[Archived] 2018/22 World Cup bids

[BuckyRover]

Indeed. I think as part of the contract it states that FIFA contractors must be used for any construction.

[Stuart]

Swiss Ramble

[Roversider]

Swiss Ramble

Spot on, as we clearly as a nation have nothing to lose it is time we co-ordinated efforts across the globe to attack Blatter and co where it clearly hurts - through exposing them in the media. Too many people were willing to kow-tow to this group of corrupt individuals, it made me want to vomit.

As to Panorama and Andrew Jennings? Timing is critical in news, don't think for a moment that the decision hadn't been made months ago and if the story had been released at a different time it would have submerged or if after the decision been described as sour grapes. The fact that Putin and Blatter both made barbed comments about the evil media says a lot. They thrive in an opaque world where corruption can lie undisturbed. As they say a fish rots from the head. we are lucky to have a free press, sometimes they overstep the mark but transparency is the best way to deal with corruption.

So do we need the World Cup here in England or Australia? It would have been a wonderful experience but the price we would have to pay was unacceptable. Sadly the government was willing to pay one of the shadiest prices of allowing bizarre tax and funds transfer exemptions for FIFA. Well played the Dutch for telling FIFA where to get off.

It is time we supported our investigative journalists to root out the slime that simmers just out of sight.

Finally can I suggest that the FA invite Sepp Blatter and Jack Warner to our next international match at Wembley and let them bask in the public gaze on the pitch before the game? Their egos may actually allow them to think they would receive a good reception.

[Stuart]

Now that I've calmed down (a bit) I can understand a lot of the posts on this thread. Except those who are 'glad we didn't win it' - pah!

What I still don't understand is how FIFA can justify us finishing bottom, even below Holland/Belgium, in the voting - without extraneous factors being considered.

Andy Anson has come out today and said there is little point in a future England bid:

"I would say, right now, don't bother until you know the process is going to change to allow bids like ours to win.

"Because when you have the best technical bid, a fantastic inspection visit, the best economic report and, from what people told me yesterday, the best presentation, it's quite hard to stomach that that seems to count for nothing."

Does anyone really think that FIFA themselves think they have done anything wrong? I was watching the coverage yesterday and at one point FIFA announced the unprecedented step of not detailing the voting breakdown, before later changing their minds. I'm sure there are people who are delighted England received so few votes. What a statement FIFA have made.

I guess I'm unlikely to see a World Cup in my lifetime. At least before I'm 70, eh, TGM...

Still calm. Just!

[Blue blood]

Lots of inconsistencies in the bidding process.

I'm disappointed we didn't get it, and although we have hosted it before, it was a fair whack of time ago, especially compaired with some of the other countries in the bidding process (for both events.) Given our excellent bid, even if we were not to get it to fall out at the first hurdle seems to me as if the process wasn't actually done on merit at all. Surely we should have got through a couple more rounds at least. Add in the switching of votes and it really is hard to portray an argument that this was made as a footballing decision.

However what astounds me most is Australia not getting a world cup. To me it seems to tick every box, and imo, having never hosted a WC before is arguably a stronger bid then England. Assuming fifa's stance is true - we wanted a suitable place to hold it which has not had one before - then Australia is the ideal/logical/obvious place.

Still at all levels in football money talks and in some ways I'm a tad suprised I'm as shocked as I am by the oucome.

[ben_the_beast]

If the BBC went for FIFA it could be one of their greatest ever scalps. I highly doubt anything of the sort will happen though. The cynical side of me accepts this is just the way it is.

But wouldn't it be great if everything that is wrong with FIFA was exposed for the whole world to see. I can dream

I would wager football would change into a new form. A cleaner sport more akin to a past form, one which the average fan can relate to far more readily. As i said. One can dream

[MarkBRFC71]

Where did you get that figure from ? The number I have seen is £15m.

From what I've read and heard on the radio, £15m was just the cost to submit the initial bid. The total outlay was £463m, presumably that's for all the lobbying, visiting, schmoozing, designer handbags for the 24 committee members' wives etc - but maybe not enough fat wads in brown envelopes, eh?

They were talking quite specifically about that amount on Talksport last night, and saying it's a disgrace that we've spent that much yet don't get any official feedback as to why our bid failed and what we might do next time to improve our chances.

I imagine the Aussies are even more annoyed as they wanted to withdraw yet were encouraged not to by FIFA - yet still got ingloriously snubbed.

