[Archived] Kentaro

[philipl]

Well we have seen the Kentaro twosome whispering in the Venky brothers' ears at Ewood today.

But it seems to me this relationship is as clear as mud and the more I consider it the murkier and more damaging to Rovers it looks..

From what I understand, this is the 4th time Kentaro have reached this stage of being involved in a club's purchase and every time previously the sale has foundered when the selling club realised they were going to become little more than a feeder adjunct to Kentaro's objectives.

Kentaro are a football agency and rights company - how exactly is this going to work letting the fox run the hen house?

For starters it is looking increasingly unlikely that there will be a place for John Williams at the club if Kentaro become the de fact management- after all John has frequently bemoaned the way agents have leached fortunes from the game and forced player remuneration into the stratosphere. The club has an enormous debt of gratitude to John for the brilliant way he has managed and guided the club with passion and professionalism and I for one fear enormously for our future without him if this what is to happen under our new hands on "too early to comment" putative owners and their Kentaro siamese twins (joined at the hip and certainly mouth in ear as seen at Ewood today).

OK the fate of Chairman and Manager is speculation but the job of the agent is to push for higher wages and the job of the club management is to keep wages under control- how is that going to work when agent and football advisor are one and the same?

None of the existing players are Kentaro clients. How do you think the agents of our current players are reacting at the moment?

Are we going to be facing Kentaro poaching the likes of Samba, Robinson Jones, Nzonzi from their current agents because Kentaro are now going to influene the club's wages structure?

Then what happens when we go recruiting players? Are we going to be only recruiting from the Kentaro stable? It might be an impressive list but most by definition will not be available to us because of their existing wages and employers. Or are we going to see the wage structure blown apart to accommodate a non-playing SWP? For the benefit of SWP and Kentaro or for the benefit of Rovers?

OK so we go recruiting Kentaro's young European stars in the making (or Latin Americans with EU passports) but what if they are no good? Do Kentaro make sure Rovers pick them to protect their investment in them?

And when these kids are sold, who gets the transfer fee profits? Rovers or Kentaro?

I rather think Mrs Dessai let the cat out of the bag when she talked of Rovers "leasing" our players in future. IE Rovers will NOT get the profit on any transfer fees in future- Kentaro will with a slice for Venky's.

And what happens to our existing Academy of non-Kentaro youngsters? All to be pushed aside by Kentaro's investments no doubt.

Then when we have a number of Kentaro players and a number of non-Kentaro players in the squad, what happens? There will be a war in the camp over favouritism, alleged and real.

You might think this is hypothetical but look what happened at Man City when Thaksin was owner there. It all started well enough but despite big beasts like Joorbachian and Zihavi hanging around, Jerome Anderson got a monopoly on the players signed and brought in 8 of his clients I believe.

All went well until Christmas when the club fell apart under SGE over issues of who got picked and why, who was favoured and why etc etc. And look what happened to the famed Academy at City which had been a veritable production line of promising youngsters- destroyed.

In the final analysis the Anderson time at City was an unmitigated disaster as most of his players

- were not successes

- were sold at a loss

- City's playing form collapsed in recriminations

- young talent dried up

- there was very nearly a transfer ban

- and the club was a day from Administration when Sheikh Mansoor arrived.

And all this happened on the watch of a former Prime Minister who knows a thing or two about using power so what hope for a playboy brother of a chicken boss.

Ah but, you might say, what about all the media rights Kentaro make most of their money from?

Precisely Kentaro make the money.

Their business model has been to sign up national associations like Brazil, Argentina, Austria and rigorously control who plays whom in friendlies to take the TV moneys on both sides.

Given the model is to sign up several countries, why not sign up several clubs with puppet owners putting the cash in and sort of hiding Kentaro's involvement? Well it appears they have been repeatedly trying to do this and dear old Rovers look like falling into this particular honey trap with Venky's.

And what will Kentaro do with this group of clubs? Well it seems pretty obvious they will challenge the rights of Leagues to negotiate collective agreements with the big boy clubs no doubt cheering Kentaro along.

Imagine, we are going to be effectively controlled by an Agency whose mission in life is to destroy the collective media agreement which is the life blood of the Rovers' existance. With those sorts of mega numbers to play for, Rovers and Venky's are totally disposable.

