[Archived] England

[Hughesy]

Another part of the problem, is that most players dont seem to value the national team too highly & dont seem to have any pride in playing for their country!

[thenodrog]

England lost to france, because:

Basically they are just not good enough.

On a lighter note doesn't Ronaldo look happy here:

My link

No wonder.... Nani wasn't offside! Ronaldo really is a fantastic player though.

[thenodrog]

Another part of the problem, is that most players dont seem to value the national team too highly & dont seem to have any pride in playing for their country!

Indeed. And anybody who is guilty of that should never again be considered for selection. Problem is that the FA and recent National managers are too busy playing nthe corporate game to make such tough decisions and until their balls drop and they do grasp the nettle nothing will change.

The ONLY manager to do it his way and pay no attention to any outside influences won the World Cup.

[Hughesy]

Instead of the big club bias too...the FA & the england manager need to make it clear...Not playing for your club consistently for x amount of time, then your not playing for your country.

Too many average squad players in the England squad who dont even get much game time for their own clubs.

[den]

European coaches have been saying for the past 40 years how England are still in the footballing dark ages and never more than last night has it been so apparent.

Look at the top European sides and their teams are made up of players who go to the ball. Every outfield player in that French side wanted the ball played short and to feet. Every single one of them, including the strikers go towards the ball. I hardly remember a long punt from the french all evening.

Then look at England, where the first instincts of half the side is to move away from the ball. When we're in posession, wide midfielders are encouraged to go to the touchline, and full backs are encouraged to go wide The emphasis is always to get the ball to the lad up front from wide areas. England have been playing this way for 50 years and it's such a hopeless way of playing. You might get away with this in club games, but never at the very top of international football, certainly not nowadays.

England should be encouraging it's youngsters to play short and to feet, with good technique, movement and pace of movement. Unfortunately, one of the things that are making this difficult to achieve, are the fans. They're the ones screaming for wingers and they're the ones without patience. Half of the fans still want the old 4-4-2 and still want players standing out wide, while the better opponents play right through the middle of them.

Times move on in football and it's time for England to see the errors of their ways.

All, in my opinion of course.

[thenodrog]

European coaches have been saying for the past 40 years how England are still in the footballing dark ages and never more than last night has it been so apparent.

Look at the top European sides and their teams are made up of players who go to the ball. Every outfield player in that French side wanted the ball played short and to feet. Every single one of them, including the strikers go towards the ball. I hardly remember a long punt from the french all evening.

Then look at England, where the first instincts of half the side is to move away from the ball. When we're in posession, wide midfielders are encouraged to go to the touchline, and full backs are encouraged to go wide The emphasis is always to get the ball to the lad up front from wide areas. England have been playing this way for 50 years and it's such a hopeless way of playing. You might get away with this in club games, but never at the very top of international football, certainly not nowadays.

England should be encouraging it's youngsters to play short and to feet, with good technique, movement and pace of movement. Unfortunately, one of the things that are making this difficult to achieve, are the fans. They're the ones screaming for wingers and they're the ones without patience. Half of the fans still want the old 4-4-2 and still want players standing out wide, while the better opponents play right through the middle of them.

Times move on in football and it's time for England to see the errors of their ways.

All, in my opinion of course.

Leopards and spots. We are not a genetic mixture of portugese settlers and south american indians Den. We are a mixture of Romans, Germans, Skandi's, Normans and sweaties and unfortunately the Scottish gene appears to be dominant.

I'll go with Salgado's opinion that you should develop what you are good at .....

As England prepare to take on France at Wembley tomorrow he believes they should stick to what they do best.

"I was hearing a lot of things after the World Cup, people saying that England have to play more like Spain," he says. "I don't think so. I think the English style is too different from the Spanish. What England should do is to explore the strengths in their own style. They have to play as English players, with the English mentality, you know with the high tempo. England never found their own style during the World Cup."

[joey_big_nose]

England should be encouraging it's youngsters to play short and to feet, with good technique, movement and pace of movement. Unfortunately, one of the things that are making this difficult to achieve, are the fans. They're the ones screaming for wingers and they're the ones without patience. Half of the fans still want the old 4-4-2 and still want players standing out wide, while the better opponents play right through the middle of them.

I agree that the fans are a huge problem. There is little patience given to a manager to build a decent side and massive over estimation of the quality of the players available. It's Spurs/Newcastle syndrome where a destructive cycle of Huge Unreasonable Expectation + Disappoinment = Sacking + Instability = Squad Unrest + Poor Performances

We will sack Capello and we will just go back to square one. There is no indiciation that the core problems have been addressed - one of which is the totally unreasonable idea that England have a God given right to be one of the top 4 teams in the world. Humility and patience is an important part of building for success in my opinion - England lack that.

