in the summer so we could have got a striker and midfield player?????

The new owners if it goes through has said that they will invest more money in the summer and onwards. I would want to see John Williams and Big Sam stay in the current roles at the club. I personally wouldn't want to see any changes to the current management of the club and team.

I am in favour of a takeover of the club and personally would like a fan to buy it but Dan Williams wanted it to buy the club 2 years ago. But he didn't! And Has I have said from the start that we have to trust the JW, the board and rothschilds to find us the right and the think that the VH Group are the right ones form them, Syed and Shah!

From what I have read in the LET, I was happy with what was said about the group but from what i have read in the national press it has concern me but it's only what I have read, so you don't know what to believe in the nationals. Think the LET has been up to date with events and 1st to the interviews with key men in this process like JW and the chairperson of VH!

My questions is to those who do not want us to sell

1)Why do Rovers think that this group are right for the club

2)why have they choose this group and not Syed Ali or Shah group?

Also heard on talksport before the game that Mr Shah was trying to put a deal together for his group to buy rovers at the last minute???

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with all the headless chickens running around this thread who better than Venky's to be the new owners,

never seen as much speculation and second guessing in all my life,

one thing is for sure Blackburn Rovers will continue whoever is in control

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I definitely do not want this to fail. Just genuinely worried for a club that I have followed all my life, as has my father, and his father (etc). If we didn't live in a world of Gillette and Hicks, the Man City turmoil and of course Portsmouth going under I'm sure there may be less biting of fingernails. It hasn't helped that the pr from VH has been poor and conflicting, depending on who they have spoken to.

I suppose you may think "deal with it" but it's a strange feeling of helplessness that the club is at the mercy of a bunch who have no connection or passion, no sentimentality and are now affiliating themselves with an agency who have been less than successful with other clubs. It's easy for you to say looking on as a none fan. And of course you are in a more informed position than the majority of us. I certainly don't think anyone should be berated for caring about their club.

As I said I shall have my fingers crossed that VH develop a genuine passion for the club as other rich owners have.

I realise your concerns, but the bottom line is the your current owners want to sell the club. An era is over.

In the time Rovers has been under Jack Walker's control my team has had about five owners...most of them garbage. So I know exactly what you are saying.

But that's what happens. People move out, people move in.

I just don't get the distrust of the VH mob. They CAN'T be planning to lose money or be a failure. It may work out that way, but frankly something needs to be done.

Remember it is the lack of funding that has put Rovers in trouble this season...and that's the fault of the current regime.

They probably needed to play down Kentaro involvement so as not to panic the Premier League n this one.

The Premier League met Kentaro at the same time as they met VH Group.

I must have written that one here about five times.

Very interesting post.

This clearly implies that Venkys Kentaro is NOT the best deal for the Trustees financially.

No, it's not.

Think that one through.

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I just don't get the distrust of the VH mob. They CAN'T be planning to lose money or be a failure.

And this is the attitude I don't get from some people. I am sure these guys would happily lose money on Rovers if it boosted their overall group revenue. I don't think they want to lose money on Rovers, but let's remember what their core business is at the end of the day, something that they have spent 30 years building.

There are plenty of examples of businesses which might run at a loss on one division on the basis that the overall profit is increased in other areas. Examples include cities which host Olympic Games, Formula One teams, Microsoft and Sony selling their video game consoles at a loss but making high margins on the games.

I realise that the owners want to sell, that doesn't mean I need to welcome who they have chosen as the buyer.

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1) we only have nicko's account of this meeting- the man who has only spoken to Kentaro people twice and that was over ten years ago.

SOME OF US HAVE GOOD CONTACTS.

2) the versions of this arrangement are strikingly different if you compare and contrast what Mrs Dessai says and what nicko says.

I'M NOT BOTHERED ABOUT WHAT MRS DESAI HAS OR HAS NOT SAID. THERE IS A TIE-UP. IT IS EASY TO FIND OUT IF YOU BOTHER CHECKING.

3) we have seen no pictures of these people being at Anfield last week

AND?

4) we have seen no pictures of Venkys Kentaro and Rovers Directors or John Williams in the same frame at Ewood yesterday.

PERHAPS YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN AT THE GAME AND WATCHED THEIR EVERY MOVE.

If Kentaro were at the Premier League meeting on Directors and Owners, presumably that means they are going to have either an ownership stake in Rovers or are going to be Directors....

OR MAYBE THEY WERE CLEARING UP THE RULES ABOUT THEIR INVOLVEMENT...

Nicko himself said that Dan Williams Group had offered £40m and more some two years ago yet the reported sale price which four groups have met is £25m.

The price - three years ago - was £40 million to the Trustees and then picking up the debt - which was around £20-odd million.

The asking price has gone downsince because the Trustees want rid more than ever, as I pointed out many times before but you refused to accept despite your 'inside' contacts.

