[Archived] John Williams and Tom Finn going? (SSN believes so, BRFCS.COM believes otherwise))

[tony gale's mic]

For God's sake, please cease with this illogical tripe. No business or businessman rich enough to buy a Premiership team is about failure, but how many have failed?

Yeah exactly.

Any post that even tries to compare running a Premier League club to ANY other business, except maybe another sports team, is redundant.

Other businesses so different to football clubs for so many reasons that I can't even list right now.

As you rightly point out, no one gets enough money together to buy a PL football club whose lives have been a failure. People don't even make 1 or 2 million if their lives have been a failure, unless they've inherited it.

That hasn't stopped some terrible owners over the years.

[roversmum]

So it's okay to put up with the illogical tripe that many others are posting, but not mine? No need to be so rude, that is my opinion. Just give over the throat slitting and use a bit of sense.

Okay, failure - so what is 'failure'? Being relegated? They have enough money to put into players to ensure that we bounce right up again. The club belongs to the family, not the business, so if the business should run into difficulty (unlikely, but in case) - it won't affect us. The family have money.

There has been plenty of moaning about the Trust, and surely we all realise the way we were going with them withdrawing funding? Now we have funding. We have a future.

Give these guys a chance, it may be painful in the short term, we may not like aspects of it, but if you don't fancy the ride, then get off of it.

[philipl]

Whatever has or has not happened today, it looks very much like John Williams and Tom Finn are staying with Rovers.

And I for one am mightily relieved.

[True Blue & White]

So it's okay to put up with the illogical tripe that many others are posting, but not mine? No need to be so rude, that is my opinion. Just give over the throat slitting and use a bit of sense.

Okay, failure - so what is 'failure'? Being relegated? They have enough money to put into players to ensure that we bounce right up again. The club belongs to the family, not the business, so if the business should run into difficulty (unlikely, but in case) - it won't affect us. The family have money.

There has been plenty of moaning about the Trust, and surely we all realise the way we were going with them withdrawing funding? Now we have funding. We have a future.

Give these guys a chance, it may be painful in the short term, we may not like aspects of it, but if you don't fancy the ride, then get off of it.

Seems you're the one who hasn't read up on Venky's because anyone's who's seen their last yearly report wouldn't say that. And I mean seen it, not read the mis-quote from teh LET which they later retracted after I emailed them.

[Parsonblue]

Why on earth would Venky's spend millions of pounds on a club allegedly to destroy it? How many of you have done your research to see what Venky's is actually about? The criticisms about Sam on these boards recently have reached a new level, yet all at once he is a God and should not have been sacked. Five points from the relegation zone - and a new owner who wants to see us at the very least in the top five? Please. Yes, there are many points of view, but I believe the intended scenario for Rovers is way beyond what we could ever dream of.

Venky's may have much to learn regarding football management, but of one thing I am sure, and that is they are not about failure.

The problem roversmum is that getting into the top five is going to cost and there is nothing and has been nothing to suggest that Venkys have the sort of money to compete with Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester United, Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur. That's five clubs who, when push comes to shove, will always outspend us. So now Mrs Desai is looking at sixth at best and it's going to cost them millions to get anywhere near it. The American owner at Aston Villa spent millions trying to break into that top four before he had to call a halt to his spending as he was unable to break into that elite group. Does Mrs Desai have the money? There is nothing to suggest it. Does she have a plan? Keeping Steve Kean in charge for two months suggests not. In getting rid of Sam at this juncture they have gambled on getting rid of a safe pair of hands and replacing him for two months - two very critical months - with an untried manager and serious question marks hanging over the future roles for Tom Finn and John Williams. The callous way in which Mrs Desai instructed John Williams to sack Sam, clearly she didn't have the stomach to fly over here and do the job herself, suggests that the club I have supported since 1961 has changed beyond all recognition within a few short weeks. Suddenly, from being a club that always did things the right way, we now seem to be going down the Newcastle way of doing things.

