[Archived] 2018/22 World Cup bids

[tony gale's mic]

Surely the legacy is exactly where Qatar won? The offer to relocate many of the new stadiums to developing countries after the event was a master stroke - instant legacy in a large number of markets with huge enthusiasm but no chance of staging the finals. Surely that's more than a few stadiums in a small market where football is arguably the fifth most popular sport?

How is it a master stroke?! Unless these stadiums are maintained properly they'll soon fall into disrepair, and countries that can't afford to build big fancy stadiums certainly won't be able to maintain them over a sustained period of time. A new stadium which just happened to be the product of a FIFA World Cup won't suddenly make a whole country gain a love of football.

And there's very few countries where football is the fifth most popular sport, if the stadiums are going to the poorest countries then we're talking Africa and the poorest countries in Asia, most of which football is fairly high up the list if not top.

If you think these decisions, particularly the Qatar one, had exporting football as the main reason for winning rather than corruption, you're pretty gullible.

[jodrell]

12 Reasons Qatar Deserve To Host It

Interesting article on Qatar but iam still in backhander opinion

[RevidgeBlue]

Holding 2022 in Qatar is a bit like holding the next winter olympics in Jamaica.

[tony gale's mic]

12 Reasons Qatar Deserve To Host It

Interesting article on Qatar but iam still in backhander opinion

Am I missing something or are the 12 reasons all made up of the twelve stadiums?

[RevidgeBlue]

Am I missing something or are the 12 reasons all made up of the twelve stadiums?

Forgive me for being thick but does that article mean Quatar will take place underneath airconditioned stadiums with a roof on?

Surely that's reason for NOT holding the tournament there straight away.

[only2garners]

How is it a master stroke?! Unless these stadiums are maintained properly they'll soon fall into disrepair, and countries that can't afford to build big fancy stadiums certainly won't be able to maintain them over a sustained period of time. A new stadium which just happened to be the product of a FIFA World Cup won't suddenly make a whole country gain a love of football.

And there's very few countries where football is the fifth most popular sport, if the stadiums are going to the poorest countries then we're talking Africa and the poorest countries in Asia, most of which football is fairly high up the list if not top.

If you think these decisions, particularly the Qatar one, had exporting football as the main reason for winning rather than corruption, you're pretty gullible.

Of course the fuzzie wuzzies won't know what to do with a football stadium will they - silly me. Also why would it be done to encourage a love of football - we are surely talking about places like Ghana and the Ivory Coast, where football is almost a religion already. It's surely about a way of providing excellent facilities for places that otherwise couldn't afford it.

My point about football being the 5th most popular sport referred to Australia. That was an educated guess on my part, so I went to check and in spectator terms in 05/06 football was actually the 7th most popular sport in Australia - behind aussie rules, rugby league, rugby union, cricket, horse racing and motor sport. Maybe the new league might have changed those numbers but not by that many.

I don't doubt that there may be corruption also involved here, but that wasn't the point I was responding to - it was your comment that there would be no legacy from a Qatar world cup. Maybe what they plan won't work but it looks to have vastly more potential for expansion and improvement of facilities for football than anything an Australia world cup could have provided.

[tony gale's mic]

Of course the fuzzie wuzzies won't know what to do with a football stadium will they - silly me. Also why would it be done to encourage a love of football - we are surely talking about places like Ghana and the Ivory Coast, where football is almost a religion already. It's surely about a way of providing excellent facilities for places that otherwise couldn't afford it.

My point about football being the 5th most popular sport referred to Australia. That was an educated guess on my part, so I went to check and in spectator terms in 05/06 football was actually the 7th most popular sport in Australia - behind aussie rules, rugby league, rugby union, cricket, horse racing and motor sport. Maybe the new league might have changed those numbers but not by that many.

I don't doubt that there may be corruption also involved here, but that wasn't the point I was responding to - it was your comment that there would be no legacy from a Qatar world cup. Maybe what they plan won't work but it looks to have vastly more potential for expansion and improvement of facilities for football than anything an Australia world cup could have provided.

If you take the trouble to read what I said again, I think you'll find I said they wouldnt be able to afford to maintain them. Which is true. Expensive stadiums are expensive to maintain and I very much doubt that Ghana and Cote d'Ivoire will have the resources to maintain these stadiums over a sustained period of time.

And whilst club football isn't so big in Australia, international football is - the national football team there regularly gets big crowds. Australians have a huge passion for sport and will turn up for most sporting events, and the WC would have given the game a huge boost in that country. Not quite the same as doling out about a dozen white elephants around the developing world, but hey.

[only2garners]

If you take the trouble to read what I said again, I think you'll find I said they wouldnt be able to afford to maintain them. Which is true. Expensive stadiums are expensive to maintain and I very much doubt that Ghana and Cote d'Ivoire will have the resources to maintain these stadiums over a sustained period of time.