The debt went down because the manager was starved of cash in the last window...

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I realise your concerns, but the bottom line is the your current owners want to sell the club. An era is over.

The Premier League met Kentaro at the same time as they met VH Group.

I must have written that one here about five times.

You will probably have to write it another 5 times before the takeover is completed!!! :lol::lol:

And The Premier League is happy with them!!!

Very true that the current owners want to sell us and think that VH Group are the best people to buy us and move us forward has a club and invest in the tea to make us better and move up the league.

Nicko, Is John Williams and David Brown, the men who has been leading the Negoiations with the takeover groups? If not, then who has?

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Nicko, Is John Williams and David Brown, the men who has been leading the Negoiations with the takeover groups? If not, then who has?

I would presume so. This has been going on for some time, so I take it all of the parties have met each other - and more than once.

It makes me howl. The four guys came to the game yesterday, were clearly in the posh suites and sat in a very privileged seat in the ground. How did they get there unless relations are good between the parties.

It also makes me cringe to see so many side issues being debated when there are REAL issues to address here.

1...what is going to happen with the manager.

2...what players are going to come in.

3...have the VH Group done their calculations if it all goes wrong and Rovers go down.

Now THOSE are the subjects that matter.

It's about action and not words.

so nicko is everything still on schedule to be completed with these guys or any chance one of the other parties may sneak it?

Would you say its days rather than weeks now?

The people I spoke to yesterday were talking about what the takeover would mean 'when' it happened...not many 'ifs' about.

You would hope it was quick, so that minds can be focussed on the real here-and-now issues.

I leave timing to laywers...and they do charge by the hour.

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I dont profess to know too much about Venkys or indeed any other bidder in this takeover saga, I will say this though and please despite people posting their objections to the sale, please let common sense prevail.

Here we have prospective owners, prepared to invest 46 million pounds in our football club, purely for advertising some have said, Ok, lets go along with that, advertising, marketing etc go hand in hand with success, without success, attendances suffer, advertising and sposorship become less attractive and the 46 million becomes closer to 25 million, the only way this will work is for the brand to be in the public eye as much and as regularly as possible, thats why the shirt sponsorship is greater with the top clubs.

Taking these matters into consideration, Venkys and anyone else invoved in this takeover deal, must have some kind of serious business plan to take Rovers forward, Rothschilds, the Trustess and the Premier League must have seen something here to be comfortable with the situation.

Finally, I do know with 100% certainty, and this came in a conversation I had many years ago with Jack Walker, despite his investment, the club had to be self financing, there would never ever (whoever owned the club)be a bottomless pit of money to keep throwing at the club.

So with this in mind, it does seem that advertising and marketing through the Rovers would indeed be a partnership for both parties, if this is to work, both Rovers and Venkys would benefit greatly, hopefrully giving the club success and continuity as a self funding

club. That is something even Man U cant acheive!!

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I would presume so. This has been going on for some time, so I take it all of the parties have met each other - and more than once.

It makes me howl. The four guys came to the game yesterday, were clearly in the posh suites and sat in a very privileged seat in the ground. How did they get there unless relations are good between the parties.

It also makes me cringe to see so many side issues being debated when there are REAL issues to address here.

1...what is going to happen with the manager.

2...what players are going to come in.

3...have the VH Group done their calculations if it all goes wrong and Rovers go down.

Now THOSE are the subjects that matter.

It's about action and not words.

The people I spoke to yesterday were talking about what the takeover would mean 'when' it happened...not many 'ifs' about.

You would hope it was quick, so that minds can be focussed on the real here-and-now issues.

I leave timing to laywers...and they do charge by the hour.

Thanks Nicko

So the new owners are thinking of changing manager then. I personally wouldn't bevause he's a very good manager and with abit of money we could be a top 8 side!

WHO DO THEY WANT HAS MANAGER? FOREIGN MANAGER?

I think we need 2 players in January, a striker and midfield goalscorer. then THE SUMMER get rid of Grella, Andrews, Roberts, Chimbonda. Then a sign new right back, Defensive midfield player and 2 strikers! maybe a winger like bentley or swp!!!

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Thanks Nicko

So the new owners are thinking of changing manager then. I personally wouldn't bevause he's a very good manager and with abit of money we could be a top 8 side!

I believe it is an ISSUE, not a fact.

That was what I pointed out last Sunday and Monday.

All new owners have their own ideas. All agents have their favourites. So it's a double hurdle for Big Sam with this one.

That sparked some hysteria - and I know the manager wants to know where he stands.

It would be a very fair question for him to ask.

And the answer is a hard one because this is a difficult time of the season to make a change.

Let's face it, it's easy to sack a boss...it is much harder to find a replacement.

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It won't be the onwers wanting to change managers, it will be their advisers likely to influence the process and coming up with suggestions.

