[Archived] Rovers Takeover: End game ?

[imy9]

I did read through the document quickly so apologise for the errors and am not a financial person! but your estimate of 12% worth about 1200 Crore nearly as much their entire group worth, supports the point that I was making that they have lots of projects out there and they are clearly worth more than 186 million!

[chaddyrovers]

No worries..

I do get that you've raised a valid issue ages ago reference the financial wherewithal of Venky's and that if it does ultimately go pear-shaped you,Philip,BPF and a few others will be able to crow 'told you so',but I really think that,for now, we need to start looking towards the future as optimistically as we're able to.

Too much glass half-empty stuff gets wearisome after a while...

I agree with that. Time to start looking optimistic about the takeover with abit of caution UNTIL we know their plans for the club short and long term. Time to start looking at the glass half-full instead of half empty.

[Spansterkid]

No worries..

I do get that you've raised a valid issue ages ago reference the financial wherewithal of Venky's and that if it does ultimately go pear-shaped you,Philip,BPF and a few others will be able to crow 'told you so',but I really think that,for now, we need to start looking towards the future as optimistically as we're able to.

Too much glass half-empty stuff gets wearisome after a while...

Fair enough, I'm gonna give it a rest now. Let's hope it all pans out beautifully. I'm off to the match soon. Now, if I could only find my decent glasses I might have a hope of being able to see Robbo when he's in the goal nearest to the away end!

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Is it worth gambling the whole future of Rovers on an untried business plan?

I was under the impression this was the job of the trust to prevent this...then WHY are they taking an unnecessary gamble with our club?.

I may be wrong and I hope to god I am but I have a feeling that JW et al have been told by the Walker family to get sold,we want rid now,to anyone,or else.

A Bewildered and frustrated SG194

The main opening statement (see below) from our prospective new owner, Anuradha Desai, is hardly one for any of us to get too excited about.

"I feel that the Venky's brand will get an immediate recognition if we take over this club, and that is the main reason why we are doing this"

Pffftttt!!!!

We are going to be very second best in this deal as I have feared from day one.

[chocky]

No worries..

I do get that you've raised a valid issue ages ago reference the financial wherewithal of Venky's and that if it does ultimately go pear-shaped you,Philip,BPF and a few others will be able to crow 'told you so',but I really think that,for now, we need to start looking towards the future as optimistically as we're able to.

Too much glass half-empty stuff gets wearisome after a while...

You'll find the people who will say "I told you so" have made sure that they have allowed for both eventualities to prove themselves right. If it is prooved that Venky's have billions and make us a success they will say they said that. If it turns out they haven't got a pot to ###### in or a window to throw it out of they will say they told us that as well.

[yeti-dog]

You'll find the people who will say "I told you so" have made sure that they have allowed for both eventualities to prove themselves right. If it is prooved that Venky's have billions and make us a success they will say they said that. If it turns out they haven't got a pot to ###### in or a window to throw it out of they will say they told us that as well.

Fair point Chocky.

There is a sense of the smart@arsed politician about some of the doom merchants.

[thenodrog]

Secondly we need to ignore the 'local' mill owner whine of Whelan. All that went with nostalgic wishes for Number 9s that got on the tram to the game with fans. We take global cash..so we shouldnt baulk at global ownership.

The chinese venerate older people. They understand the difference between intelligence and wisdom.

Too much glass half-empty stuff gets wearisome after a while...

I rem there were plenty of half full to full glasses raised to greet Paul Ince.

[Balwer]

You'll find the people who will say "I told you so" have made sure that they have allowed for both eventualities to prove themselves right. If it is prooved that Venky's have billions and make us a success they will say they said that. If it turns out they haven't got a pot to ###### in or a window to throw it out of they will say they told us that as well.

If it is proved Venkys have billions I am happy to go on record as saying that my assessment based on the information provided to date was wrong. There is also the possibility that they make us billions because the financial model they plan on employing is strong, making their initial 'worth' largely irrelevant, but I haven't made a comment either way on that.

If they do turn out to be struggling to fund this deal for whatever reason and it hurts us financially then what would it achieve to laud it over our fellow posters when the result means our beloved club is damaged in the process? I don't see why people who are skeptical of the deal don't have the club's best interests at heart.

You are welcome to bookmark this post in case you need to prove a point later on.