Venky's may not believe that they about failure but they won't be the first to buy into a football club and come a cropper. As so many have said over the years, football is not like any other business and if Mrs. Desai thinks that running a Premier League football club is similar to her chicken business she is in for a rude awakening. She has bought the club as a marketing tool first and foremost. The club's main function now is to promote Venky's worldwide and a club that finished tenth last season and reached a major cup semi-final - all on a shoestring budget - no doubt seemed the ideal acquistion. Unfortunately, she has just sacked the guy who guided us into that position.

[Pete1981]

Paul Plunkett on twitter

PaulPlunkettLT Paul Plunkett

We should get some John Williams news hopefully in the next hour #rovers

[sparkspakespoke]

For God's sake, please cease with this illogical tripe. No business or businessman rich enough to buy a Premiership team is about failure, but how many have failed?

Roversmum put foward a well reason and logically argument and you rudely dismiss it in two lines and shes the one talking tripe? Sheesh...

[PAFELL]

Reneging on their promises to the fans and the board just a few weeks after their purchase has been completed.

What promises have they reneged on? Do we know what promises have been made? They've sacked Sam - was it ever promised to him the job for life? They did say, if I remember that they were not going to change the manager - for now. they have said there will be changes after a month of the takeover - they have done so, they have made changes.

[Roversider]

So it's okay to put up with the illogical tripe that many others are posting, but not mine? No need to be so rude, that is my opinion. Just give over the throat slitting and use a bit of sense.

Okay, failure - so what is 'failure'? Being relegated? They have enough money to put into players to ensure that we bounce right up again. The club belongs to the family, not the business, so if the business should run into difficulty (unlikely, but in case) - it won't affect us. The family have money.

There has been plenty of moaning about the Trust, and surely we all realise the way we were going with them withdrawing funding? Now we have funding. We have a future.

Give these guys a chance, it may be painful in the short term, we may not like aspects of it, but if you don't fancy the ride, then get off of it.

Fully endorse your comments. Venky's are putting their money in and as such we have a different future than under the Trust (thanks are due to them for their stewardship but times move on). We need to go forward. What is it about football that causes all sanity to go out of the window amongst fans. It's either 'we're all doomed' or 'we'll win the league'. I am glad the real boss of Venky's (the one wearing a sari) is taking an active interest. I remember several independent commentators saying how critical it was for the success of the deal that she took a leading role.

Are we surprised about Sam? It struck me that there was going to be a decision point sometime and Sam wanted total control. However he was still an employee, effectively playing poker with the owners money. He also was not shy at posturing in the press. In his defence he probably felt this was the decisive point to bring it to a head. He will be walking away with a pocketful of cash and I am sure he will be a candidate at some other club.

If John Williams and Tom Finn are staying that is a good sign. If not, well the world will keep turning. I hope they do stay, we need some stability. I just hope that there are some communications from the club in the meantime.

[John]

The boss of Venky's may be taking an active interest as you put it - however she said it herself, she knows little about football and it appears clear Kentaro are also taking very active interest.

[Steve Moss]

True but the way philip puts it, everyone else was saying Kentaro/Venky's were going to be great and him and a few others were the sole ones saying they were going to be terrible.

I personally thought, and think, that the Trust did very well by us when it came to management, waiving fees and not plundering the club. However, that only takes you so far. When the Trust decided to sell to Venkys I was hopeful. I was sure that the Trust would do its due diligence and safeguard Jack Walker's legacy. And Venkys appeared ambitious coupled with a business brain.

When I caught sight of the Rao brothers, I couldn't but help think "Leisure Suit Larry". However, appearances can be decieving and maybe there are brilliant business minds behind the subjective appearances.

When Venky's started to talk about entertaining football, mid-season and prior to additional investment, I became worried.

When Venkys said Sam and JW were safe, even though Sam was on 'probation' (my word), I became less worried.

When Venkys fired Sam in the middle of December with important matches coming up, despite a good string of games and with a liklihood of more, I was worried again.

