[Archived] John Williams and Tom Finn going? (SSN believes so, BRFCS.COM believes otherwise))

[bonger 26]

Anyone close enough to ewood should get down there. i urge you to go down and let your feelings be known. this is not on at all. there should be a protest on satarday. this is the fans club no one should be able to come in and wreck our heritage

[yoda]

You just told me not to believe the SSN rumours.

My understanding was that the trustees decided on the available [or otherwise] budget. The manager and JW would then get down to drawing up a list of targets and JW would pursue and negotiate those deals.

James Cooper on SSN described us as Blackburn Wanderers FFS

[Hughesy]

Den's right the trust were not hands on. JW was responsible for all first team affairs, managers etc.

the Board...decided on managers in & out.....not this time granted.

Maji - you know your stuff around the coaches - what do you make of Steve Kean

[Ricky]

Have a look in the Steve Kean thread and you might just find your answer

[Parsonblue]

Also if the rumours are to be believed the Trustees sacked Ince whilst JW was prepared to give him more time.

I have heard the exact opposite from a very reliable source that JW believed that time was up for Ince after the Wigan debacle. JW and TF did an enormous amount of work to keep this club competitive in the Premier League. Somehow I just don't see Mrs. Desai and her brothers having the same success.

[roversfan1]

This is turning into a complete nightmare. Two days ago we were looking at going to Bolton and getting a good result, which could have taken us to 7th in the league. Now we have no manager, no one lined up and our chairman looks set to quit and we are fearing for the future of the club. These people have just reinforced their own opinion that they know nothing about football. People like John Williams must be banging their heads against a wall with these people because they have no clue what they are doing.

- When they took over they made a statement outlining their promises for the club and one of these was the ongoing support of the current management team. Well they have broken that promise already. They've said that they've been thinking that Sam wasn't the right man for the job for some time. So they must have held these beliefs before they bought the club, so they have already lied to us.

- Before the Bolton game, we were 4th in the form table and are just about to move into the Christmas period, where we have a number of favourable games, starting with West Ham on Saturday giving us the chance to move further up the table. This is possibly the worst timing for sacking the manager and again highlights these peoples total lack of understanding of football.

- They don't have a replacement lined up and say that it could take a couple of months to find the right person! Well in a couple of months we could be in the relegation zone, fighting for survival.

- They say that they want to finish fourth or fifth! Well don't we all! But back in the real world, this isn't going to happen with the players we have, the lack of money that Sam has had to spend on players and it certainly won't be happening now we have no manager. Are these people on drugs? Do they really think that we are going to finish 4th or 5th this season? This again points to the total lack of football knowledge that they have. You don't just change a team over night. It takes years of continual growth through transfers, player development, team gelling, increased crowds and more global awareness of the team. This isn't Championship Manager, it doesn't work like that.

- This idea of instant success is something that rests very uneasily with most right minded supporters. Why, after years of punching above or weight and performing miracles to finish in the positions we have, do we have to finish 4th or 5th? Yes in the long run that would be nice. But why do they see that as being an instant priority? We should be looking to survive first and finish in the top 10 like last season. If the owners felt that Sam had taken us far enough, then looking elsewhere in the summer would have been the time to do it. Again this idea that we need to be playing open attractive football and finish in the top five is Championship Manager stuff and again highlights the owners lack of football logic.

- The owners say that they have the best interests of the club at heart. They've only been here 20 odd days and in less than 24 hours, they have managed to rip apart one of the best run clubs in the league, which has been a model for consistency, stability and how to survive on a shoe string budget. This isn't having the clubs best interests at heart.

- The whole business with Kentaro was always going to lead to problems. Kentaro are only interested in having their players bought and sold to make money from it. This is an automatic conflict of interest no matter who is the manager. And if they see the likes of Geovanni and Kris Boyd being the answer to getting us into the top four, then they are bigger mugs than I thought.

- What future manager is going to want to be dictated to about transfers by the owners, on advise given by a company that is only looking after it's own interests? You can imagine John Williams pleading with them do things a certain way in terms of transfers and them not taking a blind bit of notice, because they are the owners, they do what they want and this is how things are now.

