[Archived] Rovers Takeover: End game ?

[BPF]

The reason you and Philip have lost credibility is that you were not willing to ask those questions about the Syed bid. Venkys at least seem to be upfont and honest unlike Syed who has made some huge promises, flashed his cash around and set unrealistic targets. You both seem unwilling to scrutinise the Syed bid as harshly as the Venky bid so its hard to take you both serously now.

The reasons that we didn't ask the questions at the time were:

1. We gained information proving that he had the money he said he had.

2. WGA's PR department and other sources were providing us with good information.

Other than finding a CCJ and an obviously faked messy flat, we couldn't find anything else worrying about him.

The difference between Syed and VH is that Syed could afford to blow an amount of cash that would bankrupt VH.

What if this doesn't work out well for VH? What if there is no real increased and SUSTAINED exposure in India. When Kentaro's sweet talk turns out to be false, that's the scary thing. I'm not suggesting that we stay with the Walkers, everyone knows that they want rid of us and that is fine, but the one thing that we have always known is that they would not let the club get in real trouble financially or otherwise. VH cannot afford to bail us out if everything goes wrong.

[SouthAussieRover]

PhilipL, why do you keep referring to what Cheshire Blue has posted? I'm not aware of any posts said poster has made for at least two years.

[nicko]

The reasons that we didn't ask the questions at the time were:

1. We gained information proving that he had the money he said he had.

2. WGA's PR department and other sources were providing us with good information.

How very revealing.

Thanks for coming out of the closet.

[chaddyrovers]

with the new rules coming in from uefa about finances from 2012/13 it not going to matter how much money they got but how much money comes into the club from sponsorship and marketing.

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/aboutuefa/organisation/executivecommittee/news/newsid=886803.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/may/26/premier-league-uefa-financial-fair-play

[BPF]

How very revealing.

Thanks for coming out of the closet.

I aim to please

[nicko]

I aim to please

So, you found about Syed's finances...and his PR people kept saying how good he was.

Right.

I was wondering why you and the other chap were so pro-Syed.

[patrickvalery]

The reason you and Philip have lost credibility is that you were not willing to ask those questions about the Syed bid. Venkys at least seem to be upfont and honest unlike Syed who has made some huge promises, flashed his cash around and set unrealistic targets. You both seem unwilling to scrutinise the Syed bid as harshly as the Venky bid so its hard to take you both serously now.

I'm not sure that's entirely fair. BPF has explained his reasons for being a little cautious over the Venky's bid. For the most part they are well resoned and understandable. The Kentaro element doesn't sit easy with most because of a potential conflict of interest. However, as has (one for Chaddy!) been said, the VH Group are splashing £46m to buy us. Unless they are complete no hopers then they won't want Kentaro to ruin that investment.

It has been argued that Kentaro have attempted similar schemes in the past without any joy. Well, maybe they have realised the make up of such deals was always unlikely to happen. Maybe they have restructured the deal or their involvment this time. For all we know they may be employed by the VH group in an advisory role rather than in partnership? They are out to make money in which ever form it takes. The idea of having football agents advising the club can surely have upsides as well as downs. Media contacts in untapped regions being just one.

Until some really negative news comes out we should try to remain positive. Under our current owners we are dying a slow and painful death. Under a new regime we may follow suit, we may go out in a blaze of glory or we might just succeed. Who knows? The main concern thus far for me was the bank loan story. This has been denied and you would hope the trust had already investigated this anyway.

The main trouble with all of this is we have had our heads turned by the promise of Billions from other bids. Greed is a terrible thing. 12 months ago we would have been happy with modest investment in the squad. Now £5m is not enough.

[imy9]

Can we clarify this money thing with VH Group- again.

There is Venkys a company whose accounts you can check and then there is Hatcherys the business that we cannot see the side of because it is private.

Based on the Times of India report and a number of other sources they estimate the worth of VH Group to be above £500 million, the company has been going strong for 30 years, how much money do the individuals possess?, if we are going to speculate... average estimate of £10 million a year over 30 years is £300 million, so how anyone can/cannot say what could bankrupt them is ridiculous- we simply do not have the facts.

Syed on the other hand has a sum of £1 BILLION transfered into a company he creates, where did this come from? Who is he? Why has NO ONE heard of him or his family? Some very BASIC questions which were not put forward by a number of the key posters. VH Group are a well respected company I would sooner trust them than someone who talks a good game.

[sparkspakespoke]

The reasons that we didn't ask the questions at the time were:

1. We gained information proving that he had the money he said he had.

2. WGA's PR department and other sources were providing us with good information.

Other than finding a CCJ and an obviously faked messy flat, we couldn't find anything else worrying about him.