And whilst club football isn't so big in Australia, international football is - the national football team there regularly gets big crowds. Australians have a huge passion for sport and will turn up for most sporting events, and the WC would have given the game a huge boost in that country. Not quite the same as doling out about a dozen white elephants around the developing world, but hey.

I clearly need to bow to your superior knowledge on Qatar's plans. I didn't realise they were going to be large and expensive. My understanding was that they were planning to take a simple module from the top of their stadiums and export those, but hey.

I don't doubt a world cup in Australia would lead to lots of enthusiasm and full stadiums, but that's not a legacy. I suppose there might be a bit of a knock-on effect later, maybe they will even get to be 6th or even 5th most popular sport. If you doubt that I'll refer you to the experience in the US, where football has become more popular since they had the world cup, but is still well behind grid iron, baseball, basketball and ice hockey.

[JAL]

We can scream and scream all we want MarkBRFC71 but at the end of the day, FIFA under the stewardship of Sepp Blatter, has a vision to take world football to every part of the globe which is exactly what they have done with these two announcements.

We've already hosted a world cup in 1966, yet Russia has never hosted a world cup, neither has Qatar or the region around there, so how unfair would it have been to these nations if we'd have got it again. Lets have some balance here.

I wonder if theres been some private money in this bid aswell.

Is it likely that some of the English cash ended up in a few FIFA officials private accounts, now that really would be extremely embarrassing if proved.

[Mattyblue]

The World Cup should be in places that can attract vast amounts of spectators from home and abroad in numerous locations to enjoy the football- ie Australia.

The profits FIFA then gather can be ploughed into developing the game in poorer nations- a sane route to a 'legacy' that does not require tiny oil nations buying the votes of FIFA members and then promising that crumbs will thrown off the top table to Africa etc in the form of bits of concrete from the Qatari stadiums.

[BuckyRover]

The World Cup should be in places that can attract vast amounts of spectators from home and abroad in numerous locations to enjoy the football- ie Australia.

The profits FIFA then gather can be ploughed into developing the game in poorer nations- a sane route to a 'legacy' that does not require tiny oil nations buying the votes of FIFA members and then promising that crumbs will thrown off the top table to Africa etc in the form of bits of concrete from the Qatari stadiums.

Very true.

[CaliRoverNYC]

I was pulling for England in 2018 mostly for selfish reasons but I think you guys also had the best 2018 bid. As for 2022 i'd have understood if the US had lost to Australia, but qatar doesn't make sense. but at least it means we dont see china in 2026.

Having the world cup in england and then the US made the most sense and would have made the most money... but clearly that doesnt mean anything to fifa.

[thenodrog]

After having dinner with many of the broadsheet journo's in England most seem clueless,so it wouldn't surprise me.

Tabloid Journo's much better in England.

Freemasonry must be rife at the Daily Telegraph,Christ knows how some of that lot get paid.

Maybe me & Alan Nixon are just good.

When i return to England in the new year,i'll buy you a pint after one of your games,and tell you then.What i know cannot be put in print.

You're on..... And I'll buy you one back.

[Doaksie]

I'm wondering how likely it will be that Brazil will be unable to host the World Cup in 2014? Apparently they are hopelessly behind schedule and struggling financially, much like Colombia were in 1982/3 before the tournament went to Mexico (because they were on the same continent and had the infrastructure in place after hosting the tournament 12 years previously).

I guess the United States would be the leading contender in such a scenario, but I would love to see Fifa come crawling to the FA with their begging bowls (an unlikely scenario granted), pleading them to host the 2014 tournament. They did say England and the USA could potentially host a tournament tomorrow so I guess they'd be the two main candidates.

[thenodrog]

What utter nonsense. I was 12 in 1966 and remember the final as if it was yesterday. I'll be 64 in 2018 and according to you incapable of attending a football match!!!! Bet I spend more time at Ewood that season than you. As a doctor do you consider everyone of 64 or older in no fit state to take part in everyday life??

That aside it's clear we didn't spend enough cash on this bid. That's why we lost. It will all be on the telly.

And there's the rub. If we all feel cheated, let down and that FIFA is totally corrupt then we should all stick to the courage of our convictions and not watch any WC qualifier either in the flesh or on the telly and not touch a scrap of merchandise nor buy a thing from WC corporate sponsors. Whingeing means nowt compared to hitting them in their wallets. But there is a fat chance of that happening isn't there? It'll all be forgotten in a week or two and the twisters will have triumphed.

btw ... The BBC shouldn't be vindicated as events seem to have proven them completely right. I could go as far as to suggest that if anyone does intend to watch the Russian WC on telly or in person should refrain from posting complaints on this thread.

[broadsword]

I'm wondering how likely it will be that Brazil will be unable to host the World Cup in 2014? Apparently they are hopelessly behind schedule and struggling financially, much like Colombia were in 1982/3 before the tournament went to Mexico (because they were on the same continent and had the infrastructure in place after hosting the tournament 12 years previously).