- When you are new owners with a total lack of football understanding, you should be taking the advise of the people from within the club on how things should be done. You should be humble, patient and smart enough to know that it will take some time to turn a club like Blackburn Rovers around. People like John Williams have the clubs best interests at heart and would know that to progress, it's best to do it slowly and systematically.

I was all for Blackburn getting taken over, but was always concerned that any new owner would start rocking the boat and have unrealistic expectations for a club of our size. Whenever Venky's bought us and released their statement with their vision for the future of the club, then I felt reassured that things would carry on as normal and that we were in safe hands. However it seems like the wool has been pulled over our eyes. They've taken a very risk and one that could have catastrophic effects if it doesn't work out. The only acceptable outcome from this is if we have a top class manager like Martin O'Neill and finish in the top half of the table. Otherwise all of this will have been for nothing.

Spot on!! Sums up what I wanted to say perfectly...

[benhben]

Now he has been sacked - the same people are saying WHY.

Ive always disliked Allardyce teams since his Bolton days. Personally though I would have parted company at the end of the season or when were safe from relegation.

Its more concerning the way the new owners seem to be going about things.

On a side note, if Allardyce took over England, I would never watch them again.

[philipl]

All credit to Venky's, they are at least trying to persuade JW and TF to change their minds and stay.

A good sign that at least there is some willingness to listen, learn and understand. I fear the situation is too far gone and that they should have listened to JW during the hours of arm twisting to get him to dispense with SA yesterday.

The biggest credit goes to JW for the outstanding professionalism with which he has handled a succession of potentially extremely difficult situations at Ewood this morning. If Venky's did not understand the stature and integrity of the man before, they certainly do now.

'drog's posts on the matter this morning are inaccurate and totally demeaning.

[Jan]

I've been away from the Messageboard for a while with more important things to attend to, so I've just read this thread. What seems clear is that these investors haven't a clue what they're doing. I don't care if they're Asian or green with pink spots, but leaving the club in charge of a puppet at the most important time of the year smacks of amateurism.

I can't be at Ewood on Saturday- I'm on holiday -but a protest would be a good thing, if totally ineffective. They have the cash and can afford the club. We don't and can't- yet. If it's any consolation (it probably isn't) but when these idiots grow tired of their mistakes it'll be worth so little that we probably can afford to take it over. (we'll be in league 2)

I have a suspicion that they'll appoint someone who "is terribly good at FIFA 2010" (or whatever it's called) that they can control. And then they'll wonder why fewer people attend and they're losing matches. Prepare for embarrassments coming one after the other.

On the other hand, if they bring in Martin O'Neill/Jol and fully fund him, they're geniuses.

Ps it's gratifying to see that the Ince lovers are still in a little cabale making stupid statements about Sam. Little changes.

[Majiball]

the Board...decided on managers in & out.....not this time granted.

Maji - you know your stuff around the coaches - what do you make of Steve Kean

He's a strong coach there's no doubting that. My major concern is that its never easy to switch from one role to the other within the same club. Its proven in the main to be a disaster at this level whether they are coming in or being promoted. He's been hunted by clubs to take them over so people obviously see him having the potential to be the head man. He's spent time in spain and its very rare for any British bloke to work there regardless. He was being considered to be the No.2 with Scolari at Chelsea, but I think that was more to do with his language skills than his coaching skills.

I don't know his footballing ethos, but you would have to assume he's along similar lines to Sam since he employed him. I suspect we'll still try and remain hard to beat but expect the way we try and counter once we get the ball will change distinctly.

[True Blue & White]

I'm also one of those who wasn't a Sam fan but is now asking "why".

Not liking Sam or his style of football doesn't mean you want to see your own team put in jeopardy and that you'd be happy to see him sacked even if it meant your own team's immediate downfall. Yes, I was in favour of an Allardyce-free Blackburn but under carefully planned circumstances (unless we had a Sugar Daddy).

For example, if we had a ready made replacement and owners willing to give him tens of millions to spend I would support the sacking (although would have handled it a lot better!) but what we have a a group that sacked him coz they didn't fancy having someone in Charge through the window that may want buy some players.