Quite simply, it is not a hypothetical conflict of interest between Kentaro and Rovers or a small one which can be sensibly managed.

The entire idea of Kentaro being involved in Rovers is one massive conflict of interest to the probable detriment of Blackburn Rovers every which way you look at it.

[John]

I can certainly see why some are looking forward to Kentaro's involvement, personally the idea makes me slightly fearful.

To me, it spells danger signs all over it and clearly Venky's know very little about football therefore will be relying mostly on their "advisers" for advice/guidance. Feel very uneasy about the whole situation, lot of unanswered questions at the moment, we can only hope it works out positively....

Thinking about it, Sven could be a good shout for next manager if the takeover goes through.

[beerwins]

Would you be happier without there influence? It appears to me that the VH group dont know enough about the prem league and have sought advice, is your main concern with the takeover that they have sought advice from the wrong people.

Would you have been happier if the VH group sought their advice from the french guy that Syed was using? What you have to remember is that VH will own the club and if they find the advice given is not accurate they will quickly move on, there is no money coming from Kentaro so they have no foothold on the club and if VH see fit they will seek other options.

I dont think that the VH company are mugs, you dont make millions by listening to others and accepting everything they say you have to do your own research which im sure they will do in time. I dont know much about the Kentaro group but if the VH group had come to buy the club without seeking the insight from people in the game they would have been laughed out the door.

Yes I am nervous about being tookover but no more nervous than our league postion at the moment.

[DanLad]

I'm a season ticket holder for 25 years and would rather stay as we are than go with the chicken company. Only Syed has interested me and obviously that is only if he's not a bullshitter

I don't read the papers particularly, so maybe I'm ill informed, but from what I've heard I'm seriously underwhelmed and worried.

We're risking our future for £5 mill transfer funds?

We're in bother if that's the case.

Edit - Sorry - Wrong thread? Club in cahoots with agents, general fears, correct thread?

[Bobby G]

I didn't like the sound of things last week and don't now either. It's Syed for me if he sorts out any loose ends.

[tashor]

I rather think Mrs Dessai let the cat out of the bag when she talked of Rovers "leasing" our players in future. IE Rovers will NOT get the profit on any transfer fees in future- Kentaro will with a slice for Venky's.

But surely those leased players will be, by definition, on loan......

Hence their numbers will be limited by Premier League rules.....

The vast majority of players will have to be "our" players so will attract transfer fees if sold....

And for the whole "Project Rovers" to work for Kentaro/Venky's it is essential that a certain little ol' Lanky club remains in the Premier League.......

Job done?

[philipl]

Venky's are the ones putting capital at risk- not Kentaro. On that basis Kentaro are less wedded to a Premier League Rovers.

I don't think Mrs Dessai necessarily made a mistake in her first "real" Tuesday interview when she talked of player leasing as opposed to loans. There are lease agreements where the asset ownership is with the lessor. This hasn't been really tried in fotball but with Kentaro firmly inside the Rovers, they might well try it meaning they would get the transfer profit, not Rovers.

Wonderful for us in the early years but when it all goes wrong, Rovers would be an empty shell with no players of value it could sell.

[broadsword]

What's that company that part-owned Carlos Tevez? That's what this reminds me of. I just imagine a sdituation where we only part-own our players.

We have people from another continent working hand-in-hand with Kentaro. One party will know football inside-out, the other won't have a clue as to the machinations. Wouldn't be a problem if they both had exactly the same agenda. Neither of them is getting involved with the primary aim of seeing Blackburn Rovers be as successful as possible, this is presumably a corollary of their real motives which as you would expect are purely profit-driven.

The more I think about it, the more anxious I get about the whole thing. If it all goes boobs-up, this sale cannoty be undone. No-one else will want to buy us then, that's for sure.

Come into my parlour, said the spider to the fly.

[Roberto Policano]

Surely Kentaro are just in this to advise your club and will pickup a fee for doing so.

And standard agent fees will be paid to their agents if and when players arrive.

The money is coming from the Indians and not Kentaro.

Thats how i would understand it anyway.

[Tim Southampton Rover]

Has Kentaro actually released any details about their involvement with Venky's and the Blackburn takeover or are people just assuming the worst because they don't know what's going on themselves?

[Roberto Policano]

This hasn't been really tried in fotball but with Kentaro firmly inside the Rovers, they might well try it meaning they would get the transfer profit, not Rovers.