The difference between Syed and VH is that Syed could afford to blow an amount of cash that would bankrupt VH.

What if this doesn't work out well for VH? What if there is no real increased and SUSTAINED exposure in India. When Kentaro's sweet talk turns out to be false, that's the scary thing. I'm not suggesting that we stay with the Walkers, everyone knows that they want rid of us and that is fine, but the one thing that we have always known is that they would not let the club get in real trouble financially or otherwise. VH cannot afford to bail us out if everything goes wrong.

Okay I can understand that, but you are off target on this one believe me. Discount what his PR people told you and then ask yourself these questions:

Why, if he is a billionaire from old familly wealth as he states, could he not tie up a deal before the season started?

Why would the trust not go with his offer when he has bid more and pledged more funds than his rivals?

Why has he felt the need to releae details of his bid that are clearly deigned to excite the fans and distract people form scrutinising him?

You and Philp are bothinteligant guys, if you ask yourself those questions and snswer them without bois yu will relaise what some of us have known for a while.

[BPF]

So, you found about Syed's finances...and his PR people kept saying how good he was.

Right.

I was wondering why you and the other chap were so pro-Syed.

Hello Nicko,

Firstly, I watched a documentary on Jack Walker the other day and found your contributions both interesting and excellent so nice work on that one.

The point I was attempting to make was that the majority of the information we gathered was positive and it looked like it was going to happen. Looking back, I think that it was all a clever ploy to enhance his own name across the Western world (and Google).

I had no reason to doubt him as much as I do with VH / Kentaro though. There has been nothing to suggest so far that VH understand what they are getting themselves in for. Again, I'm not hoping that this bid will fail. All I'm saying is that I want to know what they are planning to do and what Kentaro's involvement is going to be before I welcome them with open arms.

[yeti-dog]

BPF,with respect,all the questions you continually ask about Venky's apply just as much,if not more so,to Syed.

He may have had money but something didn't sit right for the Trust.He had no history,and the more you looked,the more he seemed a triumph of style over substance.

My feeling on him is he would have been far more likely to have given us the immediate good times but ironically with a much bigger possibility of a Portsmouth-like end game.

[nicko]

The point I was attempting to make was that the majority of the information we gathered was positive and it looked like it was going to happen. Looking back, I think that it was all a clever ploy to enhance his own name across the Western world (and Google).

I had no reason to doubt him as much as I do with VH / Kentaro though. There has been nothing to suggest so far that VH understand what they are getting themselves in for. Again, I'm not hoping that this bid will fail. All I'm saying is that I want to know what they are planning to do and what Kentaro's involvement is going to be before I welcome them with open arms.

Fair play to you for checking him out - and for making contact with them. But perhaps, on reflection, that may have been suger-coated stuff.

Fair play to me for checking into VH and finding the link with Kentaro. I have no idea what their specific plan is...but I know Kentaro's past model that they wanted to use.

So, let the club decide whose money they want and why.

Somebody at the ground made a rather profound statement on this to me yesterday - Rovers don't really WANT someone with supposed huge cash and would rather have someone a bit smaller. It fits the way the club is.

I had not considered that angle but thought it was quite interesting. Most people seem comfortable with that profile. But nobody knows how it shakes down.

The questions about the playing and managing future are - for me - where the stories are at now.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

The questions about the playing and managing future are - for me - where the stories are at now.

Shah,

Syed, Shah,

Chicken, Shah, Syed

Interesting that the one constant is Shah...

Whomever is buying, it needs to be completed ASAP. The more it drags on, the mores sceptical people will become.

If the new investors have forced Sam to play a more footballing style ala yesterday, then at least that's one positive.

If we are given 5 or 10 million in January it should at least get us a couple of players (or one top striker) that will keep us up. That has to be the priority this season. Then we can relax and look forward to the summer transfer topic with more than a sheckle and a groat to spend on a mystery striker

[47er]

47er. Firstly, yes I was the one stating that it was all going to be very exciting. The information that was coming out at the time was very exciting. There is still information not come out about who the 'mystery bidder' was. He's not Indian for a start so it was fun to see him constantly described as a 'Mystery Indian'.

You managed to write 'see and end to the uncertainty' without even a hint of irony. I'm very impressed with that. Also, under the Kentaro model that Nicko has outlined, wouldn't that be what the club was all about - selling off assets without adequate replacement?

/quote]

Well I wondered why you and Philip were so gung-ho about Syed and Philip had jettisoned hie "stick with the Trust approach". A bit late but thanks for informing us.