[Exiled in Toronto]

What JW will have control over though is the marketing and general running of the club. He was kinf of like the Chief Councilor of a town who gets his budget given to him each year and it's up to him to use it how he sees fit to keep the ship going. Under Venky's though he may be more like a factory supervisor where he has no real power or control of money and who's management is reduced to relaying unpopular messages from above under the illusion of being 'important'.

...apologies to any factory supervisors btw.

Under the Trust was rather a unique situation in that the owners weren't interested, so JW did have rather more latitude than would normally be expected for a mere employee. IF he had worked for say, Whelan, he wouldn't have been picking new managers and so on. Under new, hands-on owners - no matter who they were - he was always going to have a more limited role. Whether he likes that or not is up to him.

Personally, I would have thought they would want to keep him primarily for his contacts and influence at the Premier League. Having kept us stable the last few years is not what the new owners are looking to repeat so wouldn't count for much. No new major sources of income were found; the wage bill is too high; the overdraft was run up; appointing his son as head of sales and marketing would have raised eyebrows, so, in the eyes of owners who are complete outsiders, he doesn't have a compelling case to keep running the club as was and just report into Pune twice a year.

[Jackson]

Well if they are going, at least we won't have Kris and Geo on 5 year contracts. Silver lining and that.

[True Blue & White]

Under the Trust was rather a unique situation in that the owners weren't interested, so JW did have rather more latitude than would normally be expected for a mere employee. IF he had worked for say, Whelan, he wouldn't have been picking new managers and so on. Under new, hands-on owners - no matter who they were - he was always going to have a more limited role. Whether he likes that or not is up to him.

Personally, I would have thought they would want to keep him primarily for his contacts and influence at the Premier League. Having kept us stable the last few years is not what the new owners are looking to repeat so wouldn't count for much. No new major sources of income were found; the wage bill is too high; the overdraft was run up; appointing his son as head of sales and marketing would have raised eyebrows, so, in the eyes of owners who are complete outsiders, he doesn't have a compelling case to keep running the club as was and just report into Pune twice a year.

I agree and to clarify I was never saying he did (have a compelling case to keep running the club as was and just report into Pune twice a year) just stating the reality of his change of role for another poster.

[RoyRover]

I'm also one of those who wasn't a Sam fan but is now asking "why".

Not liking Sam or his style of football doesn't mean you want to see your own team put in jeopardy and that you'd be happy to see him sacked even if it meant your own team's immediate downfall. Yes, I was in favour of an Allardyce-free Blackburn but under carefully planned circumstances (unless we had a Sugar Daddy).

For example, if we had a ready made replacement and owners willing to give him tens of millions to spend I would support the sacking (although would have handled it a lot better!) but what we have a a group that sacked him coz they didn't fancy having someone in Charge through the window that may want buy some players.

That's how I feel. I haven't been Sam's biggest fan and have hated the style of football. However it's more important that we stay in the Premiership and if that means lumping the ball into the box and winning 1-0 then ok. I won't enjoy it, but I'll feel a lot worse if we go down, than if we win ugly each week. Not giving him a chance to spend any money on good quality players that could make us a more attractive team to watch is also rashly unfair.

[Valois]

I think it's safe to say we are now a club in absolute turmoil. Yesterday I was shocked at BFS sacking, however still felt optimistic, and was confident somebody had already been lined up to come straight in, and they would be backed with money in the transfer window. However it now seems clear, non of this has been thought through at all. JW and TF leaving is disasterous for the club, and the road ahead is bleak.We now have owners who clearly do not have the club in the best interest. Laughable statements released, "we want to be in the top 5", "it may take 2 months to install a new manager", "We want a british coach"??? I'm pretty sure we all want a British Coach, and obviously we want a top 5 finish, but having a caretaker manager in Steve Kean incharge for months, and JW and TF gone, we will be lucky to avoid relegation im afraid.

I'm normally a very positive peron, and always try and turn a negative into a positive, but i'm struggling here. The whole spirit and ethos of Blackburn Rovers has been undeermined in the last 24 hours. I was looking forward going to my first game at Ewood Park in over 2 years having been living in Australia, and now all I feel is resentment to our new Mickey Mouse owners.

Prepare for a shocking appointment, and some shocking transfers ahead.

