[Archived] Rovers Takeover: End game ?

[BuckyRover]

Yawn.

Wake me up on December 1st. I am still happy with the takeover. Good luck finding someone to buy Wigan Mr Whelan.

[Spansterkid]

There are umpteen different ways of measuring the value of a company. I don't know which VH Group have used themselves. What I do know is that VH Group value themselves at around £184m, and that the VH Group includes most of the private companies.

If you want a list of some of them included in the group....

Venkateshwara Hatcheries Private Limited - that's the biggest private one by the way.

Venky's (India) Limited

Venco Research & Breeding Farm Limited

Venkateshwara Research & Breeding Farm Limited

VJ Equipment Limited

VR Equipment Limited

Uttara Foods and Feeds Private Limited

Shivalik Hatcheries Limited

Eastern Hatcheries Limited

Venkateshwara Biosentry (India) Limited

BV Feed Supplements Manufacturing Company Limited

And if you don't believe me, how about Reuters? "The website of the Pune-headquartered company said its valuation was $300 million (189 million pounds)."

Reuters

[iamarover]

This is the only part of your post I don't like. What are you basing this on? That they can meet the purchase price of the club, despite us not knowing what the source of their funding is?

http://www.vivindia.nl/en/Bezoeker/News/~/media/vivindia/Files/Review%202010/INTERVIEW%20Ricky%20Tharper%20PFI.ashx

Gives an overview of the size of the market they operate in

And this gives a fairly common description of their dominance in that market.

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/poultrynews/20996/minister-celebrities-at-venkys-opening-in-bd

And some sort of valuation.

It's not the FT but private companies are difficult to value as you know. Cash liquidity is unknown which I presume is your issue. But I just have to assume they have lifted the bonnet for the trust to see real cash. I really hope so

[Kelbo]

£184m is huge by Indian standards, but not by Premier League standards.

No it is not, India boasts more Billionaires than most other countries

[Balwer]

http://www.vivindia.nl/en/Bezoeker/News/~/media/vivindia/Files/Review%202010/INTERVIEW%20Ricky%20Tharper%20PFI.ashx

Gives an overview of the size of the market they operate in

And this gives a fairly common description of their dominance in that market.

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/poultrynews/20996/minister-celebrities-at-venkys-opening-in-bd

And some sort of valuation.

It's not the FT but private companies are difficult to value as you know. Cash liquidity is unknown which I presume is your issue. But I just have to assume they have lifted the bonnet for the trust to see real cash. I really hope so

Yeah I am. We're all making the assumption that sales converts to profit which converts to cash. I really hope they've got the cash too, but it's an unknown at this point. Plenty of companies struggle with cash conversion even if they're very profitable, as a lot of the cash can be spent on investments (upkeep of factories and equipment, etc) and financing (payments to shareholders/bank interest and principal).

[gumboots]

Can I just say that barring any unforeseen info coming to light, it looks like this is going through. I don't understand any of the financial stuff and have no great desire to do so, butI hope if it is going through they get it done relatively soon. That way we can stop saying we shouldn't sell to them. I know it won't stop people whingeing and there are quite a few here I suspect will be delighted if they can say "I told you so" at some future date if it turns out this lot haven't got the money they need to invest, but at least we'll stop the silly idea that we as fans have any influence over what happens. If the Trust want to sell to this lot, they will. They're not driven by sentimentality but by what seems a good deal to them as a business. We care, of course we do, but caring changes nothing.

[Spansterkid]

Only one method???!!

What about....

Entry cost valuation method

Discounted cash flow valuation method

Asset based valuation method

Industy valuation method

Balance sheet method

Profit based valuation method

Rule of thumb method

Comparable sales method

Capitalisation of future maintainable earnings method

Assets valued by the going concern value method

I could go on...

[Balwer]

Can I just say that barring any unforeseen info coming to light, it looks like this is going through. I don't understand any of the financial stuff and have no great desire to do so, butI hope if it is going through they get it done relatively soon. That way we can stop saying we shouldn't sell to them. I know it won't stop people whingeing and there are quite a few here I suspect will be delighted if they can say "I told you so" at some future date if it turns out this lot haven't got the money they need to invest, but at least we'll stop the silly idea that we as fans have any influence over what happens. If the Trust want to sell to this lot, they will. They're not driven by sentimentality but by what seems a good deal to them as a business. We care, of course we do, but caring changes nothing.