That is surely backdoor 3rd party ownership,which is banned in Both the Premiership and Serie A.

[philipl]

Surely Kentaro are just in this to advise your club and will pickup a fee for doing so.

And standard agent fees will be paid to their agents if and when players arrive.

The money is coming from the Indians and not Kentaro.

Thats how i would understand it anyway.

But isn't there a conflict of interest when the "professional advisor" makes a recommendation to buy a product he is also the representative of?

The picture Nicko has painted is one of far far deeper involvement by Kentaro than the limited version you suggest Robert. The way Anderson was filmed explaining things to the Venky brother today was very revealing to anyone with the most basic ability to read body language and backs up Nicko's version that these guys are effectively the football brains coming in.

With regards to back door ownership yes it is banned. But what if the agent has come in through the front door which is what is happening at Rovers? ie the agent IS the club in certain circumstances.

There is a mass of documentation from the Tevez case and I remember thinking reading the two judgements at the time that West Ham failed on technicalities on a number of points that a cleverer operator could structure a deal to comply with but still deliver the same result.

[BuckyRover]

That is surely backdoor 3rd party ownership,which is banned in Both the Premiership and Serie A.

Don't let legality get in the way.

[Parsonblue]

You raise a number of very interesting points phillip. However, at the end of the day the Trust have obviously been aware of the involvement of Kentaro and if, as most people around the club today seemed to believe, the Trust are about to sell the club to VH it would appear that they believe that VH and Kentaro are the way forward for the club. Certainly it would appear that they are far happier about what they have seen from VH than either the Shah or Syed bids.

If, as you suggest, the VH involvement with Kentaro was bad for the club, why would the Trust entertain their bid, let alone accept it? I don't believe that the Trust aren't fully aware of Kentaro's involvement with VH but they are clearly happy with it. As they are the only ones who have seen all the documents with regard to the bids it's difficult to argue against going along with what the Trust opt for. At the end of the day we must hope that the Trust get it right because ultimately they are the only ones who have seen all the facts and figures on which to base their decision.

Whoever bought the club was bound to change things. At the moment we don't know what those changes will be. Hopefully, the services of John Williams and Tom Finn will be retained always supposing that they wish to stay on under a new regime. I would hope that the manager is given the opportunity to show what he can do with a little more investment than we have had in the summer. However, new owners are bound to have their own ideas on how the club should be run and clearly VH are leaning on Kentaro for advice on a football plan for the business.

If the Trust have got it right then the club might well come out of this as a stronger outfit. If the Trust have got it wrong then the club might well be in the mire. Any change of ownership is going to be a gamble. We can only hope that the Trust, in taking their time, have reached the right decision.

[67splitscreen]

Of course the Trust and Rovers know of Kentaro's involvement just as Darmon was with Syed.

Question is if no one asked the question, will Kentaro be involved later? then it's fair to assume that no one knew until it appeared in the paper.

Then questions are asked.

I'm truly uneasy with Kentaro's involvement, the problem is without them we could have owners running the club like headless chickens.

Carlsson had his agents licence suspended some time ago as he took up a directorship at a Swedish club, I believe he has only recently got it back, probably why he does not have many players currently on his books.

I've heard that only last week he was in Brazil looking for new talent.

All that said he is allegedly one of the better agents and knows his stuff.

[philipl]

Nicko has just posted confirmation that the public appearance today was a demonstration of how closely Venkys and Kantaro are working together.

The points about Rovers and Kentaro being hopelessly conflicted by this whole thing remains.

We have a de facto owner whose interests are not the same as the club's

[Roberto Policano]

But isn't there a conflict of interest when the "professional advisor" makes a recommendation to buy a product he is also the representative of?

Hard to say in a league where third party ownership is banned,in South America & some European countries it would be deemed Ok.

I have never come across this sort of thing before in an elite European football league.so i guess you are a sort of test case.

Obviously it happened in Brazil with M.S.I and Corinthians,but rules are very different there obviously.

The Premiership have cleared the partnership,so they cannot see anything wrong with it,and i doubt they want another

Portsmouth situation or scandal on their hands,as that episode did damage to the Premier Leagues reputation.

Personally if done correctly i reckon you could really be onto a winner.The agent culture in your country is frowned upon in alot of countries in Europe,but if it works for your clubs then fair enough.

