[Archived] John Williams and Tom Finn going? (SSN believes so, BRFCS.COM believes otherwise))

[thenodrog]

Most people will go because they are not bigoted idiots.

If that was directed at me I'd like you to explain that statement,

[RevidgeBlue]

Please define 'The Club' Simon. Lets be honest, 'The Club' is no longer our club is it? Good footballing men sacked in the last fortnight Wilkins, Houghton, Allardyce and now poss JW and TF. making way for the Kentaro's, the Venkey's, the Joorbaichim's and the Tevez's. Right now I feel like getting off at the very next station. If I don't then I'll be like a Venkey chicken meekly hanging around whilst they pull my neck out.

Fair play to the real reds of Manchester......FC Rovers anyone?

Twas ever thus, it's the owner's club not our club whether it be run by Jack Walker/The Trustees/Venky's/Bill Fox or Bill Bancroft. They do what they want at the end of the day.

It's completely naive to think otherwise although certain owners might pay a bit more attention to the views of the fans than others and JW and TF are admittedly very good in that respect but I doubt many fans wanted a net 16m worth of talent sold in the last summer window but one - which sort of illustrates my point.

[GiddyGoat]

Well SSN want to get the news correct.....AS OF 2 minutes ago, both where in their offices as normal, not in any meetings at the moment!!

If they where seen at the stationary cupboard stocking up on pens and envelopes its sure sign that they are leaving.

[BuckyRover]

If that was directed at me I'd like you to explain that statement,

It was when you said that any Indian investor is untrustworthy and should be treated as such.

Happy to help

[RevidgeBlue]

Even if John Williams and Tom Finn stay, what roles are they going to have? Venky and Kentaro will make the important decisions and John and Tom will simply deliver them.

With all due respect to John and Tom would that not exactly describe their roles under the previous owners?

[Athlete]

The interview in the LT that Mrs. Desai gave suggests that her knowledge of football is nil. The woman talks about putting Kean in charge for a "couple of months" - obviously as he's said to be on Kentaro's books - at the most vital point of the season. An untried and untested manager whose main qualification seems to be that Kentaro and their associates are said to be his agents. She then asks people to trust her. To cook a chicken dinner perhaps, to run a Premier League club, sorry, I have no trust in her ability or her knowledge. If they had a replacement for Sam in mind, if they had outlined a plan, a vision for the future - apart from chasing publicity to sell more chickens - I might have been more sympathetic but there is nothing in the interview that can give anyone any confidence in these people. To talk about finishing fourth or fifth in the League is a joke, unless they are suddenly going to spend £100 million or more and that certainly isn't going to happen.

Even if John Williams and Tom Finn stay, what roles are they going to have? Venky and Kentaro will make the important decisions and John and Tom will simply deliver them. Are either of them going to be content with the role of glorified messengerboy?

At least we are now challenging for one title. We would appear to be challenging Newcastle United for who can become the biggest laughing stock in the Premier League.

The interview that Mrs. Desai gave the LT was totally inadequate in explaining why the manager needed to be replaced at this moment in time. She has given no appraisal of the League at his moment in time, she seems to fail to understand that a run of poor results in December and January could seriously threatened our Premier League safety. She seems blissfully unware that her actions may well destablise the club at the most important point of the season. She talks about winning in an entertaining manner but then doesn't explain how she plans to deliver that aim. All she can do is ask people to trust her. Sorry Mrs. Desai but trust comes from actions not words and so far both your actions and words are leaving me cold.

just looks like what I feared a few weeks ago we are becoming a joke club !

[den]

With all due respect to John and Tom would that not exactly describe their roles under the previous owners?

No. Under the trustees, JW and TF were in charge of the football side of things Simon.

[thenodrog]

Twas ever thus, it's the owner's club not our club whether it be run by Jack Walker/The Trustees/Venky's/Bill Fox or Bill Bancroft. They do what they want at the end of the day.