Remember Venky's know FA about football, or would struggle themselves to name another football manager.

Agents will have their say - I said it on another thread, a Sven type character would probably be lined up, that's the way it usually works.

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Im not having a go at you at all im just trying to highlight some points being made without any facts behind them. I do have some links to these people(I did mention Balajis name as being the head football person first about 2 weeks ago) and I can tell you half of what you are writing is nonsense.

I'm glad to hear that. I hope that I'm totally wrong on everything. I've never wanted to be proved wrong more than on this occasion.

You are so stupid it actually annoys me.

I'd have gone with 'Your views are so s**t it's unbelievable.' Thanks for trying though.

I can't speak for anyone else but the reason I've criticised Philip,not you as I recall, is that you peddle hype masquerading as fact. Moreover you think your input should have special consideration because you say you have inside knowledge and in Philip's case implied inside knowledge plus financial expertise, experience and acumen. Yet mysteriously, you get it all wrong. Your points 1 to 6 are presented as fact whereas they are actually your overblown opinions. And they are ludicrously simplistic.

Why am I looking forward to a takeover (one approved by the Trust by the way) is that I want to see an end to the uncertainty and the selling off of the club's assets without adequate replacement. I don't want to see another summer transfer window where little or no money is available even though everyone knows we needed strengthening in key areas. I love the club at least as much as you and resent the implication that you and Philip care about Rovers and someone like me doesn't.

Weren't you the one who kept giving us updates that it was all going to be very exciting , it was all happening and soon and we should just be patient? Or was that someone else?

Anyway i've fed up with all the delays and sliding down the table, I'm looking onward and upward. And don't tell me my opinion isn't worth at least as much as your's.

47er. Firstly, yes I was the one stating that it was all going to be very exciting. The information that was coming out at the time was very exciting. There is still information not come out about who the 'mystery bidder' was. He's not Indian for a start so it was fun to see him constantly described as a 'Mystery Indian'.

You managed to write 'see and end to the uncertainty' without even a hint of irony. I'm very impressed with that. Also, under the Kentaro model that Nicko has outlined, wouldn't that be what the club was all about - selling off assets without adequate replacement?

Your points are well made BPF but, with all due respect, they could apply to anyone who buys the club - VH, Syed, Shah or any of the mystery buyers that have been talked about over the past few months.

Once the Trust decided that they didn't want to remain in control of the club and put it on the open market we became a commodity that someone could buy for their own purposes.

You said that you believed that the Trust was prepared to invest £5 million in January but I would ask why that wasn't made available to the manager in the summer when he needed it!

I'm not particularly happy about the takeover and can't say that I find VH, Syed or Shah convincing as possible owners of this club - although I admit that this is based purely on what I have read in the press. However, those handling the takeover have had access to documentation of all the bidders and have clearly opted for VH as the bid that they feel best for the club.

What I would ask of you BPF is a simple question. If the bid is so bad for the club why are the Trust going along with it? Are you implying that the Trust are going to take the money and run? I must admit that this is not the impression that I have gained over the way the sale has been handled. After the amount of time spent on this I would assume that the Trust have thoroughly investigated potential buyers and clearly there are reasons why they have opted for the VH bid.

Hi Parson, thank you for your post.

My biggest fear comes out of having worked with people who can 'talk the talk'.

I fear that Kentaro have talked VH into committing themselves to this with a 'We'll handle everything, you just enjoy the exposure it will create for VH.' They've then created a plan to impress the Trustees with and everything looks rosy. My worry is mixed interests. Under VH ownership it would be like this:

VH - Interested in Exposure

Kentaro - Interested in showcasing their talent

Blackburn Rovers - Looking to do well in the league.

I just hope that VH haven't been sweet talked into a deal they have failed to grasp the enormity of.

Another thing is that doesn't Kentaro 'working closely' with VH without anyone in between them suggest that they are going to be easily dictate the amount of money their players get, essentially deciding to take vast sums from the club in commissions?

A quick message to my beloved Chaddy. I admire your positive outlook and hatred of moaning, really I do. In this case though, being positive before we know the full facts is a dangerous game. If a man wearing a suit came up to you in the street and offered you £2000, would you take it? Is it genuinely free money or have you just walked into a dodgy high interest loan?

Finally, I want to apologise. My post last night suggested that I am more loyal to this team than some of you. This isn't true and I'm sorry for suggesting that. Until I am in possession of the facts and the plan for the future I will be hostile about this takeover. You have my word that I'm praying and hoping I can do a 360 on this.

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I don't want to double post but I think that this belongs here:

It really confuses me as to why people continue to ask why individuals like Philip and myself are questioning this takeover.

I'm honestly beginning to question whether you feel the same way about the club as I do.

You're willing to:

1. Have owners that know NOTHING about football.

2. A TOTALLY uncertain future (regardless of what people say, we won't go down this season and the Trustees would make money available if needed..)