[yeti-dog]

The chinese venerate older people. They understand the difference between intelligence and wisdom.

I rem there were plenty of half full to full glasses raised to greet Paul Ince.

I always had my hand over my glass regarding Ince,but back in the here & now,there aren't always guarantees in life as you well know.

Maybe it's time to take a leap of faith rather than being a harbinger of doom???

[daveoftherovers]

And meanwhile, Bolton are £96 Million in debt! But accoring to Gartside, they're fine and they are not a selling club, They "Trade" FFS???!!!

[BPF]

No worries..

I do get that you've raised a valid issue ages ago reference the financial wherewithal of Venky's and that if it does ultimately go pear-shaped you,Philip,BPF and a few others will be able to crow 'told you so',but I really think that,for now, we need to start looking towards the future as optimistically as we're able to.

Too much glass half-empty stuff gets wearisome after a while...

I can assure you that I will not say that. If that was to happen, I can assure you that I would be just as devastated as everyone else.

I'm not against this takeover. My point has always been that you can't be fully against this or fully for it, until we know the facts.

Those of you being overly optimistic, need your heads testing. If you were selling your car, would you hand the keys over to the first person who showed up and let them go for a 'test drive'?

Am I prepared to let Ewood's name be changed for £5m a year? No. Am I mad about this? No, because nothing has happened yet. Anything that has come from VH has been a PR disaster followed by a PR cover up, there is nothing factual in anything we have heard thus far. At this stage the only emotion you should be feeling is to be cautiously hopeful.

[chocky]

If it is proved Venkys have billions I am happy to go on record as saying that my assessment based on the information provided to date was wrong. There is also the possibility that they make us billions because the financial model they plan on employing is strong, making their initial 'worth' largely irrelevant, but I haven't made a comment either way on that.

If they do turn out to be struggling to fund this deal for whatever reason and it hurts us financially then what would it achieve to laud it over our fellow posters when the result means our beloved club is damaged in the process? I don't see why people who are skeptical of the deal don't have the club's best interests at heart.

You are welcome to bookmark this post in case you need to prove a point later on.

I don't remember mentioning anyone. We don't know all the facts and we won't untill Venky's make a statment.

[47er]

That would imply your primary concern was to satisfy the club's fan base rather than your wider business interests. It would also make you a pretty poor businessman if you let your moods dictate your business decisions. Haven't seen the Glazers spit the dummy yet have you?

I don't think the Glazers care too much about the fans either way do they? Hardly a great example to put up.

[koi]

And meanwhile, Bolton are £96 Million in debt! But accoring to Gartside, they're fine and they are not a selling club, They "Trade" FFS???!!!

Out of interest, what form is their debt?

[47er]

You are mixing all your apples and pears and coming out with prune juice. A company is usually 'valued' at its ratio of profits v a multiple. Venky's is trading at around 9 or 10. Some analyst bloggers therefore value quoted company at around half of your quoted figure.

http://www.gauravblog.com/?tag=venkateshwara-hatcheries-group-buys-out-blackburn-rover

The central point though is that most of the VH Group is private. The 45 million valuation relates only to the smallish plc. This guy has made his estimate;, around 5 times the value of the company sits off the balance sheet.

This tiny wheat company for example isnt quoted but sees itself as being part of a 'USD500m' holding company

http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/218366675/Venky_s_Whole_Wheat_Chakki_Fresh.html

Trawl the Internet and there are dozens of Venky investments, property deals, private investments and the like under various (probably deliberately) confusingly plentiful umbrellas. With no disclosure they can take as much or as little cash out of their businesses as they like without telling nosy buggers like me how much. Not so with their plc which is the only one in the very public eye. In the end though once you have gone past a threshold where you can guarantee the cash paid, it doesnt really matter. The size of your current valuation doesnt indicate how much the owner will actually put in. Whether they borrow off banks offering historically low interest rates, or fund it elsewhere, doesnt really matter. In the end a business plan demands return. So:

There are 3 things a future owner needs

1. Cash. They have this.

2. A plan. A plan to get most or all of their money back. They seem to have this. Whatever you think of the Asia Marketing and Ajax-type young player production line, it is the only credible one I have heard outside of the Trust's 'Put Nothing In, Take Nothing Out' strategy which followed their early largesse.