It's completely naive to think otherwise although certain owners might pay a bit more attention to the views of the fans than others and JW and TF are admittedly very good in that respect but I doubt many fans wanted a net 16m worth of talent sold in the last summer window but one - which sort of illustrates my point.

20m in debt. An earnings to income ration the worst in the Prem. I'd assume bills needed paying to balance the books Simon. We all wanted cheapo tickets didn't we? Remember our club was being run by responsible professionals not Gordon Brown and New Labour.

From what I have read and my own experiences I'd imagine that JW will be being offered a bonus of a small fortune to stay as a Venky puppet just until summer to try and calm the waters. If thats the case he'll be tempted to stay cos it'll represent his last chance of a big draw. The ball will be in his court imo, it's a basic right and wrong morals v financial necessity. Whatever happens won't divert Kentaro's from their chosen route. They will be pulling all the strings.

[MWGR2]

The interview in the LT that Mrs. Desai gave suggests that her knowledge of football is nil. The woman talks about putting Kean in charge for a "couple of months" - obviously as he's said to be on Kentaro's books - at the most vital point of the season. An untried and untested manager whose main qualification seems to be that Kentaro and their associates are said to be his agents. She then asks people to trust her. To cook a chicken dinner perhaps, to run a Premier League club, sorry, I have no trust in her ability or her knowledge. If they had a replacement for Sam in mind, if they had outlined a plan, a vision for the future - apart from chasing publicity to sell more chickens - I might have been more sympathetic but there is nothing in the interview that can give anyone any confidence in these people. To talk about finishing fourth or fifth in the League is a joke, unless they are suddenly going to spend £100 million or more and that certainly isn't going to happen.

Even if John Williams and Tom Finn stay, what roles are they going to have? Venky and Kentaro will make the important decisions and John and Tom will simply deliver them. Are either of them going to be content with the role of glorified messengerboy?

At least we are now challenging for one title. We would appear to be challenging Newcastle United for who can become the biggest laughing stock in the Premier League.

The interview that Mrs. Desai gave the LT was totally inadequate in explaining why the manager needed to be replaced at this moment in time. She has given no appraisal of the League at his moment in time, she seems to fail to understand that a run of poor results in December and January could seriously threatened our Premier League safety. She seems blissfully unware that her actions may well destablise the club at the most important point of the season. She talks about winning in an entertaining manner but then doesn't explain how she plans to deliver that aim. All she can do is ask people to trust her. Sorry Mrs. Desai but trust comes from actions not words and so far both your actions and words are leaving me cold.

Absolutely. I completely agree. She obviously has no idea. She has also reneged on the promises made when buying the club. I am embarrassed for us.

[BuckyRover]

No. Under the trustees, JW and TF were in charge of the football side of things Simon.

I though member of the Trust flew over last season to discuss Allardyce's under performance?

[roversnick]

can we change the title of this thread to refelct reality

[RevidgeBlue]

No. Under the trustees, JW and TF were in charge of the football side of things Simon.

Well I'll have to agree to disagree on that one. If Sam said he wanted to bring in Peter Crouch JW might well have been in agreement but would have had absolutely no say in the matter.

Also if the rumours are to be believed the Trustees sacked Ince whilst JW was prepared to give him more time.

[thenodrog]

It was when you said that any Indian investor is untrustworthy and should be treated as such.

Happy to help

So go on who would you rather buy a second hand car off.... Shah? Saeed, or this bloody lot? Doubts and question marks over the lot of them imo. I don't think there is one fit to mend another.

I'll take this no further as you are young and still a little wet behind the ears. You WILL come to amend your happy clappy opinions as most with an open mind and a modicum of above average intelligence do.

[BuckyRover]

But Rev, saying that doesn't reflect badly on Venky's. So from now on we will say that JW did EVERYTHING.