I see. In the same way we have no influence of the performance on the pitch, should we also shut down the match threads?

[gumboots]

I see. In the same way we have no influence of the performance on the pitch, should we also shut down the match threads?

Where did I suggest shutting anything down? And at least the match threads are about things that have actually happened. I have no problems with discussing events, but it seems that here so much is about having a go at others and regurgitating the same non-information. I won't have a problem if we get a "how do you think the new owners are doing?" thread if/when they take over, because at least that will be based on something. I'm just tired of going round and round in circles and would welcome something actually happening. It's not that we can't have opinions, but we must be aware that unless something disastrous happens, they won't be taken into account in the majority of situations.

[iamarover]

Yeah I am. We're all making the assumption that sales converts to profit which converts to cash. I really hope they've got the cash too, but it's an unknown at this point. Plenty of companies struggle with cash conversion even if they're very profitable, as a lot of the cash can be spent on investments (upkeep of factories and equipment, etc) and financing (payments to shareholders/bank interest and principal).

Yes ok I will go with you on that. Nowt to do but pose the question I suppose. And trust that those who can, are doing so.

[Balwer]

Where did I suggest shutting anything down? And at least the match threads are about things that have actually happened. I have no problems with discussing events, but it seems that here so much is about having a go at others and regurgitating the same non-information. I won't have a problem if we get a "how do you think the new owners are doing?" thread if/when they take over, because at least that will be based on something. I'm just tired of going round and round in circles and would welcome something actually happening. It's not that we can't have opinions, but we must be aware that unless something disastrous happens, they won't be taken into account in the majority of situations.

My point was that we discuss things we can't change in the match threads as well, so what's wrong with doing it here? I don't think anyone seriously believes there will be a groundswell of popularity one way or the other that could influence the takeover, but I don't see the harm in exchanging views in the meantime. Sure it becomes a bit heated at times, and sure it can be stale too, but the same can be said of most other threads, and if someone doesn't like what's being said they shouldn't feel obliged to read and/or reply.

[iamarover]

Only one method???!!

What about....

Entry cost valuation method

Discounted cash flow valuation method

Asset based valuation method

Industy valuation method

Balance sheet method

Profit based valuation method

Rule of thumb method

Comparable sales method

Capitalisation of future maintainable earnings method

Assets valued by the going concern value method

Oh whatever way, you clearly can't count. Nor understand business. A + $500m concern is more than capable of mounting a takeover - provided they have a plan. Balwer's point on liquidity is a fair one and presumably answered in private by the Trust. You are..well..pointless.

I could go on...

[Spansterkid]

[

Nice editing iamarover, it's almost as if you never claimed that there is only one accounting method for valuing a company

Why remove your previous two posts?

You have exposed yourself as having absolutely zero knowledge of accounting methods

[Roost]

Only one method???!!

What about....

Entry cost valuation method

Discounted cash flow valuation method

Asset based valuation method

Industy valuation method

Balance sheet method

Profit based valuation method

Rule of thumb method

Comparable sales method

Capitalisation of future maintainable earnings method

Assets valued by the going concern value method

I could go on...

Dont..............

[Hughesy]

Lets keep things simple....

If you where only 'worth' £184m, would you spend £40-50m on a football club??

[BuckyRover]

Which accounting body are you a member of?

CIMA/ACCA etc.

[Spansterkid]

Lets keep things simple....

If you where only 'worth' £184m, would you spend £40-50m on a football club??

I wouldn't, but they say Mike Ashley's worth £700m and he's spent £258m of that on Newcastle.

[Balwer]

Lets keep things simple....

If you where only 'worth' £184m, would you spend £40-50m on a football club??

Sure, if you genuinely believe that you are going to make money out of it.

[imy9]

I wouldn't, but they say Mike Ashley's worth £700m and he's spent £258m of that on Newcastle.

Apart from VH Group which is the listed company and valued at 1300 crore they also have the Hatchery which is private, huge and has been around for 30 years- as the individuals are investing in Rovers how much money do they have in their accounts?, they also have a film company and an investment in Hindustan Construction worth 12% (the total investment in this 40,000 crore- leave you to do the math , those are two that I know about, am sure there'll be more. Interestingly Venkateshwara Hatcheries own 12% not VH Group.

