[Archived] England

[patrickvalery]

The trouble with the English national side is our national league. The PL is rotten to the core and it breeds 'unlikeable' players, fans and jealousy from other countries.

To receive an England cap should be the 2nd greatest honour to any English player. To win a tournament for England should be the 1st. However, a decent run of form (even outside of the top flight) earns a call up! Madness.

The money we throw at players now means failure on an international level doesn't have the same consequences it used to. They can still go back to their cosy club environments where the managers molly-coddle them (as is the new way) and earn their £50k p/w. Its quite a safety net to have isn't it? Why go that extra mile for England a handful of times a year when you know you can still earn obscene amounts without it.

Fans (even us poor Rovers fans) are no better. Look at the last window gone by. I think it was when we signed Goodwillie that i saw a link posted on here. On the same page someone wrote "thats him in the bag who's next"!! Sums up the nature of PL fans. We expect everything yesterday. When it comes to England its even worse. If we haven't broken down the stubborn resistance of a team we consider beneath us, the fans and media start stamping their feet. Its counter productive and has helped create the 'fear' we play with according to Capello.

Now Capello is another issue. I've no problem with the man at all. Great coach with an incredible CV. However, he shouldn't be anywhere near our national side. As a matter of principle we should have an English coach who feels the same emotions we do as fans. Perhaps thats old fashioned of me, but to me its important.

Back to the PL. I've said it before but the chasm in financials between the PL and the Championship is too big. Relegation is disaster in most cases. As such too many clubs resort to a cheats form of football to stay on the gravy train. Keep youngsters who are big physical presences and disregard smaller more technical ones. Coach players to win their individual battles and collective battles as a result. Any club who tries to play properly without money to buy the best players ultimately gets bullied out of th league by inferior but stronger footballers. Its not like this in other countries. Sides and players are able to develop because relegation from the top flight doesn't spell the end.

I also wonder why we have to endure pewople talking about foreign imports taking time to adapt to the English game, yet when our best bunch don an England shirt we try to play the foreign way? We slow our pace and try to play continental football. Sod that! Get at them i say. If they struggle to handle the pace over hear then lets try it internationally. I know the best sides in the world will still out pass us and cope with our bullishness. But they'll do that more often if we attempt to beat them at there own game.

All told, the England team are impotent and play with no soul. The only one 2 like to watch is Rooney and Gerrard because they play with the heart i know i would play with if given half a chance. Some of the others have had so much hot air blown up their backsides by pandering club managers fearful of the Bosman ruling, that they have begun to believe their own hype. So much so that our goalkeepers feel it acceptable to refuse a call up unless they're first choice. Even our own No.1 should be ashamed of himself in this respect.

[roverandout]

i think you can terry to the ones who play with passion, will throw his head in front of a brickwall for england.

[patrickvalery]

i think you can terry to the ones who play with passion, will throw his head in front of a brickwall for england.

I used to think that about Terry. However the bloke gets under my skin now. He seems to undermine his manger (unless its his beloved Jose). He plays football the old fashioned way, but strikes me as being a bit of a snake in the grass. But i take your point, he does put his body on the line.

[Mattyblue]

I don't buy the argument that they 'don't care', they just are not good enough at the very top level of international football and like most modern footballers arent particulary likeable people.

[roverandout]

england are better than most, just not in the very top bracket, i would say they are on the same level as france, portugal, uruguay, italy.

Germany, spain, argentina, holland and brazil are at the top at the moment.

[thenodrog]

theno, im not saying he should be playing at a bigger club to get recognition, im saying he deserves to be playing at a higher level because that would suit his talent, he would grace some of europe's top clubs which would give him more experience of playing at the very top of the game thus improving his own game and making england stronger at the same time.

as for passion from the england players, can anyone say john terry or steven gerrard or wayne rooney have no passion? these guys give sweat and blood when representing their country, you lot are decrying that of them when they give their all? no wonder they despair when representing their country when you have some fans like that on here.

So roverandout which do you think will improve Cahills game most... playing against the likes of Rooney, Van persie, Drogba, Dzeko, Suarez Carroll etc etc on a weekly basis or playing behind them against the likes of Jason Roberts, Heskey, Beckford or Di Santo?

btw. Re your other point I don't believe there is anything at all exceptional about the passion of Gerrard, Terry etc. They make all the right noises in the press and thats about it.