Regardless of whether it's true or not

[RoyRover]

This is turning into a complete nightmare. Two days ago we were looking at going to Bolton and getting a good result, which could have taken us to 7th in the league. Now we have no manager, no one lined up and our chairman looks set to quit and we are fearing for the future of the club. These people have just reinforced their own opinion that they know nothing about football. People like John Williams must be banging their heads against a wall with these people because they have no clue what they are doing.

- When they took over they made a statement outlining their promises for the club and one of these was the ongoing support of the current management team. Well they have broken that promise already. They've said that they've been thinking that Sam wasn't the right man for the job for some time. So they must have held these beliefs before they bought the club, so they have already lied to us.

- Before the Bolton game, we were 4th in the form table and are just about to move into the Christmas period, where we have a number of favourable games, starting with West Ham on Saturday giving us the chance to move further up the table. This is possibly the worst timing for sacking the manager and again highlights these peoples total lack of understanding of football.

- They don't have a replacement lined up and say that it could take a couple of months to find the right person! Well in a couple of months we could be in the relegation zone, fighting for survival.

- They say that they want to finish fourth or fifth! Well don't we all! But back in the real world, this isn't going to happen with the players we have, the lack of money that Sam has had to spend on players and it certainly won't be happening now we have no manager. Are these people on drugs? Do they really think that we are going to finish 4th or 5th this season? This again points to the total lack of football knowledge that they have. You don't just change a team over night. It takes years of continual growth through transfers, player development, team gelling, increased crowds and more global awareness of the team. This isn't Championship Manager, it doesn't work like that.

- This idea of instant success is something that rests very uneasily with most right minded supporters. Why, after years of punching above or weight and performing miracles to finish in the positions we have, do we have to finish 4th or 5th? Yes in the long run that would be nice. But why do they see that as being an instant priority? We should be looking to survive first and finish in the top 10 like last season. If the owners felt that Sam had taken us far enough, then looking elsewhere in the summer would have been the time to do it. Again this idea that we need to be playing open attractive football and finish in the top five is Championship Manager stuff and again highlights the owners lack of football logic.

- The owners say that they have the best interests of the club at heart. They've only been here 20 odd days and in less than 24 hours, they have managed to rip apart one of the best run clubs in the league, which has been a model for consistency, stability and how to survive on a shoe string budget. This isn't having the clubs best interests at heart.

- The whole business with Kentaro was always going to lead to problems. Kentaro are only interested in having their players bought and sold to make money from it. This is an automatic conflict of interest no matter who is the manager. And if they see the likes of Geovanni and Kris Boyd being the answer to getting us into the top four, then they are bigger mugs than I thought.

- What future manager is going to want to be dictated to about transfers by the owners, on advise given by a company that is only looking after it's own interests? You can imagine John Williams pleading with them do things a certain way in terms of transfers and them not taking a blind bit of notice, because they are the owners, they do what they want and this is how things are now.

- When you are new owners with a total lack of football understanding, you should be taking the advise of the people from within the club on how things should be done. You should be humble, patient and smart enough to know that it will take some time to turn a club like Blackburn Rovers around. People like John Williams have the clubs best interests at heart and would know that to progress, it's best to do it slowly and systematically.

I was all for Blackburn getting taken over, but was always concerned that any new owner would start rocking the boat and have unrealistic expectations for a club of our size. Whenever Venky's bought us and released their statement with their vision for the future of the club, then I felt reassured that things would carry on as normal and that we were in safe hands. However it seems like the wool has been pulled over our eyes. They've taken a very risk and one that could have catastrophic effects if it doesn't work out. The only acceptable outcome from this is if we have a top class manager like Martin O'Neill and finish in the top half of the table. Otherwise all of this will have been for nothing.

[Hughesy]

can we change the title of this thread to refelct reality

No - games off!!

Just imagine the stick id have got i started this topic!!

[den]

Also if the rumours are to be believed the Trustees sacked Ince whilst JW was prepared to give him more time.