[CrazyIvan]

One of the reasons the WC possibly didn't come the England, or any of the nations where there is already adequate stadia and facilities, might be because the nations that have got them need to have that essential stuff built. What will be interesting, and should be watched carefully, is who gets awarded the contracts for all of this and who is behind the companies that do...

[JAL]

A journalist on Talksport has come out with a comment that the government are hoping mad over this failed bid and are in the coming weeks to start an independent inquiry into football governance in THIS country.

It makes you wonder has somebody at FIFA mentioned something about our football authorities to our government thats led them to take this action.

Maybe rather than criticising FIFA we should take a hard look at ourselves first.

[broadsword]

Maybe we should use the Qatari FA as a model?

I really hope the 2022 WC is a farce.

[JAL]

Maybe we should use the Qatari FA as a model?

I really hope the 2022 WC is a farce.

Why ?

Is FIFA not about developing football around the world specifically for nations that are underdeveloped in the beautiful game?

[Mattyblue]

You don't really believe that JAL?!

[OscarRaven]

A journalist on Talksport has come out with a comment that the government are hoping mad over this failed bid and are in the coming weeks to start an independent inquiry into football governance in THIS country.

It makes you wonder has somebody at FIFA mentioned something about our football authorities to our government thats led them to take this action.

Maybe rather than criticising FIFA we should take a hard look at ourselves first.

No, quite the contrary in fact. The Government has left the FA and PL alone despite appalling mismanagement, perennial underachievement and lack of transparency, BECAUSE of FIFA (and to an extent this bid). FIFA take great exception to Governments getting involved in football matters and influencing of member associations.

Personally I hope our media can do what it does best devoid of its so called ‘patriotic’ shackles and start a fresh with the investigative work into FIFA, even if they can’t expose past & present wrong doings the spotlight will at least keep the game clean going forward.

[JAL]

You don't really believe that JAL?!

What, that FIFA intends to take football and develop it further in areas around the world were it would be of benefit new stadia etc.,.....of course I do.

The two announcements confirming the 2018 and 2022 world cups in Russia, and QATAR, make it pretty clear to all FIFA's commitment to the world of football.

[JAL]

No, quite the contrary in fact. The Government has left the FA and PL alone despite appalling mismanagement, perennial underachievement and lack of transparency, BECAUSE of FIFA (and to an extent this bid). FIFA take great exception to Governments getting involved in football matters and influencing of member associations.

Personally I hope our media can do what it does best devoid of its so called ‘patriotic’ shackles and start a fresh with the investigative work into FIFA, even if they can’t expose past & present wrong doings the spotlight will at least keep the game clean going forward.

Good point about governments getting involved in football, after this though exposing FIFA's so called wrong doings, for me, is not a good idea, as it just smacks of bitterness.

[MarkBRFC71]

Why ?

Is FIFA not about developing football around the world specifically for nations that are underdeveloped in the beautiful game?

Football will be Qatar's favourite sport for one month in 2022, then it will likely take a back seat again to whatever is currently the current national sport (I've heard kabbadi mentioned on the radio).

The only motivation for that ludicrous decision was financial, based on how much money has already been and will be directed to FIFA, its executive committee and its affiliates.

Absolutely corrupt.

For me the whole voting system needs revamping - instead of the 22/24 members of the committee, let every national FA have a vote (all 200+ of them), maybe even let fans of the non-bidding countries have a say too. Would fans have chosen Qatar over the US or Australia? Not a chance.

[jim mk2]

From what I've read and heard on the radio, £15m was just the cost to submit the initial bid. .

Never seen or heard of a figure of mentioned £463m. Evidence ?

It's obvious now that Russia and Qatar were Blatter's choices and that he instructed the Fifa 22 to vote for them in his final briefing, which probably explains why they changed their minds after 5 or 6 has given verbal assurances to the England bid team. Blatter also reminded delegates of the British press coverage just to make sure they were certain where their priorities lay. It's also obvious that Blatter had made his mind up about Russia and Qatar many months ago, which makes the whole subesequent process a charade.

Blatter and Fifa are rotten to the core.

[Ozz]

The cost of a failed bid. FA spent £15m

[JAL]

Football will be Qatar's favourite sport for one month in 2022, then it will likely take a back seat again to whatever is currently the current national sport (I've heard kabbadi mentioned on the radio).

The only motivation for that ludicrous decision was financial, based on how much money has already been and will be directed to FIFA, its executive committee and its affiliates.

Absolutely corrupt.

