[Archived] England

[BuckyRover]

I think that's rubbish. You never use all your 23 players. He would be mad not to include him.

Keown in 2002 and Wise in 1998. Examples of "wasted" squad places.

[Billy Castell]

Fair enough, but what if we look good without him, and get through convincingly? Do we change the whole structure of the team just so he can fail at another tournament in an England shirt? It would be unfair on the player who he replaces. He only really performs for Man Utd anyway, and whilst he is a loss it isn't so dramatic.

[Amo]

He's their one genuine world class player. You take the best player out of the other middling nations and they would be in big diffs too.

A phrase thrown about like confetti. Until Rooney actually achieves something on the world stage (apart from getting sent off and throwing strops), he's not "world class".

[BuckyRover]

No. If we play well really well in the group stages he stays on the bench. A good motivator for those selected but we also know that we can bring him on if necessary.

[Billy Castell]

Good point, but I doubt that will happen if he did go. He'd be in ASAP.

I'm sounding like I give a crap now, and I don't really. My team(s) are playing tomorrow.

[bennyboyt11]

Like we have another forward that could replace Rooney in the England squad... One of the worst areas of the team as it is!

[JAL]

Like we have another forward that could replace Rooney in the England squad... One of the worst areas of the team as it is!

What! with a population of over 50 million people we've no other forwards ...come on, surely this isnt right, is it, especially with all the high unemployment or free time available to improve ones game.

[Eddie]

A phrase thrown about like confetti. Until Rooney actually achieves something on the world stage (apart from getting sent off and throwing strops), he's not "world class".

He's consistently performed in the Premier League and Champions League, both of which are higher quality competitions than either the World Cup or European Championships.

[Billy Castell]

The Premier League better than the world cup??? OK it is hard to compare, but I think it is fair to say that Lee Cattermole would not do well in a world cup whatever country he played for.

[bennyboyt11]

I'd argue that it's harder to have a good season in the Premier League than a good World Cup.

[roverandout]

i would take sturridge, class act, can make a goal out of nothing, would also take chamberlain as he could be our wildcard, i would still have rooney there as with a player of his ability, you cant afford not to providing we make it to the knockout phase, i still beleive that uefa will back down and reduce his ban. we arent going to win it anyway so we may as well take the up and coming youngsters like jones, wilshere, welbeck, sturridge, chamberlain and maybe that everton kid, who looks like a star in the making, build for the future but with a smattering of experienced players such as terry, gerrard and ferdinand.

[Amo]

Couldn't miss the irony on MOTD, when they were saying that Balotelli, for all his ability, is a ticking timebomb and not the type of player you need when it matters, as you know he's going to lose it big-time.

I wonder what they'd say if he was English and called Rooney?

[RoyRover]

A phrase thrown about like confetti. Until Rooney actually achieves something on the world stage (apart from getting sent off and throwing strops), he's not "world class".

Would that not then mean that Messi, by far and away the best player on the planet, is not world class as he hasn't achieved anything on the world stage?

[slough_rover]

Would that not then mean that Messi, by far and away the best player on the planet, is not world class as he hasn't achieved anything on the world stage?

Add Christiano Ronaldo to that aswell.

[Sverre]

Sturrigde might be a very good replacement. Young, hungry and highly effective in front of the goal!

Isn't Wilshere out the whole season?

[McRovers]

I blame Capello. There's one thing a boy like that needs and its a coach that he has a good relationship with who he'll work hard for and who can keep him in line. The evidence for this is his performances for Utd, he's consistently dedicated, hard-working and disciplined. Look at Dioufy for us, never has a player's performances been so jarring. Hes awful, sloppy, lazy under almost every sub-par man manager he's played under but for Sam, who I believes biggest assets are his man management and authority, more often than not he turned out a decent performance, and if he didn't Sam would have no problems railing him for it and maybe dropping him for a few games.

As far as i'm concerned this next year and tournament is going to be a write-off for the England national team. Only after Capello, depending on who comes in, will I begin to be remotely bothered about activity on that front. I'm just thinking about World Cup 2014, Capello gone, some of the old hat ###### who're guaranteed places without performing gone, our strong selection of youngsters coming through and having a couple more years a piece. I really think with the right management we could look like the German squad in the 2010 world cup. Young, athletic, hungry and exciting to watch.

[Amo]

Would that not then mean that Messi, by far and away the best player on the planet, is not world class as he hasn't achieved anything on the world stage?

Yup. Messi has yet to achieve anything on the international stage to earn the accolade of "world class". Had the chance to shine at last year's World Cup and faltered.

Let's face it, "world class" is a pretty nothing statement anyway, coined by soundbite whores in the media.

[joey_big_nose]

Yup. Messi has yet to achieve anything on the international stage to earn the accolade of "world class". Had the chance to shine at last year's World Cup and faltered.

Let's face it, "world class" is a pretty nothing statement anyway, coined by soundbite whores in the media.

To be honest that is a pretty nonsensical analysis. Clearly lots of players are amongst the best in the world and have proved it but have not shown it on the world stage because of elements beyond their control:-

Playing for a small nation (eg. George Best or Ryan Giggs)

Unfortunate with injury

Disputes with national managers (eg. Cantona)

You live in a bizarre parallell reality if you think Messi isn't world class. He is the best player in the world. It hasn't quite come together with Argentina but is that his fault? If he played for Spain he could play exactly as he has been doing and be world cup winner as a result of being surrounded by better players. Does that make Messi more 'world class' when the real difference is the players he plays with and having a quality manager rather than a clown like Diego running the show?

Of course not.

[Amo]

So you're saying Messi has underperformed at the World Cup because of his team-mates? Nevermind his individual performances? One could easily flip that and say that playing for Barcelona makes life much easier for him, with players like Xavi and Iniesta et al running the show. If he was literally "world class", he would lead Argentina to glory in the World Cup - a tournament for the world's greatest sides. Or at least show up.

All you're doing is proving that the term is a nonsense in itself.

[joey_big_nose]

So you're saying Messi has underperformed at the World Cup because of his team-mates? Nevermind his individual performances? One could easily flip that and say that playing for Barcelona makes life much easier for him, with players like Xavi and Iniesta et al running the show. If he was literally "world class", he would lead Argentina to glory in the World Cup - a tournament for the world's greatest sides. Or at least show up.

All you're doing is proving that the term is a nonsense in itself.

Giggs has never appeared at a major tournament - does that not make him world class? All I'm saying is clearly to jusdge whether a player is the best in the world on the basis of international tournaments is clearly unfair. If Pele had been Ghanian or Maradona been Maltese then they would never have been able to be 'world class' by that criteria as they would never have appeared and infererior players around them would have vastly reduced their chance to shine. Messi is an interesting one in that he is the outstanding player in a very good team so you could expect a bit more from him. But his performances for Barcelona are so brilliant and generally against a much higher class of opposition than a typical international match that it seems churlish in the extreme to say he is not 'world class' because he has not put a similarly brilliant performance in in the world cup.

Forlan was sensational in the world cup - so therefore by your definiton world class. Would you swap Messi for Forlan? Of course not. So Messi would not be world class yet at the same time be a better player than Forlan. What's the point in that semantical interpretation of the word?

All world class means to me is a short hand for the top players in the world. Sure it's not very precise definition but I'm a bit bemused that it should get a bee in your bonnnet. Would the rephrasing "Rooney is one of the world's best players" be an improvement? It's saying the same thing, just longer.