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/hindustan-construction-co-to-complete-lavasa-ahead-of-schedule/431824/

[Balwer]

Apart from VH Group which is the listed company and valued at 1300 crore they also have the Hatchery which is private, huge and has been around for 30 years- as the individuals are investing in Rovers how much money do they have in their accounts?, they also have a film company and an investment in Hindustan Construction worth 12% (the total investment in this 40,000 crore- leave you to do the math , those are two that I know about, am sure there'll be more. Interestingly Venkateshwara Hatcheries own 12% not VH Group.

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/hindustan-construction-co-to-complete-lavasa-ahead-of-schedule/431824/

1. Venkys (India) Ltd is the listed entity and primary revenue generator, not VH Group

2. VH Group is the same company as Venkateshwara Hatcheries

3. VH is a holding company, meaning that all its revenue is generated through the companies it has a shareholding in

4. The amount of time a company has been in business is not directly related to its current profitabilty in any way. As a reference point Enron was founded in 1932, while facebook began in 2005.

5. There are so many errors with your HCC stuff I will go by sub point in case I miss something

5.1 VH own 12% of the Lavasa Corporation, not 12% of HCC, this relates to the project itself, not the construction company

5.2 VH do not appear to own any of the construction company by all accounts

5.3 The 40,000 Crore project you reference is Gujarat, a separate venture that HCC is undertaking

5.4 Three banks together own 4.5% of Lavasa for around a 450 Crore investment, so we can guess that VH's 12% cost them 1200 Crore

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just read the article you posted very quickly

[Blueboy Downunder]

i am still trying to figure out and understand the wealth of this mob. as i understand it they are apparently worth 13 billion pounds.

[Spansterkid]

1. Venkys (India) Ltd is the listed entity and primary revenue generator, not VH Group

2. VH Group is the same company as Venkateshwara Hatcheries

3. VH is a holding company, meaning that all its revenue is generated through the companies it has a shareholding in

4. The amount of time a company has been in business is not directly related to its current profitabilty in any way. As a reference point Enron was founded in 1932, while facebook began in 2005.

5. There are so many errors with your HCC stuff I will go by sub point in case I miss something

5.1 VH own 12% of the Lavasa Corporation, not 12% of HCC, this relates to the project itself, not the construction company

5.2 VH do not appear to own any of the construction company by all accounts

5.3 The 40,000 Crore project you reference is Gujarat, a separate venture that HCC is undertaking

5.4 Three banks together own 4.5% of Lavasa for around a 450 Crore investment, so we can guess that VH's 12% cost them 1200 Crore

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just read the article you posted very quickly

Another thing with the Lavasa project is that they are still seeking investors and haven't got anywhere near the 40,000 crore yet. So whilst VH group might have 12% of the total investment so far that doesn't mean they have invested 12% of 40,000 crore.

Lavasa is being funded on an equity-basis (there are those magic words again) so new investors that come along get shares in Lavasa and as a result the percentage of Lavasa that VH Group own will go down.

It's hard to say how much they've invested in Lavasa.

[yeti-dog]

Only one method???!!

What about....

Entry cost valuation method

Discounted cash flow valuation method

Asset based valuation method

Industy valuation method

Balance sheet method

Profit based valuation method

Rule of thumb method

Comparable sales method

Capitalisation of future maintainable earnings method

Assets valued by the going concern value method

I could go on...

Spansterkid...you're boring me know.

You're like the annoying know-it-all kid at school who won't let it go.

Frankly,if the Trust haven't fully explored the issue you keep banging on about they want shooting.

I think it's time to accept this is a done-deal.

Maybe you could utilise your investigative prowess in a more constuctive area eg,how you think we might make this work for club...

[Spansterkid]

Spansterkid...you're boring me know.

You're like the annoying know-it-all kid at school who won't let it go.

Frankly,if the Trust haven't fully explored the issue you keep banging on about they want shooting.

I think it's time to accept this is a done-deal.

Maybe you could utilise your investigative prowess in a more constuctive area eg,how you think we might make this work for club...

That post does look annoying now, mainly because iamarover removed the posts that it was made in response to in order to cover up his error.

OK, second thoughts... it was annoying and boring anyway. Sorry

[yeti-dog]

No worries..

I do get that you've raised a valid issue ages ago reference the financial wherewithal of Venky's and that if it does ultimately go pear-shaped you,Philip,BPF and a few others will be able to crow 'told you so',but I really think that,for now, we need to start looking towards the future as optimistically as we're able to.

Too much glass half-empty stuff gets wearisome after a while...