[Archived] Poppy Burning Protest

[MarkBRFC71]

I'm not going to say anything other than this disgusts and angers me incredibly.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328703/Two-faces-Armistice-Day-Boy-brimming-pride-fanatics-burning-hate.html

[Nelsta]

It's shocking, I think that the people seen in the photos should be deported.

If they feel so strongley about our troops and our way of live then they should sod right off.

[Mattyblue]

Good luck with this one mods!

All I will say, this has caused anger on a scale I have not experienced before. Even the most placid characters at my work were up in arms this morning

[Kelbo]

Surely this amounts to Treason, people were hanged years ago for this!!

Deport the culprits, send them to the country of their origin, we dont want them here, this is not racist, they are living in the UK, respect our country or get out!!

Totally disgusted.

[MarkBRFC71]

I can't believe the police/authorities/whoever allowed it to go ahead. Not that I would condone it in any way, but I'm certain had it been the EDL burning a copy of the Koran during Eid in protest at unlawful killings by Muslim extremists, it would have have been stopped and dispersed forcefully and instantly.

I'm all for freedom of speech, but perhaps it's not quite as free in this country as we like to think?

[Mattyblue]

I can't believe the police/authorities/whoever allowed it to go ahead. Not that I would condone it in any way, but I'm certain had it been the EDL burning a copy of the Koran during Eid in protest at unlawful killings by Muslim extremists, it would have have been stopped and dispersed forcefully and instantly.

I'm all for freedom of speech, but perhaps it's not quite as free in this country as we like to think?

Well that has already happened for less. EDL marches are often banned as they are likely to 'inflame tensions', freedom of speech therefore has limits, understandable.

In that case, why oh why was that utter disgrace not stopped yesterday?

[Tom]

The protests were disgusting but I think we all know were this thread is going.

[cletus]

A facebook 'page' was set up last night for people to register their disgust & demand the deportation of these extremists. Within 3hours over a quarter of a million people had signed it. A lot of the comments were quite nasty, but showed the depth of feeling people have about the subject.

This morning there is no sign of the facebook page. It has been removed by the powers that be.

I commented that if this protest had been done in the USA at an american rememberance service, these extremists would`ve been lucky to get away with their lives.

[Mattyblue]

A facebook 'page' was set up last night for people to register their disgust & demand the deportation of these extremists. Within 3hours over a quarter of a million people had signed it. A lot of the comments were quite nasty, but showed the depth of feeling people have about the subject.

This morning there is no sign of the facebook page. It has been removed by the powers that be.

I commented that if this protest had been done in the USA at an american rememberance service, these extremists would`ve been lucky to get away with their lives.

Just waiting for the usual suspects to deride anyone with a negative view on Islam to be 'bigoted racists', of course only a small minority of Muslims would stage such a stunt as yesterday, but Islam is increasingly detaching itself from mainstram opinion and there are many more Muslims that have similar, if not as overt, beliefs.

[Glenn]

Am I the only one that thinks the right to none violent protest is an essential civil liberty?

Sure, as a life long support of the Royal British Legion, I found this wholly offensive and distasteful, but I still believe people should have a right to do it.

It's not free speech if somebody gets to decide you only have freedom of expression on approved subjects.

... and yes, I'd obviously feel just the same if it was the EDL burning Koran (which I'd find equally appalling).

I agree it's a sad necessity that larger protests needed to be controlled in the interest of public safety, but that doesn't mean the protests shouldn't happen at all.

[broadsword]

If Allah is their protector, as their banners proclaim, then why do they need a police escort?

As for those saying they should be deported, where do we deport British-born (I'm assuming this is what they are) subjects to? We're stuck with them. But that wouldn't stop me inviting them to depart for Trashcanistan to fight infidels in the name of Allah. I'll chuck in a few quid for the bus to the airport.

They're seeking to create divisions in society, poison people against muslims and create civil unrest. Everyone has the right to free speech, but surely there are legal limits? It's tantamount to a breach of the peace, no? This sort of nonsense needs nipping at the bud before these utter morons find themselves in the middle of a riot. Each time they try something new and even more outrageous to get attention and poison minds. Obviously they're going to keep going until the get what they want.

My tax money went on paying for police protection for these fifth columnists, and it's really objectionable.

[SouthAussieRover]

The protests were disgusting but I think we all know were this thread is going.

It's heading to the spelling school.

Where instead of were

[Glenn]

Surely this amounts to Treason, people were hanged years ago for this!!

Nope. "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation.]." ...Oran's Dictionary of the Law (1983). Distasteful yes. Treason, no. Plus "yeas ago" people were hanged for being witches, it doesn't make it right!