You just told me not to believe the SSN rumours.

Well I'll have to agree to disagree on that one. If Sam said he wanted to bring in Peter Crouch JW might well have been in agreement but would have had absolutely no say in the matter.

My understanding was that the trustees decided on the available [or otherwise] budget. The manager and JW would then get down to drawing up a list of targets and JW would pursue and negotiate those deals.

[John]

This is turning into a complete nightmare. Two days ago we were looking at going to Bolton and getting a good result, which could have taken us to 7th in the league. Now we have no manager, no one lined up and our chairman looks set to quit and we are fearing for the future of the club. These people have just reinforced their own opinion that they know nothing about football. People like John Williams must be banging their heads against a wall with these people because they have no clue what they are doing.

- When they took over they made a statement outlining their promises for the club and one of these was the ongoing support of the current management team. Well they have broken that promise already. They've said that they've been thinking that Sam wasn't the right man for the job for some time. So they must have held these beliefs before they bought the club, so they have already lied to us.

- Before the Bolton game, we were 4th in the form table and are just about to move into the Christmas period, where we have a number of favourable games, starting with West Ham on Saturday giving us the chance to move further up the table. This is possibly the worst timing for sacking the manager and again highlights these peoples total lack of understanding of football.

- They don't have a replacement lined up and say that it could take a couple of months to find the right person! Well in a couple of months we could be in the relegation zone, fighting for survival.

- They say that they want to finish fourth or fifth! Well don't we all! But back in the real world, this isn't going to happen with the players we have, the lack of money that Sam has had to spend on players and it certainly won't be happening now we have no manager. Are these people on drugs? Do they really think that we are going to finish 4th or 5th this season? This again points to the total lack of football knowledge that they have. You don't just change a team over night. It takes years of continual growth through transfers, player development, team gelling, increased crowds and more global awareness of the team. This isn't Championship Manager, it doesn't work like that.

- This idea of instant success is something that rests very uneasily with most right minded supporters. Why, after years of punching above or weight and performing miracles to finish in the positions we have, do we have to finish 4th or 5th? Yes in the long run that would be nice. But why do they see that as being an instant priority? We should be looking to survive first and finish in the top 10 like last season. If the owners felt that Sam had taken us far enough, then looking elsewhere in the summer would have been the time to do it. Again this idea that we need to be playing open attractive football and finish in the top five is Championship Manager stuff and again highlights the owners lack of football logic.

- The owners say that they have the best interests of the club at heart. They've only been here 20 odd days and in less than 24 hours, they have managed to rip apart one of the best run clubs in the league, which has been a model for consistency, stability and how to survive on a shoe string budget. This isn't having the clubs best interests at heart.

- The whole business with Kentaro was always going to lead to problems. Kentaro are only interested in having their players bought and sold to make money from it. This is an automatic conflict of interest no matter who is the manager. And if they see the likes of Geovanni and Kris Boyd being the answer to getting us into the top four, then they are bigger mugs than I thought.

- What future manager is going to want to be dictated to about transfers by the owners, on advise given by a company that is only looking after it's own interests? You can imagine John Williams pleading with them do things a certain way in terms of transfers and them not taking a blind bit of notice, because they are the owners, they do what they want and this is how things are now.

- When you are new owners with a total lack of football understanding, you should be taking the advise of the people from within the club on how things should be done. You should be humble, patient and smart enough to know that it will take some time to turn a club like Blackburn Rovers around. People like John Williams have the clubs best interests at heart and would know that to progress, it's best to do it slowly and systematically.

I was all for Blackburn getting taken over, but was always concerned that any new owner would start rocking the boat and have unrealistic expectations for a club of our size. Whenever Venky's bought us and released their statement with their vision for the future of the club, then I felt reassured that things would carry on as normal and that we were in safe hands. However it seems like the wool has been pulled over our eyes. They've taken a very risk and one that could have catastrophic effects if it doesn't work out. The only acceptable outcome from this is if we have a top class manager like Martin O'Neill and finish in the top half of the table. Otherwise all of this will have been for nothing.