3. Probity. They might have this. They might not. I pray to Ganesha they do. If they don't, the Trust will have betrayed its duty. £100m Trust donation isnt enough for folk on here to win their thanks. Well they have mine. But if they havent called this right then the club faces oblivion. Paul M is right to call for fans trying to make owners accountable but I am just not sure how we do it, short of a public inquisition.

If fans on here have a role then we need to avoid the obvious distractions of cash/loans/net worth. The public evidence stacks up, the private evidence is seen only by Rothschilds and the Trust. Thus far they have called right.

Secondly we need to ignore the 'local' mill owner whine of Whelan. All that went with nostalgic wishes for Number 9s that got on the tram to the game with fans. We take global cash..so we shouldnt baulk at global ownership.

The only proper analysis that could help is analysis of the Plan..and investigation into Probity. The BBC holed Syed below the waterline with their revelations; if Venky[s have similar skeletons then we should support attempts to find them.

Until then, resistance, unfortunately is futile. Until they show their worth. And if they come up short...well.... Come the Revolution is another thread another day we hope will never come.

That is a terrifically well-argued post. There is one way for the fans to get their views known and considered and that is for a representative of the fans to sit on the Board. There are precedents for this and I think Syed considered this didn't he?

[trueblue]

I was under the impression this was the job of the trust to prevent this...then WHY are they taking an unnecessary gamble with our club?.

I may be wrong and I hope to god I am but I have a feeling that JW et al have been told by the Walker family to get sold,we want rid now,to anyone,or else.

The sale of the club has sod-all to do with JW et al.. it is the Trust that are selling and I would suggest that neither JW nor the board have much of a say in who we are sold to

[47er]

I can assure you that I will not say that. If that was to happen, I can assure you that I would be just as devastated as everyone else.

I'm not against this takeover. My point has always been that you can't be fully against this or fully for it, until we know the facts.

Those of you being overly optimistic, need your heads testing. If you were selling your car, would you hand the keys over to the first person who showed up and let them go for a 'test drive'?

Am I prepared to let Ewood's name be changed for £5m a year? No. Am I mad about this? No, because nothing has happened yet. Anything that has come from VH has been a PR disaster followed by a PR cover up, there is nothing factual in anything we have heard thus far. At this stage the only emotion you should be feeling is to be cautiously hopeful.

One point that's been missed in the Dave Whelan interview is that he states VH is the "only " group with which the Trust has held "serious talks" since we were first put up for sale!

That's rather knocked Syed's bid on the head hasn't it? And those who told us what a great position we were in because we had 3 bidders desperate to buy the club.

Now if Whelan is wrong about that why should anyone take notice of anything else he said?

If he's right there don't seem to be many options available do there?

[Sysagent]

I'm afraid I don't buy the "trust the trust" line, nor the "trust Jack's will" line, because if either was the case we wouldn't be about to be sold to Venkys.

The club is about to become a marketing vehicle for what appears to be a tenth rate company on the other side of the world, and depending on who you believe, also a vehicle for a cabal of spvis at Kentaro to launder young players into the PL. Not what you want your club to be is it?

One voice has been missing throughout this process, that of the fans. Now Dave Whelan's suggestion that the club be sold for a nominal figure is not going to happen, but surely Rovers' fans have to say that we against the club going in the direction it is, and to argue for more fan involvement in making a decision about the future of the club.

Now I'm not arguing for a FC United-type of solution, but we have to decide what is important for us as fans. And being a brand for Venkys to flog more ill-treated chickens can't be the height of our aspirations.

If Carlsberg wrote Forums posts on here that would be it ^

Probably the best post on this forum for years...

[Roversider]

If Carlsberg wrote Forums posts on here that would be it ^

Probably the best post on this forum for years...

You must have been imbibing a lot of Carlsberg .....

[Balwer]

I don't think the Glazers care too much about the fans either way do they? Hardly a great example to put up.

Actually I think it's the perfect example. Plenty of club owners don't care about the fans and the Glazers are one of them. What part of what's happened to date makes you think an Indian chicken conglomerate keen to expand their business globally cares a whit about what the fans of a Lancashire football club think?

[Brfcrule1]

I have to say reading this thread it has gone to the realms of being ridiculous and some of the comments are totally out of order and without thinking some people on here need to think before they speak and yes that includes SG194 you quote I was under the impression this was the job of the trust to prevent this...then WHY are they taking an unnecessary gamble with our club?.