Deport the culprits, send them to the country of their origin, we dont want them here, this is not racist, they are living in the UK, respect our country or get out!!

Looking at the ages of many of those involved I'd say the country of origin is probably the UK, so that a bit of a problem isn't it. One of the things that is important in this country is right to none violent protest if we lose that, I'd imagine I'll be getting out myself. I will acknowledge that UK citizens disrespecting their country and fellow countrymen is a very real problem, but sadly it's not limited to a few Muslims.

Totally disgusted.

At least we can agree on that much. I am too.

Well that has already happened for less. EDL marches are often banned as they are likely to 'inflame tensions', freedom of speech therefore has limits, understandable.

Citation need. Often banned ? Or asked to be rescheduled in the interest of public safety. The problem is many of the EDL protests are intentionally planned to coincide with other protests (in the hope of driving conflict I'd imagine), if they are asked to move it to another date in the interest of public safety, it's not banned.

In that case, why oh why was that utter disgrace not stopped yesterday?

I agree that I'm surprised the police were happy to allow it at that specific time and place.

A facebook 'page' was set up last night for people to register their disgust & demand the deportation of these extremists. Within 3hours over a quarter of a million people had signed it. A lot of the comments were quite nasty, but showed the depth of feeling people have about the subject.

This morning there is no sign of the facebook page. It has been removed by the powers that be.

Citation needed. Was it removed by the powers that be or was it taken down my the page creator as he realised he was horribly out of his depth (you wouldn't believe some of the crap we have to put up with and we have have 5000ish members and we steer well clear of such topics). Even if it was Facebook themselves, was it taken down because of it's original sentiments or because the comments breeched their terms of service (facebook have legal obligations too)

I commented that if this protest had been done in the USA at an american rememberance service, these extremists would`ve been lucky to get away with their lives.

This may be true. But it would have been perfectly legal (although in California, they'd probably have been prosecuted for air pollution). The US has constitutionally protected right to free speech.

but Islam is increasingly detaching itself from mainstram opinion and there are many more Muslims that have similar, if not as overt, beliefs.

I nearly added a flippant "Citation Needed" on this too. But I genuinely don't know if this is true and would be interested in evidence. The mass media would have you believe their is a sharp rise in young Muslims wanting to take a strong stand against the country they were born and bred in, but is this truly the case, or is it simply a change in reporting because it grabs attention? Is the problem now much worse than it was, or are we just seeing it reported more ?

Don't get me wrong on this, I in no way support what they did and find it as repugnant as the majority here. But scum are scum regardless of the religious or racial background and I don't want a knee jerk reaction to these scum depriving ME of MY civil liberties.

[Paul]

Am I the only one that thinks the right to none violent protest is an essential civil liberty?

Sure, as a life long support of the Royal British Legion, I found this wholly offensive and distasteful, but I still believe people should have a right to do it.

It's not free speech if somebody gets to decide you only have freedom of expression on approved subjects.

... and yes, I'd obviously feel just the same if it was the EDL burning Koran (which I'd find equally appalling).

I agree it's a sad necessity that larger protests needed to be controlled in the interest of public safety, but that doesn't mean the protests shouldn't happen at all.

I agree with you Glenn and also the post where you have made multiple quotes. Other than the offence we rightly take about these actions the big worry is the Muslim aspect of this. There is a real danger, it's already a view held by a significant minority, of Muslims becoming a persecuted and reviled section of our society which in my experience of the majority of Muslims is completely unwarranted. if this happens we potentially face real problems with civil unrest in years to come.

As a response to the poppy burning, which is utterly unacceptable but legal behaviour, I found with a few moments Google reports of Americans "stomping" on the Union Jack and blaming the British for the Gulf of Mexico oil spill. I suspect it would take a few moments to find references to young British people, of my generation, burning the American flag outside the American Embassy in Grosvenor Square whilst protesting against the Vietnam war. I may be wrong about flag burning but we are talking 40+ years ago.

Those with extreme views, and in the case of the Vietnam war perhaps just anti-war, have always resorted to what they see as the most shocking behaviour, particularly behaviour to shock the establishment, they can find. How we as civilised individuals react to those with extreme views is either a credit or discredit to our society.

[Paul]

Battle of Britain Day CND Protest

In 1961, on Battle of Britain Day, CND organised a Ban the Bomb rally in Trafalgar Square timed to coincide with the Prime Minister attending a ceremony in Westminster Abbey. Tens of thousands of British people attended the rally, I think one might argue 49 years ago such a rally would have been deemed deeply offensive to the memory of those who died or fought in the Battle of Britain. So this type of action has been used in the UK for at least 50 years regardless of religion, race or ethnic background.