When the basis of that firing was Sam's unwillingness to play ball on alleged lousy transfer proposals, I was very worried.

When Venkys was rumored to be hiring Maradona and someone with a stable brain as replacements, and when Nicko reported the ruomor that substantial funds might be available, I was verging on believing them marketing geniuses and popping the cork on the champagne.

When Venkys stated that it could be months before they hired another manager, I was worried again, with the small ray of sunshine in that Kean might be a brilliant decision (currently unknown how he'll handle the step up).

When JW was rumored to be resigning, I went into full panic mode.

Even if JW is now staying, I'm still in worry mode. At this point, and considering the roller coaster ride I've been through, I have no trust in Venkys' skill in marketing (look what they're doing to the fans), football management (firing a steady hand without a solid replacement is not reassuring), or Venkys themselves (Sam is safe [for now] to fired (and Venkys apparently had reservations all along) in a matter of weeks does their credibility no good).

I support the Rovers and will be glued to the West Ham game, hoping for a win. But I have no confidence in our future. I hope Venkys can get this resolved to everyone's satisfaction in the coming weeks and I can look back at my current mental state and think to myself "Steve, you're a little girl. Let's go drink some whiskey and grow a few manly hairs."

[LWX]

The boss of Venky's may be taking an active interest as you put it - however she said it herself, she knows little about football and it appears clear Kentaro are also taking very active interest.

Yup, this whole Kentaro is business is sickening!

[philipl]

What promises have they reneged on? Do we know what promises have been made? They've sacked Sam - was it ever promised to him the job for life? They did say, if I remember that they were not going to change the manager - for now. they have said there will be changes after a month of the takeover - they have done so, they have made changes.

Pete please give it a rest- this is naive in the extreme.

[Paul]

Well I have some connection and as I posted earlier there were no Venkys representatives meeting either Tom or John mid morning (fact) and I think Hughesy posted that they were not meeting at lunchtime either (don't know whether that's fact but he does know someone in the office). There were apparently some people in from Venkys yesterday talking to the marketing team about future plans but who had nothing to do with Sam's sacking. My best guess is that these guys have been in again today and some lazy journalists have put two and two together and got five. Of course something could have happened this afternoon but nothing was expected this morning, and this was well after the rumours started that they had gone and/or were discussing compensation inside Ewood.

Right this will do for me. JW / TF are not leaving, that's clear. I've now heard this from two different sources both of which I would trust implicitly.

How long they stay is a different discussion. I hope Mrs Desai gets a feel of the anguish Venky's actions can cause.

Memo to self - go back to disbelieving all the nonsense published by the commercial media which ultimately has no motive other than profit.

[BuckyRover]

<br />Whatever has or has not happened today, it looks very much like John Williams and Tom Finn are staying with Rovers.<br /><br />And I for one am mightily relieved. <img src='http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/public/style_emoticons/default/rover.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

Maybe nothing happened.

[imy9]

I have refrained from posting all day because the hysteria is getting ridiculous.

I have to remind myself that I support Blackburn Rovers FC, a club that is bigger than Sam Allardyce, John Williams, Venkys and even the great Jack Walker. It WILL be around long after Venkys have gone.

So they fired Sam? They want to market the club worldwide and his brand of football does not match up with their vision- timing is wrong in my eyes but hey.

Venkys have spent nearly £50 million on Blackburn Rovers FC, that means that there will be changes on and off the pitch, the transition period will be painful but I am sure John Williams understands this as he did fire Tony Parkes did he not, a man associated with Rovers for decades. Football business is a tough one.

Lets see what happens and I am in keeping with what Ms Desai says "trust us", a failing club serves them no purpose, reading what Nicko has been saying it looks like there will be quite a lot of money available so lets wait and see...

[modes98]

I posted earlier there were no Venkys representatives meeting either Tom or John.