[alexanders]

I think it's safe to say we are now a club in absolute turmoil. Yesterday I was shocked at BFS sacking, however still felt optimistic, and was confident somebody had already been lined up to come straight in, and they would be backed with money in the transfer window. However it now seems clear, non of this has been thought through at all. JW and TF leaving is disasterous for the club, and the road ahead is bleak.We now have owners who clearly do not have the club in the best interest. Laughable statements released, "we want to be in the top 5", "it may take 2 months to install a new manager", "We want a british coach"??? I'm pretty sure we all want a British Coach, and obviously we want a top 5 finish, but having a caretaker manager in Steve Kean incharge for months, and JW and TF gone, we will be lucky to avoid relegation im afraid.

I'm normally a very positive peron, and always try and turn a negative into a positive, but i'm struggling here. The whole spirit and ethos of Blackburn Rovers has been undeermined in the last 24 hours. I was looking forward going to my first game at Ewood Park in over 2 years having been living in Australia, and now all I feel is resentment to our new Mickey Mouse owners.

Prepare for a shocking appointment, and some shocking transfers ahead.

If you want to stay positive you should start at reading the dismissal of JW and TF's departure.

[Valois]

If you want to stay positive you should start at reading the dismissal of JW and TF's departure.

You have lost me there? Thats exactly what I was talking about, and how would that keep me positive? Sorry you've stumped me here.

[Iceman]

396 MB users at 9am! Must be a record, is anyone working out there?

This is more important than work.... JW is a legend, and Venkys can (Please don't use that word again) off. Do the right thing guys and protest, and show your disapproval of this. Enough is enough right now. How dare they come and destroy the club like this, this club was built with sheer hard work, and respect for all concerned.

Jerome Andersen is the cause for all this crap, he is clearly a misleading figure(i know this will be removed), but good grief, wtf is going on.

[alexanders]

JW and Tom Finn are not gone.

[gumboots]

You have lost me there? Thats exactly what I was talking about, and how would that keep me positive? Sorry you've stumped me here.

He means they haven't gone yet and there are rumours they aren't going just as there are rumours they are.

[ada2020]

This is more important than work.... JW is a legend, and Venkys can (Please don't use that word again) off. Do the right thing guys and protest, and show your disapproval of this. Enough is enough right now. How dare they come and destroy the club like this, this club was built with sheer hard work, and respect for all concerned.

Jerome Andersen is the cause for all this crap, he is clearly a misleading figure(i know this will be removed), but good grief, wtf is going on.

How on earth do you know that?

Wild accusations, calm down a bit.

The picture right now looks very, very messy, but this week and the controversy isnt over yet I dont think.

Not having a go at you Iceman, just take a deep breath.

[Flopsy]

[T4E]

You've changed your tune somewhat T4E. Were you on the pop last night?

I haven't changed my tune in the slightest. My first post on the subject yesterday expressed concern about JW, but as at the time that was just me speculating with no info whatsoever, I moved on.

If JW stays and pledges to help with this transition, then I remain positive about the future. If he goes I will be apprehensive. Last night all we had done was sack our manager and made a brief statement about wanting to show more ambition. I'm all for that. I would be foolish to ignore the mixed signals today and be atleast a little concerned. However, I'm still willing to wait and see what happens, in the hope that we manage to appoint a name that instills confidence and we make some good signings in January.

[Paul]

I'm not, but after a gut-wrenching two hours I think I'll just leave the site alone till this calms down.

See you Saturday - in the stand or on the concourse, depending on if there's a protest or not.

Judging by skimming a few threads this was a good decision. Truth of the matter is, as usual, the only safe thing to do is wait for the official version on the club website or perhaps the LET. I went to sleep thinking about Maradonna (the usual red top stuff) and woke up to read JW and TF are gone (the usual scaremongering rumour from another reliable media source).

Should the worst happen I will, on Saturday, join any sensible protest - I like the idea of staying in the concourse, it would make a point and create chaos - and I shall get out my 1994/95 shirt, make a black armband and wear this as a personal protest.

Till then we need to chill because the only official information we have is the Desai interview in the LET and frankly that's beyond a joke. Venky's clearly do not have a clue what they have walked into and that they are unwilling to take advice from JW shows their naievity and / or arrogance. From the very little I know of Indian culture the "he's got to go so it may as well be now" attitude is pretty typical.