[Archived] LOST FOR WORDS.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Stop talking about things you don't fully understand. The poppy is a rememberence of British soldiers who have died in wars. How does it remember Irish ones?

Brian, If you go back in History most of the populace of the British Isles have at some point gone through what proportions of people Ireland have in the past 50-60 years.

Look at the Irish invasion of Scotland, the picts were ethnically cleansed in the name of Catholicism- how do you think the Catholics of Celtic originally inhabited Scotland?

This is about remembering the dead no more no less; anyone trying to make a political or cultural point is imo inhumane scum.

[XLM]

You mean the 51,000 who were forced into it?

That is absolute rubbish. Historically totally incorrect and typical of the nonsense that people make up to justify a point a view that the facts don't support.

Were the pals regiments in Lancashire forced to fight? that is the sort of sacrifice that whole communities made that deserves remembrance, if you don't respect that you just shut up and respect the feelings of others. Its called being a mature human being. Those Celtic fans obviously aren't.

[The Dart]

Celtic people have to realise they are a British Club in Britain and thats that.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I think its shameful by the Celtic fans as many Irish have fought in both world wars or did they not know that?

As bad as those fans above are, as pointed out to me this morning every club as sons from Burnley such as this lad:

I have a soft spot for Rangers but by Christ am I glad I am of no religious persuation whatsoever.I remember this documentary from a few years back and there were clearly NUGGETS on both sides,they will never get rid of the hatred as its clearly more than football...its way too deep.

JHC!!

[MarkBRFC71]

I just can't believe that in the 21st century people still argue about who's imaginary friend is best to the point of murdering each other over it. The world would be a much better place without religion.

[Mr. E]

I just can't believe that in the 21st century people still argue about who's imaginary friend is best to the point of murdering each other over it. The world would be a much better place without religion.

The world would be a much better place without people too.

[Mattyblue]

I just can't believe that in the 21st century people still argue about who's imaginary friend is best to the point of murdering each other over it. The world would be a much better place without religion.

Bit of a misconception that it is simply a Catholic/Protestant argument.

The political status of the island of Ireland is not just a religious matter.

[jim mk2]

What do expect from a bunch of left-footers ? Alf Garnett had the solution to the Irish problem.

The question is, what are Celtic and the Scottish FA going to do about it ?

The answer is, nothing.

[Tom]

Couldn't care less if the rangers fans are just as bad those with that banner are scum simple as.

Disgrace.

[Wiggy]

What do expect from a bunch of left-footers ?

This statement makes you just as bigoted as the scum with the banner. Ignorant oaf.

[Mattyblue]

Funny that wiggy, because in ICBINF he is Comrade Jim, man of the opressed.

Who is the real jimmk2?!

[chocky]

Every single person holding those banners should be banned from football for life.

What more do you expect from celtic fans.

[joey_big_nose]

Did a bit of research into why anyone would do such a provocative thing and found the below statement which explains things somewhat. To be fair there is a point in there - Britain does have a poor and oppressive history in Ireland right up until the end of the 19th Century, and in the 20th there have been incidents like Bloody Sunday etc, and the poppy is being imprinted on the shirts so it is a direct endorsement of the poppy campaign by the club.

However, what I don't really understand is what purpose putting a statement that "your deeds would shame all the devils in hell" serves except to ###### off an overwhelming number of people in the UK and in Ireland? The poppy is dead rememberence, it is not a political statement of support for the sum of the British Army complete historical actions.

The argument the fans have is with their club heirachy, fair enough. I can see why some would not want a poppy on the shirt, especially with the Bloody Sunday report coming out recently. But a banner like that which s%%%s on millions of war dead seems vastly vastly stupid and polarising, and betrays a complete lack of maturity.

"

At half-time during today’s match against Aberdeen we displayed message banners calling for ‘No bloodstained poppys on our hoops’ in protest at the Club’s decision to once again wear the poppy on our shirts during next week’s game at St Mirren (a match our group will not attend because of this decision). This is in support of an appeal by Poppyscotland to all SPL clubs. Poppyscotland describes its role as ‘supporting heroes’ and state that ‘the poppy has become a symbol of remembrance and for the sacrifices made by our Armed Forces’. Our group and many within the Celtic support do not recognise the British Armed Forces as heroes, nor their role in many conflicts as one worthy of our remembrance. Earlier this year, the Saville Report on Bloody Sunday confirmed that 14 unarmed civilians were murdered in Derry in 1972 by the Paratroop Regiment. They were among hundreds killed by the British Army during the most recent phase of conflict in Ireland. More recently, the British Armed Forces have murdered and maimed many thousands more innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan. The poppy remembers not just our grandfathers who fought the Nazis but also those who bombed the Belgrano and brutally occupied the streets of Belfast and Basra. While we recognise the right of individuals to remember their dead and that many within the Celtic support will wear the poppy in memory of family and friends lost in WW2 and other conflicts, we cannot accept the imposition of the poppy onto our shirts.