This lad had some passion btw...

http://england.worldcupblog.org/england-flashback/england-flashback-terry-butcher-drenched-in-blood.html

[roverandout]

your right theno in some aspects but playing in the champions league in high intensity matches would be better than just playing wolves, aston villa and rovers every week, you need big game experience for when your playing in big game matches for england. As for passion, have you never seen john terry throw his body in front of a goal bound shot for england? or steven gerrard drag them towards a victory? yes alot of the time, especially freindlies they go through the motions but thats because club football is regarding as being more important these days with big money riding on the champions league and premiership.

[thenodrog]

.... but thats because club football is regarding as being more important these days with big money riding on the champions league and premiership.

Not only more important but more lucrative. Dropping them from the scene and picking from the 'B' team would quickly alter that billy big time attitude imo. Wounded pride and all that.

I've said it before but if we'd binned off every member of the England team who turned up in South Africa and selected a hungrier and properly committed 'B' team we'd have done much better.

[Gav]

Not only more important but more lucrative. Dropping them from the scene and picking from the 'B' team would quickly alter that billy big time attitude imo. Wounded pride and all that.

I've said it before but if we'd binned off every member of the England team who turned up in South Africa and selected a hungrier and properly committed 'B' team we'd have done much better.

Have to agree with that

[Stuart]

So roverandout which do you think will improve Cahills game most... playing against the likes of Rooney, Van persie, Drogba, Dzeko, Suarez Carroll etc etc on a weekly basis or playing behind them against the likes of Jason Roberts, Heskey, Beckford or Di Santo?

That argument doesn't really hold though, because whichever team he played for in the PL he'd have to play against most of that list. Playing for Bolton also doesn't mean he won't face the likes of Roberts and similar either.

So it's a moot point. At least it would be a moot point if it weren't for the opportunity to play against the best of Europe's strikers too.

Not withstanding the other debates about merits of the CL, particularly the group phases, of course.

Your argument should have been that Cahill would probably be experiencing the comfort of the subs' luxury recliners (aka 'The Bench').

[pick32]

England with the squad now can reach the semi finals of the European championships if we qualify, but thats providing we dont meet holland, spain or gemany because they would tear us to pieces.

[Stuart]

England with the squad now can reach the semi finals of the European championships if we qualify, but thats providing we dont meet holland, spain or gemany because they would tear us to pieces.

Love the caveats!

[Eddie]

On its day as good a side as any in the world. Very exciting young squad and it will be interesting to see how they perform in the next two major championships.

[BuckyRover]

It's strange isn't it? After WC 2010 people really feared for the national side, but when you look at it now it looks really good.

Rooney on form is a necessity for our success

[Tom]

My feelings on it are probably summed up by the fact I didn't even know there was a game on Friday till I saw on twitter we had scored.

I don't dislike the team as a whole, I dislike the media around it and the selection criteria but overall I just have a feeling of apathy towards international football these days apart from the big tournaments. The patriotism that comes with the big tournaments is a good thing but I felt more patriotic around the Royal wedding than I do during the tournaments.

I'll always be club before country personally but can see why people would be both ways.

[roverandout]

we havent played on a wednesday, we played on friday and this tuesday.

[Tom]

Sorry I meant Friday, D'oh!

[roverandout]

i make that mistake, epecially when im at work, its monday and i think its friday, or is that wishful thinking?

[RibbleValleyRover]

England with the squad now can reach the semi finals of the European championships if we qualify, but thats providing we dont meet holland, spain or gemany because they would tear us to pieces.

My money is on Germany to win the Euros next year. Ozil, Khedira, Gotze, Marin, Muller, Schweinsteiger et al. There is just too much quality there for England to cope with them.

[roverandout]

i cant see past spain, though germany are producing some class players, they are always there or there abouts, not matter how good their team is, wish we had their winning mentality.

[speeeeeeedie]

Would England losing a World Cup semi final/final hurt you more than say Rovers going down?

(I'm not saying the usual 'would you rather... 'by the way)

England.

I support Rovers because they are my local team and it was the closest place to watch good live football growing up. They've gone down once since I started supporting them and it didn't hurt much, more like oh well.

[RoyRover]

On its day as good a side as any in the world. Very exciting young squad and it will be interesting to see how they perform in the next two major championships.

Never their day though. Same as always for England; some good players, average team, overpower inferior opposition in qualification and then get embarrassed at major tournaments by teams who can keep the ball.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Wales should have won.

[Stuart]

Is it just me...?

[dubdubdub]

For all those who hate Kean...could do worse...