In terms of playing quality there is a sign that we do have some decent players coming through which is encouraging. For 2014 we could have:-

------------------Caroll----Rooney

A Johnson---Wilshire---Milner----Walcott

-----Gibbs----Jones------Smalling----Richards

----------------------------Hart

That's not a bad team. Caroll looks like he could be an absolute God send for England as he is a decent proper striker which we haven't had for years - probably since Shearer. A Johnson is clearly very high quality, Wilshire has a lot of promise, we all know how good Jones is (although maybe a bit of Rovers bias in there). Main issue is beyond those players it looks very thin at the moment. Not convinced about Henderson, Walcott is all pace and very little else.

We need to see a lot of young players develop very fast is the next couple of years because Rooney is going to be the only one left from this generation in 2014.

[Mattyblue]

Ok theno, we are of a similar culture to the Dutch and Germans, however their technique and quality far surpasses ours at this moment in time.

Rank bad coaching from a young age.

[joey_big_nose]

Leopards and spots. We are not a genetic mixture of portugese settlers and south american indians Den. We are a mixture of Romans, Germans, Skandi's, Normans and sweaties and unfortunately the Scottish gene appears to be dominant.

I'll go with Salgado's opinion that you should develop what you are good at .....

As England prepare to take on France at Wembley tomorrow he believes they should stick to what they do best.

"I was hearing a lot of things after the World Cup, people saying that England have to play more like Spain," he says. "I don't think so. I think the English style is too different from the Spanish. What England should do is to explore the strengths in their own style. They have to play as English players, with the English mentality, you know with the high tempo. England never found their own style during the World Cup."

What a bizarre thing to say?!

1) When has genetics ever had an influence on styles of football play?!

2) I imagine it did not escape your attention that a large proportion of the players who play for England are not genetically "a mixture of Romans, Germans, Skandi's, Normans and sweaties ":-

Ferdinand, Walcott, Gibbs etc.

3) To utterly undermine your point France is also a country made up over the centuries of "Romans, Germans, Skandi's, Normans and sweaties(Celts)" which rather begs the point of why, if genetics are important, why we can't play football like them.

ps. Incidentally Normans are "Skandis".

[den]

I'll go with Salgado's opinion that you should develop what you are good at .....

Precisely the approach that's seen us fall so far behind the top sides Gord. Continue in a fashion that's clearly never going to see us compete with the best in the world.

[Amo]

Another part of the problem, is that most players dont seem to value the national team too highly & dont seem to have any pride in playing for their country!

Probably because the national press are a pack of backstabbers and England caps are handed out like confetti these days. There's no sense of achievement in playing for the national side.

[bazza]

European coaches have been saying for the past 40 years how England are still in the footballing dark ages and never more than last night has it been so apparent.

Look at the top European sides and their teams are made up of players who go to the ball. Every outfield player in that French side wanted the ball played short and to feet. Every single one of them, including the strikers go towards the ball. I hardly remember a long punt from the french all evening.

Then look at England, where the first instincts of half the side is to move away from the ball. When we're in posession, wide midfielders are encouraged to go to the touchline, and full backs are encouraged to go wide The emphasis is always to get the ball to the lad up front from wide areas. England have been playing this way for 50 years and it's such a hopeless way of playing. You might get away with this in club games, but never at the very top of international football, certainly not nowadays.

England should be encouraging it's youngsters to play short and to feet, with good technique, movement and pace of movement. Unfortunately, one of the things that are making this difficult to achieve, are the fans. They're the ones screaming for wingers and they're the ones without patience. Half of the fans still want the old 4-4-2 and still want players standing out wide, while the better opponents play right through the middle of them.

Times move on in football and it's time for England to see the errors of their ways.

All, in my opinion of course.

You are so right, Den.

I watched the game on TV and when England central defenders had the ball (playing from right to left) I looked at the left of the screen where there were no England players coming and wanting the ball. They were all moving away. I was screaming at the TV.

Instead of a 4-3-3 or a 4-4-2 formation we should have the whole of the outfield moving up and down the pitch; a 0-10-0 formation.

You could call it a "Lickey Banker" formation.

[thenodrog]

Ok theno, we are of a similar culture to the Dutch and Germans, however their technique and quality intellect and mentality far surpasses ours at this moment in time.

There fixed it for you matty.

btw how come so many Dutch are natural left footers?

ps. Incidentally Normans are were "Skandis".

[joey_big_nose]

Not much in it. Normans were much more Scandinavian than the English today are Roman. So you have contrited your own, in itself completely pointless and irrelevent, analysis. Sheesh.

[thenodrog]

Not much in it. Normans were much more Scandinavian than the English today are Roman. So you have contrited your own, in itself completely pointless and irrelevent, analysis. Sheesh.

Stuff the history lessons my analysis is valid and thats that. Do you think that next WC every nation across the globe will be attempting to emulate the Spanish style of football? If so you'd better inform the Portugese FA.

[BuckyRover]

Spain lost 4-0 to Portugal the other day. (Ronaldo had a very special goal disallowed (YouTube)).