[Hughesy]

OP - How do we know Kentaro are being used for Talent & not their ability to get us better sponsorship/ marketing deals??

Also - have you ever considered that JW might not want a job when the new boys come in?? He wont be around forever.

[chaddyrovers]

OP - How do we know Kentaro are being used for Talent & not their ability to get us better sponsorship/ marketing deals??

Very good point and one that i've said before!

[booth]

Would you be happier without there influence? It appears to me that the VH group dont know enough about the prem league and have sought advice, is your main concern with the takeover that they have sought advice from the wrong people.

Would you have been happier if the VH group sought their advice from the french guy that Syed was using? What you have to remember is that VH will own the club and if they find the advice given is not accurate they will quickly move on, there is no money coming from Kentaro so they have no foothold on the club and if VH see fit they will seek other options.

But if they are that clueless, which they clearly are, why not just work with people already at the club or bring in people from within football that do not have conflicted interest? That's what bothers me. It seems that it's purely to run the club on the cheap and perhaps make a buck.

When Jack took control he brought in Dalglish, and then later JW. Although I suppose making money wasn't Jacks priority.

Another issue with this is that it may deter future managerial talent who don't want to work within these confines and influences.

[67splitscreen]

OP - How do we know Kentaro are being used for Talent & not their ability to get us better sponsorship/ marketing deals??

Also - have you ever considered that JW might not want a job when the new boys come in?? He wont be around forever.

Come on Hughesy, Nicko alluded to the fact, who do you believe.

[Hughesy]

Come on Hughesy, Nicko alluded to the fact, who do you believe.

I just wondered why Philip is so against this whole bid...very bizarre.

[BPF]

It really confuses me as to why people continue to ask why individuals like Philip and myself are questioning this takeover.

I'm honestly beginning to question whether you feel the same way about the club as I do.

You're willing to:

1. Have owners that know NOTHING about football.

2. A TOTALLY uncertain future

3. Renaming of the stadium

4. The removal of everything that is Blackburn Rovers.

5. Operate purely for the purpose of advertising.

6. Have Blackburn Rovers used in anyway that VH see fit to enhance their bank balance.

For FIVE MILLION pounds in January. I have it on very good authority that this was the amount the Trustees were going to release in January anyway!

To be changing the way the club operates, I want to see a little more on offer.

Involvement with Kentaro is dangerous, make no mistake about it. It amused me that Roberto mentioned 'Surely Kentaro will just be offering your club players.' Once VH get their hands on this club, they will be the only ones between Kentaro and the first team. This is too scary to contemplate. They have already showed what they can do at City! If it wasn't for them being extremely fortunate they would be sharing a position with Portsmouth now.

I was sat at Ewood today looking up at the prospective new owners and all I felt was depressed. A family, small town and loved club is about to become a living and breathing advertisement for battery chicken farming. I'm over the moon about that.

An open question to the board (Chaddy in particular):

Why are you looking forward to this deal being completed?

[booth]

Sums it up better than I have on the other thread BPF.

[Hughesy]

It really confuses me as to why people continue to ask why individuals like Philip and myself are questioning this takeover.

I'm honestly beginning to question whether you feel the same way about the club as I do.

You're willing to:

1. Have owners that know NOTHING about football.

2. A TOTALLY uncertain future

3. Renaming of the stadium

4. The removal of everything that is Blackburn Rovers.

5. Operate purely for the purpose of advertising.

6. Have Blackburn Rovers used in anyway that VH see fit to enhance their bank balance.

For FIVE MILLION pounds in January. I have it on very good authority that this was the amount the Trustees were going to release in January anyway!

To be changing the way the club operates, I want to see a little more on offer.

Why are you looking forward to this deal being completed?

Thing is your questions are very much based on guess work...how do you know there are no restrictions on what they can & cant do in the future?

NOTHING about football, Again can you prove that??

Removal of everything that is Blackburn Rovers?? So they are changing the blue n white halves, changing where we play & train & also our name?? B0llox!!

£5M more than we have seen from the trust for ages...NOTHING to prove the trust would give us diddly squat in Jan.

Everything to mention is basically what has been put into your head....NO PROOF what so ever!

IF THE TRUST BELIEVE THEY ARE RIGHT FOR THE CLUB....then so should we!