For me the whole voting system needs revamping - instead of the 22/24 members of the committee, let every national FA have a vote (all 200+ of them), maybe even let fans of the non-bidding countries have a say too. Would fans have chosen Qatar over the US or Australia? Not a chance.

We can scream and scream all we want MarkBRFC71 but at the end of the day, FIFA under the stewardship of Sepp Blatter, has a vision to take world football to every part of the globe which is exactly what they have done with these two announcements.

We've already hosted a world cup in 1966, yet Russia has never hosted a world cup, neither has Qatar or the region around there, so how unfair would it have been to these nations if we'd have got it again. Lets have some balance here.

The cost of a failed bid. FA spent £15m

I wonder if theres been some private money in this bid aswell.

[Amo]

The cost of a failed bid. FA spent £15m

I bet most of that was for Beckham's image rights.

[MarkBRFC71]

We can scream and scream all we want MarkBRFC71 but at the end of the day, FIFA under the stewardship of Sepp Blatter, has a vision to take world football to every part of the globe which is exactly what they have done with these two announcements.

We've already hosted a world cup in 1966, yet Russia has never hosted a world cup, neither has Qatar or the region around there, so how unfair would it have been to these nations if we'd have got it again. Lets have some balance here.

We're the home of football, we had demonstrably the best, lowest risk, highest revenue generating bid, yet we lost out to an oil-rich nation, against which there are VERY strong allegations of corruption and deep-lying mafia influence in the corridors of power. Excuse me if I'm just a tad sceptical about FIFA's motives here.

As for 2022, why choose a tiny country with only 350,000 native inhabitants, no football heritage but £billions in oil resources, over a sport-mad nation - who too have never had the WC - with the experience, facilities and infrastructure to guarantee a low-risk WC like Australia? Again, excuse my scepticism but I'm seeing a pattern here ....

[Doaksie]

As for 2022, why choose a tiny country with only 350,000 native inhabitants, no football heritage but £billions in oil resources, over a sport-mad nation - who too have never had the WC - with the experience, facilities and infrastructure to guarantee a low-risk WC like Australia? Again, excuse my scepticism but I'm seeing a pattern here ....

While I was disappointed with the 2018 decision, I can sort of comprehend why Russia was chosen. I certainly don't agree with it, but it does seem workable.

As for 2022, the mind boggles. The 'legacy' argument surely falls down somewhat when you consider Qatar were up against Australia. They also had a chance to host their first World Cup and leave an arguably more sustainable legacy, while at the same time posing less of a 'risk' in many ways. As you say Mark, it's hard not to be suspicious of the decision to reward the oil-rich country, with cash to spare.

It must really smart to be an Aussie today, and that's even before I mention the cricket...

[only2garners]

As for 2022, the mind boggles. The 'legacy' argument surely falls down somewhat when you consider Qatar were up against Australia.

Surely the legacy is exactly where Qatar won? The offer to relocate many of the new stadiums to developing countries after the event was a master stroke - instant legacy in a large number of markets with huge enthusiasm but no chance of staging the finals. Surely that's more than a few stadiums in a small market where football is arguably the fifth most popular sport?

[cn174]

What, that FIFA intends to take football and develop it further in areas around the world were it would be of benefit new stadia etc.,.....of course I do.

The two announcements confirming the 2018 and 2022 world cups in Russia, and QATAR, make it pretty clear to all FIFA's commitment to the world of football.

They may take football to new places, but not to the benefit of the people there. If they were really that bothered about fans and benefiting people, then why was it so difficult for many normal South Africans get tickets, whilst companies (losely affiliated to FIFA funnily enough) were allowed to buy up vast numbers of tickets to tout around, which is against thier own rules?

[Mattyblue]

FIFA has a vision to take the World Cup to every part of the globe was JAL's point.

In that case why did we even bid? Why was Australia humilitated like we were?

For the two countries with the worst technical bids to win makes a mockery of the whole process.

As I said yesterday World Cups seemed to be awarded by fulfilling one of the below criteria

1) Football heritage- England, Germany.

2) A legacy for an upcoming nation- SA, perhaps Brazil.

3) To bring football into new markets- US, Australia, Japan/Korea

Now as dubious ad the Russian bid seemed, they probably fulfill all 3 of those in one way or another.

Qatar however, is beyond ridiculous, just step back and look at it- a nation with 200,000 citizens using vast oil and gas money to buy the worlds biggest sporting event.

It is corruption that drives Blatter, Warner and co not some earnest vision of bringing the game to the world.