[adopted scouser]

It's the whole issue of sensitivity that drives me up the wall.

Somebody draws a picture of a bloke with a beard and fuse poking out of his head, and these loonies want to kill him and his family, burn down his house, and take to the streets in their hundreds. A little over sensitive wouldn't you agree ?

Sod our sensitivity on armistice day, with thousands paying quiet, dignified respect, and they think it's acceptable to chant death threats, defame our country and brave armed forces, and burn the very image of our soldier's sacrifice since the first world war.

[Glenn]

I agree. But we're back to scum will be scum, regardless of race or religion again.

Were the people protesting at the weekend also up in arms about the Mohammed pictures (in which case, fair play, extreme double standards) or do they just happen to be followers of the same religion (which is akin to grouping me with your average Daily Mail reader because I happen to be white, middle class and was baptised).

Again, please nobody get me wrong on this, it was a horribly insensitive and disrespectful thing to do. It doesn't mean the our civil liberties (such as right to protest) should be removed because of it.

[ABBEY]

you beat me to it AS ,these scum and theres no two ways about it they should be arrested.If they are british then they should hang for treason against their country and if they arent then they should be booted out of England and warned if they come back they swing. Glenn there are protests and then there are protests done to stir up racial tension. What would happen if i went in a mosque and took a dump on the koran?

not be long until a certain person comes on here and defends them and blames the irish...oh no hes ignoring me.

glenn ,off topic but what about the protesters launching the extinguisher?

[Paul]

OK then ABBEY what is your view of the white, British Ban the Bomb protestors who deliberately timed their protest to coincide with the Battle of Britain ceremony in 1961. I know it was a long time ago but it was done for precisely the same reasons as these extremists who burn the poppy - for maximum effect.

I'm only using this example because it's old, 50 years old. You have to appreciate this sort of action is not new. Should they have been hanged for treason?

[ABBEY]

thing is paul,correct me if im wrong ,but was the protest then all about peace? i wasnt born .. these scum now want to blow us up,in hotels ,pubs,planes ,sporting event etc.

their overall aim is worldwide domination.

[Paul]

Yes, you're right that protest was about peace I'm talking about the timing. It took place on the day of a ceremony to mark the 21st anniversary of the Battle of Britain.

Let me put it in context, I was 7 so I don't know the reaction, but 5 years later when I was 12, my mother banned The Rolling Stones from our house, on the basis Mick Jagger was the devil incarnate, and monitored my viewing of Top of the Pops! I'm trying to set the scene so you can judge the outrage people who lived through the war may have felt about protestors "violating" Battle of Britain Day, just as these extremists have looked to violate Armistice Day.

[USRoverME]

I feel the need to comments about something like this happening in the USA and its leading to violence. I assume that comment was meant to be full of disrespect and vitriol.

However, in an attempt to try and keep this thread in the vague realm of civil discourse, lets not forget that we in the states, have "church groups" who protest at the FUNERALS of fallen soldiers who have given their lives in Afghanistan and Iraq. And to my knowledge, no deaths involved in those incidents, despite the thousands of men and women who have not returned alive, and the thousands who have protested at those funerals.

So I ask a simple question, why, pray tell, do you think that we would have more violence in a situation like this than you lot? And try not to confirm your Xenophobia with stereotypical commetns with no basis in fact. I know, its hard.

The view of Glenn is the view I hear from just about every veteran I know or have ever heard speak (except perhaps a smallish subset of the young 20s who have just returned), yes, sometime protests are objectionable, abhorrent, dispicable, etc, but it comes with the freedoms we enjoy, because of those vets. However, you don't get to pick your freedoms, or else they don't really exist.

[USRoverME]

And of course, leave it to that group I was thinking of to provide me with a perfect example....

Veteran's Day Protest

The WBC is a "home grown" group of White Christian Americans, protesting at Arlington National Cemetary on Veterans Day. So clearly disgusting protests like this are limited to foreign muslims.

[BiggusLaddus]

I feel the need to comments about something like this happening in the USA and its leading to violence. I assume that comment was meant to be full of disrespect and vitriol.

I read it more as a criticism of our own impotence, rather than a slight towards you.

I completely agreed with Glenn that these were scum, but not important enough scum to affect my freedoms through any knee-jerk legislative changes. If we all ignored them they would probably stop.

That said, had i witnessed it myself (or if anything remotely similar happens in my town this Sunday) then I would probably be boiling.

[Glenn]

Phelps and the whole Westboro Baptist Church is a whole special kind of crazy, right up there with Scientologists. Thankfully the growing access to information makes people less likely to buy into such nonsense.

Then again, I'm not a fan of any kind of organised religion, especially one that seems to promote bigotry of any kind.