The uncertainty I'm talking about is whether there will be a takeover soon or will we continue to struggle under the Trust? This has gone on far too long now. Nothing ironic there.

And the "Kentaro model" isn't written down like a constitution but I imagine it to be selling assets at their peak BUT ensuring decent replacements. At best a perpetual production line! Selling off assets WITHOUT adequate replacements has been the Rovers way all my life apart from a few years when Jack headed the club. But its reached such a peak in recent years that we are virtually bereft of creative talent.

And finally if the Trust heed your pleas and turn down the VH bid (which they won't) what then? What a great move that would be!

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Somebody at the ground made a rather profound statement on this to me yesterday - Rovers don't really WANT someone with supposed huge cash and would rather have someone a bit smaller. It fits the way the club is.

I had not considered that angle but thought it was quite interesting. Most people seem comfortable with that profile. But nobody knows how it shakes down.

Doesn't quite fit with Rovers in the 90's where jack Walker was probably the equivalent to Abramovich now...seem to recall those times fondly

[Mandrake]

Thank you Nicko for keeping, or atleast trying to keep this thread on a sensible level. Some people are just too stubborn to move on I guess.

Regarding Sam Allardyce, I do think the man is deserving of some time with an actual transfer budget. He has worked wonders with nothing, and people complaining about his playing style don't realize that you can't play a Playstation 3 game using a Nintendo 64 console.

He has made moves correctly when it comes to surviving, and achieving respectably, at almost no cost for the club. The man deserves a full season with money for his preferred targets...if that goes wrong, and the playstyle is no better...its time to move on.

Mandrake

[nicko]

Doesn't quite fit with Rovers in the 90's where jack Walker was probably the equivalent to Abramovich now...seem to recall those times fondly

Just count yourself lucky you had that time. Many never had it.

But it's gone.

These things go in cycles. I can remember Chelsea being skint and going to Blackburn as the poor relations. That changed too.

It's a fine balancing act. For all of Jack's wealth and intervention the club still got relegated while he was alive...so it wasn't all roses.

The bottom line then - as it is now - is that you have to spend your money wisely and have everybody pulling the same way.

[tashor]

If Kentaro were at the Premier League meeting on Directors and Owners, presumably that means they are going to have either an ownership stake in Rovers or are going to be Directors....

OR MAYBE THEY WERE CLEARING UP THE RULES ABOUT THEIR INVOLVEMENT...

As someone who knows nowt about what is going on apart from the great and the good on this thread it strikes me that this is the key issue here ..............

anyone got any inside info on this or do we great unwashed just have to wait for the real denouement..

[dave birch]

The questions about the playing and managing future are - for me - where the stories are at now.

The questions about the playing and managing future are - for me - where the worries are at now.

[Billy Castell]

Apologies if this has been reffered to before, but what was the past model? Something to do with Thakasin's reign at Man City wasn't it?

Well that was a mess, but then the Kentaro gang may have learnt from that.

[nicko]

Apologies if this has been reffered to before, but what was the past model? Something to do with Thakasin's reign at Man City wasn't it?

Well that was a mess, but then the Kentaro gang may have learnt from that.

The 'model' I was referring to was the plan to buy a club and put up-and-coming players in. This was suggested as part of a package to two other clubs I heard about in the last year or so.

The Man City thing was a totally different set of circumstances. Too much money to spend, too many bad players bought. It would be a total disaster to go down that road.

Shinawatra had his reasons for going into Man City - it would be unfair to put the VH people into his category in any shape or form.

I don't think VH have money to waste like Shinawatra. Which is a relief.

[OJRovers]

BPF when all this is over will you be revealling the info which makes you sure that Syed has the money he claims he has? Genuinely interested to see how he has been keeping 8bn (?) off the radar.

[Billy Castell]

Obviously the VH Group are not billionaires who have political corruption and human rights abuse allegations, and don't need to clean their money or hide it. If done correctly, the Kentaro connection could be good, but it can also be a complete mess. I like the idea of up-and-coming players being found, and then sold for loads of cash, as long as the manager has the final say, and non-Kentaro players are not turned away out of hand.

Are you free to mention who the other two clubs were Nicko?

[nicko]

Are you free to mention who the other two clubs were Nicko?

I only know of two...there might have been more as so many have been available lately.

It would be a bit wrong to mention them, but both were in the Championship.

No doubt that will give the SFC some more ammunition for the next few days.

[Bobby G]

Syed is in the billionaire category in terms of liquid cash. Not sure it hits the heights of 8 billion if we are assessing liquidity.