Well Sky showed the "Venky's" guys arriving at Ewood and JW as well. It would seem very strange that the day after sacking the manager there would be no meeting between the owners and the chairmen about how to go about appointing a new manager at the very least. Unless of course they already know who they want or would rather talk to Kentaro about it. Eitherway they don't appear to be using Mr Williams to his full abilities or using his extensive Blackburn Rovers and Football knowledge.

[philipl]

That could have been the Venky's marketing team who are working behind the scenes now at Ewood.

[den]

Well Sky showed the "Venky's" guys arriving at Ewood and JW as well. It would seem very strange that the day after sacking the manager there would be no meeting between the owners and the chairmen about how to go about appointing a new manager at the very least. Unless of course they already know who they want or would rather talk to Kentaro about it. Eitherway they don't appear to be using Mr Williams to his full abilities or using his extensive Blackburn Rovers and Football knowledge.

The owners aren't in the country at the moment. They have sent their representatives to attend meetings with JW and TF.

[blue/white]

Has anybody else wondered how the first team squad are going to react to all this on Saturday? I've never worked for a company which has been taken over so I don't know. Will they need extra motivation for the W. Ham game; or will they feel that the club that now pays them isn't the same one they joined, and that some [many?] of them will be shipped out to make way for Venky's new acquisitions, so there's no point?

I didn't hear the Jason Roberts interview; but I did hear a clip of Ryan Nelson being interviewed yesterday - he's a bright bloke; didn't he get some Business degree in the US before he joined us? - to me, he sounded both worried and sort-of resigned to the way the football industry now works.

I agree with what T4E's just posted.

Ryan attended Stanford Univ. in Palo Alto, CA--no idea if he has his degree thou-- UCal @ Berkeley and Stanford are commonly referred to as West Coast Ivy League institutions. He's a bright lad indeed.

[pksrover]

Ryan attended Stanford Univ. in Palo Alto, CA--no idea if he has his degree thou-- UCal @ Berkeley and Stanford are commonly referred to as West Coast Ivy League institutions. He's a bright lad indeed.

I'm 99% sure that Ryan Nelsen got a Sport Science degree from Uni in the US

[PAFELL]

please give it a rest- this is naive in the extreme.

It is not extreme. Until the Venky's - and I hope that day never comes - do real damage to the club I will go along with what they are doing. It's maybe a painful rollercoaster ride at the moment. But one promise we were given was, we will see real changes after a month of the takeover. We saw that yesterday. We may not like it. But managers come and go. I will first watch and wait to see where they are taking the club, before I condemn them. Sacking Sam was a strange choice, but many on here have called for his head many a time, especially after the spurs and man u games.

All I am trying to do is remain positive with regards to the club. I am looking at things from both sides of the fence. If that is being naive, so be it.

[roversmum]

No, he didn't. Ryan Nelsen got a Political Science degree, I remember discussing it with him at one of the Disabled Supporters Parties.

Well said, Pafell.

[blue/white]

Whatever has or has not happened today, it looks very much like John Williams and Tom Finn are staying with Rovers.

And I for one am mightily relieved.

No idea where you obtain your info, PL..... but your relief is seconded over here.

Fingers crossed that is indeed the case.

Having JW around makes the other changes a bit easier to digest - everyone needs a touchstone after all.

[PAFELL]

No, he didn't. Ryan Nelsen got a Political Science degree, I remember discussing it with him at one of the Disabled Supporters Parties.

Well said, Pafell.

My view is that at the moment I am sitting on the fence and seeing what develops. I am not wanting to take sides, just yet.

Venky's sacked Sam - I am neither happy or sad about it. They have given their reasons why via the LET. it may not be something some of us like - but it has been done, right or wrong, it is a done deed. The club as well as ourselves have to move on.

The Venky's will already know that some are not happy with Sam's sacking. but it is now over to them to show us why they think they are right in what they did.

The situation with JW is good also. As it looks like they want to keep hold of him - that is good. But as he threatened to resign (if this was true) and if there were discussions taking place to persuade him to stay. It means he would have been allowed to voice his opinion, get his point across. Which should help both the Venky's and the club. This is what I hope anyway.