[Smithy]

There's nothing to say that you can't take aspects from the other countries and add them in with Englands. You should go watch the U17's they now defend corners ala germany push the banks up ala spain but yet play with pace. England just need to keep the ball better and create more space to play in, there's too much hurry to just get it forward and hit a killer ball.

[Mattyblue]

We are where the Germans were a decade ago, the work they have put in has started to come off.

Trevor Brooking talks a good game about a change in emphasis on youth coaching, the centre at Burton has got the green light etc, so things can improve, patience is needed in the short term.

[mckenny16]

[/size]

In terms of playing quality there is a sign that we do have some decent players coming through which is encouraging. For 2014 we could have:-

------------------Caroll----Rooney

A Johnson---Wilshire---Milner----Walcott

-----Gibbs----Jones------Smalling----Richards

----------------------------Hart

Milner in the middle? Really? What about Rodwell? I would have thought it would have more of a chance in the middle than Milner. I think he's a bit of a headless chicken at this level when played in midfield. And Walcott on the wing would starve both Caroll and Rooney of much needed delivery.

During his goal scoring form last season, focusing on the period when he was heading them in every week, the balls mostly came from the right. IIRC 8 out of 9 headed goals during that period came from the right side, specially from Valencia. By putting Milner on the right would give a similar service to the front two. Unless a huge improvement in his delivery occurs, Walcott would not give the same service.

[Smithy]

We are where the Germans were a decade ago, the work they have put in has started to come off.

Trevor Brooking talks a good game about a change in emphasis on youth coaching, the centre at Burton has got the green light etc, so things can improve, patience is needed in the short term.

You might want to ask whats happened with the new youth modules, given they are about 18 months behind schedule. The A Licence is still being written.

Burton, well thats been on the cards for years with some crazy idea's being banded around especially staff wise. I'll believe burton when I see it and not before.

[RoyRover]

[/size]

I agree that the fans are a huge problem. There is little patience given to a manager to build a decent side and massive over estimation of the quality of the players available. It's Spurs/Newcastle syndrome where a destructive cycle of Huge Unreasonable Expectation + Disappoinment = Sacking + Instability = Squad Unrest + Poor Performances

We will sack Capello and we will just go back to square one. There is no indiciation that the core problems have been addressed - one of which is the totally unreasonable idea that England have a God given right to be one of the top 4 teams in the world. Humility and patience is an important part of building for success in my opinion - England lack that.

Good post. I'm surprised at the level of criticism after this game. Everyone knows that England are a second rate side and it's going to take a long time for it to change. There has to be an acceptance of the fact that they can't compete against the best teams in the world and that they don't dine at the same table as the world's elite. Far from it. England are technically so inferior to the better teams, that it will take a long time for this to change. As Joey says, it will to patience and humility to move forward. People will point to the fact that they were without the likes of Rooney, Bent, Defoe and Lampard the other night. But their inclusion wouldn't have made much difference to the result or the performance IMO.

The total farce of the World Cup has obviously left some very deep mental scares and this will take some time to get over. One of the things had to change was by bringing in younger talent, instead of relying on the same old faces who had failed in the past. Capello blooded some youngsters and it will be a good experience for them. The likes of Henderson and Carroll have been elevated to a position beyond their current ability and no doubt will have huge transfer fees placed against their names for the ridiculous reason that they have now played for England. However they are promising players who shouldn't just be discarded because they were given the run around by better players (particularly Henderson, I thought Carroll did well). There's no point in giving some talented youngsters a game and if they don't automatically succeed cut them. They have to be given time and as such, the results mightn't be the best, but at least they will get better and know what is required. There is no quick fix for the how bad England have become and the future doesn't even rest with the talented players that are around at the moment (the likes of Rodwell, Wilshire, Carroll) as some of these will possess the inabilities that have blighted England at international level for so long. Instead it is up to the next generation of 8-10 year olds, who have to be couched the right way.

[K-Hod]

I think to summarise- we're NOWHERE NEAR as good as people thought/the media portrayed etc etc. We've got some potentially good options at the back/midfield and in goal, (well 2 keepers with age on their side at any rate).

We are alarmingly short up front. If Carroll kicks on and turns out to be good then it will be a godsend as Wednesday night highlighted our lack of strength in depth in the forward positions.

[BuckyRover]

To be fair, Defoe, Bent and Rooney were all out. We aren't that good but we aren't that bad either.

[JAL]

Theres simply no reasons left for the FA to pay a leading manager, many, many, millions of pounds to gain success for the national team.

Its false economy from people at the top who are just trying to kid themselves that we are better than we really are.

[LWX]

it's all in their heads... the pressure they stack up on themselves as a result of the hype is stupid/incredible... (pulling on the three lions, representing the inventers of football, all this silliness) someone needs to sit them down and say this is only a game of football lads, so play it. lord knows that anyone getting in the england team must be able to play! and following on from that i reckon we need a slightly less stern and straight faced manager... ala venables, someone who will bring the pressure down, not turn it up. or like morihno does - in a different way by stepping into the hype himself, but i'd prefer the first type because i hate the hype in the game.