I guess the United States would be the leading contender in such a scenario, but I would love to see Fifa come crawling to the FA with their begging bowls (an unlikely scenario granted), pleading them to host the 2014 tournament. They did say England and the USA could potentially host a tournament tomorrow so I guess they'd be the two main candidates.

Think I'm right in saying the US almost hosted it in '86, before losing out to Mexico, as you say.

[thenodrog]

Christ, has early dementia set in already, or have you had a lifelong cognitive impairment?

I said "most" of those won't be in much of a state.

You were 12, but there'll be many who were just a bit younger than you, 7 or 8 or younger who won't remember it very well at all. Also experiencing a World Cup in your country as a child is very different to experiencing it as an adult, making your own plans to see matches and taking in the atmosphere at your own leisure. Those 18 or older in '66 would be over 70 in 2018 and while there'll be a significant number who will be able to attend, the majority again for various reasons won't be able to or won't have the same urge to due to health/mobility reasons etc.

All of which doesn't detract from my main point that the vast majority of this country who wouldve been able to attend 2018 will have no recollection of the 1966 hosting or at least would not have been able to really enjoy it to the full.

Did you study at the same University as Harold Shipman by any chance?

[den]

FIFA has a vision to take the World Cup to every part of the globe was JAL's point.

In that case why did we even bid? Why was Australia humilitated like we were?

Well I think JAL misunderstands the situation. While they understandably would want to take the "game of football" to as many new countries as possible, it isn't FIFA's intentions to take the "world cup" to new countries at "every" world cup competition. That hasn't been the case in the past, nor will it be the case in the future.

FIFA needs to be accountable to the football fans of the WC participating countries. It has to be open about it's processes, because at the moment, they are going through the motions and doing whatever they want to do.

I'm a bit surprised there isn't an opportunity for someone to ask about FIFA's processes in a court of law.

[thenodrog]

However what astounds me most is Australia not getting a world cup. To me it seems to tick every box, and imo, having never hosted a WC before is arguably a stronger bid then England. Assuming fifa's stance is true - we wanted a suitable place to hold it which has not had one before - then Australia is the ideal/logical/obvious place.

Still at all levels in football money talks and in some ways I'm a tad suprised I'm as shocked as I am by the oucome.

You've just answered your own question.

[thenodrog]

A journalist on Talksport has come out with a comment that the government are hoping mad over this failed bid and are in the coming weeks to start an independent inquiry into football governance in THIS country.

It makes you wonder has somebody at FIFA mentioned something about our football authorities to our government thats led them to take this action.

Maybe rather than criticising FIFA we should take a hard look at ourselves first.

Quite right the FA has presided over a spectacular set of disasters since the turn of the decade, namely

1. One goon after another being paid a Kings ransom (at least double the going rate for national managers of major footballing nations) and awarded ludicrously long contracts for presiding over increasingly abject and embarrassing World Cup and European performances.

2. Similar embarrassment over our bid being placed rock bottom of the WC list.

3. The siting, the design the bias and overall the cost of the Prawn Sandwich Stadium aka New Wembley.

[nicko]

The fuss about this thing is farcical.

What matters more is whether you have a team capable of winning it...or even qualifying.

What matters more is also the quality of the football you see every week.

It doesn't matter if the finals are in Russia or Qatar if your local game is crap.

And that's the way it is heading for England - as it did for Scotland a few years back.

THAT is what time and money should be spent on.

Finding and developing better players should be THE priorities not clowning around trying to win votes from bent organisations...you already have Eurovision for that kind of humiliation anyway.

One and only comment on the subject.

Good night.

[thenodrog]

Forgive me for being thick but does that article mean Quatar will take place underneath airconditioned stadiums with a roof on?

Surely that's reason for NOT holding the tournament there straight away.

Precisely Simon. Global warming, Kyoto agreement, Bio Fuels and cash incentives and targets in Europe to promote renewable energies and these goons think air conditioned Stadia are a good idea!!!

As I said if grass doesn't grow naturally inan area then WC tournaments should not be held there.

[dr_awol]

its clear that england and Australia deserved it the most. But i can understand why Russia got it, there OK at the sport, i cant understand the Quatar bid, maybe if it was a joint bid with another country i could understand, the twelve stadiums look amazing tho, will be a waste for some of them to be destroyed.

above all i just want the world cup to be played any where with good fackin football.

[thenodrog]

And there's the rub. If we all feel cheated, let down and that FIFA is totally corrupt then we should all stick to the courage of our convictions and not watch any WC qualifier either in the flesh or on the telly and not touch a scrap of merchandise nor buy a thing from WC corporate sponsors. Whingeing means nowt compared to hitting them in their wallets. But there is a fat chance of that happening isn't there? It'll all be forgotten in a week or two and the twisters will have triumphed.

btw ... The BBC shouldn't be vindicated as events seem to have proven them completely right. I could go as far as to suggest that if anyone does intend to watch the Russian WC on telly or in person should refrain from posting complaints on this thread.

[cletus]

Hope this cheers everyone up a bit.....

Hope it ####ing hurt!