3. Renaming of the stadium

4. The removal of everything that is Blackburn Rovers.

5. Operate purely for the purpose of advertising.

6. Have Blackburn Rovers used in anyway that VH see fit to enhance their bank balance.

For FIVE MILLION pounds in January. I have it on very good authority that this was the amount the Trustees were going to release in January anyway!

To be changing the way the club operates, I want to see a little more on offer.

Involvement with Kentaro is dangerous, make no mistake about it. It amused me that Roberto mentioned 'Surely Kentaro will just be offering your club players.' Once VH get their hands on this club, they will be the only ones between Kentaro and the first team. This is too scary to contemplate. They have already showed what they can do at City! If it wasn't for them being extremely fortunate they would be sharing a position with Portsmouth now.

I was sat at Ewood today looking up at the prospective new owners and all I felt was depressed. A family, small town and loved club is about to become a living and breathing advertisement for battery chicken farming. I'm over the moon about that.

An open question to the board (Chaddy in particular):

Why are you looking forward to this deal being completed?

As you've posted here too.I'll add the reply I gave you on the other thread;

Why are some of us looking forward to this deal being completed?

Because frankly,we're currently suffering death by a thousand cuts.In our current state we have a couple of years left in the Premiership at best.

I for one,and I know many others agree,don't believe your guff about the Trust being about to invest £5m in Januauary..it's all smoke and hot air..we've heard it all before.

I do wonder if a big part of the responses of people like yourself and Philip is essentially down to something as simple as Imy was suggesting..a fear of change.

This is going to happen BPF..Syed ultimately failed the tyre-kicker test for whatever reason,get over it.How about starting to put some of the effort you're investing in scaremongering into thinking how we might get this to work for the club we all love??

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As you've posted here too.I'll add the reply I gave you on the other thread;

Why are some of us looking forward to this deal being completed?

Because frankly,we're currently suffering death by a thousand cuts.In our current state we have a couple of years left in the Premiership at best.

I for one,and I know many others agree,don't believe your guff about the Trust being about to invest £5m in Januauary..it's all smoke and hot air..we've heard it all before.

I do wonder if a big part of the responses of people like yourself and Philip is essentially down to something as simple as Imy was suggesting..a fear of change.

This is going to happen BPF..Syed ultimately failed the tyre-kicker test for whatever reason,get over it.How about starting to put some of the effort you're investing in scaremongering into thinking how we might get this to work for the club we all love??

Hi Yeti-dog.

Firstly, there was going to be money made available in January, there was none / very little made available in the summer because the Trustees became confident of a sale. I think even Nicko would back me up on that one.

Secondly, my fears are not through not wanting change or through being pro Syed. However, in regards to Syed, you were all over him because of a small CCJ but with Venkys, possessing far less money than the Walker family seems to not matter at all.

It's not my job to to think about how to get this to work for the club. That is going to be Kentaro's job. Based on their record, isn't that a little bit scary?

I'm thinking that Manchester City (Before their saviour came along) and Portsmouth are wishing that there was a few more 'scaremongering fools.'

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I don't want to double post but I think that this belongs here:

It really confuses me as to why people continue to ask why individuals like Philip and myself are questioning this takeover.

I'm honestly beginning to question whether you feel the same way about the club as I do.

You're willing to:

1. Have owners that know NOTHING about football.

2. A TOTALLY uncertain future (regardless of what people say, we won't go down this season and the Trustees would make money available if needed..)

3. Renaming of the stadium

4. The removal of everything that is Blackburn Rovers.

5. Operate purely for the purpose of advertising.

6. Have Blackburn Rovers used in anyway that VH see fit to enhance their bank balance.

For FIVE MILLION pounds in January. I have it on very good authority that this was the amount the Trustees were going to release in January anyway!

To be changing the way the club operates, I want to see a little more on offer.

Involvement with Kentaro is dangerous, make no mistake about it. It amused me that Roberto mentioned 'Surely Kentaro will just be offering your club players.' Once VH get their hands on this club, they will be the only ones between Kentaro and the first team. This is too scary to contemplate. They have already showed what they can do at City! If it wasn't for them being extremely fortunate they would be sharing a position with Portsmouth now.

I was sat at Ewood today looking up at the prospective new owners and all I felt was depressed. A family, small town and loved club is about to become a living and breathing advertisement for battery chicken farming. I'm over the moon about that.

An open question to the board (Chaddy in particular):

Why are you looking forward to this deal being completed?

The reason you and Philip have lost credibility is that you were not willing to ask those questions about the Syed bid. Venkys at least seem to be upfont and honest unlike Syed who has made some huge promises, flashed his cash around and set unrealistic targets. You both seem unwilling to scrutinise the Syed bid as harshly as the Venky bid so its hard to take you both serously now.

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