As far back as April, representatives from the Green Brigade, Celtic Supporters Association and Celtic Trust met with Peter Lawwell to express our united opposition to the Club imposing the poppy on the first team jersey. We also know that the AICSC and many other individual supporters had called on the Club to reverse their position of previous years and take the poppy off the shirt. Following our meeting in April, the Club were contacted on several occasions for further dialogue on the issue but informed us that they were still considering their position and would get back to us. The first any group knew of the decision was after it had been made, and publicly announced. We share the views of the AICSC whose recent statement on the poppy stated that ‘to see the jersey being used as a medium for such a divisive symbol and the message it communicates is deplorable’, and that it showed a complete lack of respect for the support, further highlighted by repeated declarations on the official website of Celtic’s delight to be wearing the poppy and supporting Poppyscotland. It appears rather than leave his politics at the door, chairman John Reid, the former Armed Forces Minister and Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and Defence, has forced his onto the first team jersey.

As you may have noticed at today’s game, we mistakenly missed out the ‘D’ in ‘bloodstained’. This happened in the rush to finish two displays for todays game (with our ‘Show the SFA the red card’ action before the match). The real mistake, however, is the Club forcing the poppy onto our shirt.

"

[Stuart]

As far as I'm concerned, politics has no place in football.

[thenodrog]

After 30 years of being hunted by the British Army in Northern Ireland, I can't say I'm surprised by such a protest. I don't think that a club with Celtics history of being founded by an Irish priest should be remembering the British Army.

I do agree that the past should stay in the past though.

Those two sentences are contradictory to say the least. .

btw whose been hunted? By definition you are saying that celtic fans all members of the IRA!

[chocky]

Tell me again, how many unarmed, innocent civillians were murdered by the I.R.A. Their war was not just against the armed forces...

[thenodrog]

You mean the 51,000 who were forced into it?

The whole thing is as old as time itself and will probably never end.

The point I was simply making was that both lots are as bad as each other.

Rubbish! My wife's mother was an Irish catholic living and brought up in Dublin. She freely volunteered and signed up for the WRAC's in WW2.

[Tom]

The Irish thing doesn't wash with me they are playing in the scottish league not the Irish one.

Now I'm a catholic and agree religion has no place in football.

[BuckyRover]

People living in Britain AND disrespecting the establishment?

Never!

Free speech has it's unsavoury side.

[Mc Love]

Its funny how it was set up by an Irish priest and people turn their backs on the church but not Celtic!?

[thenodrog]

Stop talking about things you don't fully understand. The poppy is a rememberence of British soldiers who have died in wars. How does it remember Irish ones?

The same way.

btw Have you stopped to think brian that you'd be writing this in German but for the people who fought and died in the two World Wars? Do you believe for one minute that had Hitlers Third Reich succeeded in conquering Europe that little old Eire with it's declared and brave stance of neutrality in WW2 would not have succumbed to Nazi ambition?

In all this indoctrinated hatred of Britain brian do you not stop to wonder why we don't particularly hate the Romans, the Danes and Norwegians or the French? As a nation we've had our hard times too where stonger invaders have conquered, robbed, murdered, pillaged, raped, looted etc etc our ancestors and our lands. It appears that we've got over it and moved on.

As I've said before I detest all religions that leave adults tainted by their brainwashing as infants.

[Mattyblue]

As I've earlier said, the Irish issue is not just religion, indeed the early supporters of Home Rule in Ireland were Protestants.

As long as half of Northern Ireland want to see a united Ireland and half want to remain part of the UK, the issue will never go away.

[brian_gallagher85]

In all this indoctrinated hatred of Britain brian

That's simply not true.

[The Dart]

However, what I don't really understand is what purpose putting a statement that "your deeds would shame all the devils in hell"

You see that's from a song about James Connolly, the great man born in Glasgow to Irish immigrants, who was one of the 1916 rising leaders who was executed by the people the poppy remembers.

[joey_big_nose]

In all this indoctrinated hatred of Britain brian do you not stop to wonder why we don't particularly hate the Romans, the Danes and Norwegians or the French? As a nation we've had our hard times too where stonger invaders have conquered, robbed, murdered, pillaged, raped, looted etc etc our ancestors and our lands. It appears that we've got over it and moved on.

A very inflammatory way of putting it.

To make 2 pretty obvious points about how the situation is different in Ireland compared to the Roman/Anglo-Saxon/Viking/Norman incursions into Britain:-

1) They were vastly longer ago

2) There was not a structred system of religious repression that existed in Ireland till the late 19th century, and a bloody reprisal war in the early 20th, and aftershocks that continued right down to the 1970s.

My point would be that just in the same way that we shouldn't forget the enormous abuses committed by slave labour in the US, or the crimes comitted by nazi germany, or the Soviet Union in Czechslovakia or Hungary, we should not forget the persecution of the vast catholic majority in Ireland by a small protestant power class backed by ENglish and Scottish institutions.

It is important to move on - nothing can be achieved unless you do (and that is why the inflamatory banner I think is absolutely moronic and pointless as it drags up everything again without constructive purpose). If you look at just how well Europe functions today it is absolutely staggering how many bygones have bygone so to speak - a truly amazing achievement so rarely sung of.

Frankly my impression is that if you could tells someone in 1975 that Ireland and the UK would enjoy a relationship as close, co-ordinated and respectful as it is today within 35 years, supported and supplemented by a powerful expanding and prosperous European Union, they would have thought you were, at best, a hopeless idealist. But it has come to pass.

Makes a bunch of %%%%heads trying to get a rise out of people with a stupid phrase on a banner look rather irrelevent and childish.