I may be wrong and I hope to god I am but I have a feeling that JW et al have been told by the Walker family to get sold,we want rid now,to anyone,or else.

those are 2 totally contradictory stories seeing as though at the beginning of this process they stated if the club was not sold after this process they would hand Sam the Benni money & that contradicts wanting to sell to anyone you then say why are we taking an unecessary gamble probably to do with the fact that unless we sell now we will probably have to let go of Jones etc. just so that Sam can have some money to spend and even then we might still be relegated. Also you state the Walker family have said get rid to anyone or else unless you have an insight into the negotiations those comments don't help and if as you say they say get rid of the club to anyone do you not think we would be owned by Dan Williams,Chris Ronnie et al the fact they have had many parties interested and Venkys have got the furthest says they are taking every possible care to sell to the right people. Also you have to remember every business man/woman probably has skeletons in the cupboard as they say you don't get where you do in business without taking a few risks. At the end of the day we are all nervous about the future but what's the alternative die a slow death with the current board. Even now to stand still you still need to spend money in this league that is how much this league has changed and how much it will change in the future. Nicko any update on proceedings do you think it will be complete late this week or next. Kamy when are we due for more editorials on the VH Group thought it was said there would articles on the possible new owners.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I stand by what I say until gladly proved wrong.This deal does NOT feel right and Rovers will be USED for the benefit of another business.It appears VH will USE Rovers for maximum exposure with minimum financial input.

If your not concerned at that prospect then that really is ridiculous.

[unclejack28]

I stand by what I say until gladly proved wrong.This deal does NOT feel right and Rovers will be USED for the benefit of another business.It appears VH will USE Rovers for maximum exposure with minimum financial input.

If your not concerned at that prospect then that really is ridiculous.

As Iv said earlier this deal is going to happen weather it feels right for you or for me or for anyone. For any fan of this club not to feel nervous would be wrong. The only thing we all can do is support whatever decision is made and deal with the change in a positive way. As for the minimal financial input line I feel they will do what they feel is necessary and like iv mentioned before we are definitely not going to get a Man city spending spree but to have 10 - 15 million to spend per season is fine by me.

And in regards to the discussion about how much money VH have etc, How do you know they are the only investors.??

[BPF]

One point that's been missed in the Dave Whelan interview is that he states VH is the "only " group with which the Trust has held "serious talks" since we were first put up for sale!

That's rather knocked Syed's bid on the head hasn't it? And those who told us what a great position we were in because we had 3 bidders desperate to buy the club.

Now if Whelan is wrong about that why should anyone take notice of anything else he said?

If he's right there don't seem to be many options available do there?

I think that the fact that Syed has withdrawn his bid is probably the biggest issue regarding his purchase of the club.

I can't say how much Mr Whelan knows but I can say that there were three or more groups that all made offers to the club. The Trustees opinion of their bids is largely irrelevant when discussing the fact that they did want to buy the club.

Someone very high up in the club said that VH's chances of success were about 70% and this was about two weeks before it was all over the news. They have obviously seen something in VH that interests them, it just remains to be seen what that is. Regardless of how many times it's written on here, they are not billionaires (in pounds.)

I'm interested to know what is going on at the moment. I can't understand why VH were saying that they hoped to have it tied up by the end of last week when I know for a fact that the Trustees always said to them that it would be towards the end of November.

[unclejack28]

I think that the fact that Syed has withdrawn his bid is probably the biggest issue regarding his purchase of the club.

I can't say how much Mr Whelan knows but I can say that there were three or more groups that all made offers to the club. The Trustees opinion of their bids is largely irrelevant when discussing the fact that they did want to buy the club.

Someone very high up in the club said that VH's chances of success were about 70% and this was about two weeks before it was all over the news. They have obviously seen something in VH that interests them, it just remains to be seen what that is. Regardless of how many times it's written on here, they are not billionaires (in pounds.)

I'm interested to know what is going on at the moment. I can't understand why VH were saying that they hoped to have it tied up by the end of last week when I know for a fact that the Trustees always said to them that it would be towards the end of November.

They did say that it all depends on how long the banks take to make the relevant transfers. It was Diwali in India so everything was shut from the 4th - 8th so this may cause a slight delay as well.