Cracking post, completely agree (even though not sure on the MON line).

[True Blue & White]

Well I'll have to agree to disagree on that one. If Sam said he wanted to bring in Peter Crouch JW might well have been in agreement but would have had absolutely no say in the matter.

Also if the rumours are to be believed the Trustees sacked Ince whilst JW was prepared to give him more time.

The owners hold the purse strings so of course they have the ultimate say in who we sign, replace Crouch for Messi in the above and you see what I mean. The trust would have turned down the signing in terms of the amount they'd have to release not because they didn't like Crouch the player.

Having said that, JW shouldn't be in a position to turn down a signing because of his personal opinion of the player also so when it comes to signings I agree that JW has little to do with them under any owner.

What JW will have control over though is the marketing and general running of the club. He was kinf of like the Chief Councilor of a town who gets his budget given to him each year and it's up to him to use it how he sees fit to keep the ship going. Under Venky's though he may be more like a factory supervisor where he has no real power or control of money and who's management is reduced to relaying unpopular messages from above under the illusion of being 'important'.

...apologies to any factory supervisors btw.

[JoeBlueWhite]

So go on who would you rather buy a second hand car off.... Shah? Saeed, or this bloody lot? Doubts and question marks over the lot of them imo. I don't think there is one fit to mend another.

Are you saying that Indians are untrustworthy in business ?

I am speechless if you are.

[roversnick]

Cracking post, completely agree (even though not sure on the MON line).

ha you edited that just as i was about to question agreeing with the MON bit

[RevidgeBlue]

My understanding was that the trustees decided on the available [or otherwise] budget.

Exactly right.

Nothing at all to do with JW or TF. So to say they were in charge of the football side of things is totally incorrect.

[Muddboy]

This is turning into a complete nightmare. Two days ago we were looking at going to Bolton and getting a good result, which could have taken us to 7th in the league. Now we have no manager, no one lined up and our chairman looks set to quit and we are fearing for the future of the club. These people have just reinforced their own opinion that they know nothing about football. People like John Williams must be banging their heads against a wall with these people because they have no clue what they are doing.

- When they took over they made a statement outlining their promises for the club and one of these was the ongoing support of the current management team. Well they have broken that promise already. They've said that they've been thinking that Sam wasn't the right man for the job for some time. So they must have held these beliefs before they bought the club, so they have already lied to us.

- Before the Bolton game, we were 4th in the form table and are just about to move into the Christmas period, where we have a number of favourable games, starting with West Ham on Saturday giving us the chance to move further up the table. This is possibly the worst timing for sacking the manager and again highlights these peoples total lack of understanding of football.

- They don't have a replacement lined up and say that it could take a couple of months to find the right person! Well in a couple of months we could be in the relegation zone, fighting for survival.

- They say that they want to finish fourth or fifth! Well don't we all! But back in the real world, this isn't going to happen with the players we have, the lack of money that Sam has had to spend on players and it certainly won't be happening now we have no manager. Are these people on drugs? Do they really think that we are going to finish 4th or 5th this season? This again points to the total lack of football knowledge that they have. You don't just change a team over night. It takes years of continual growth through transfers, player development, team gelling, increased crowds and more global awareness of the team. This isn't Championship Manager, it doesn't work like that.

- This idea of instant success is something that rests very uneasily with most right minded supporters. Why, after years of punching above or weight and performing miracles to finish in the positions we have, do we have to finish 4th or 5th? Yes in the long run that would be nice. But why do they see that as being an instant priority? We should be looking to survive first and finish in the top 10 like last season. If the owners felt that Sam had taken us far enough, then looking elsewhere in the summer would have been the time to do it. Again this idea that we need to be playing open attractive football and finish in the top five is Championship Manager stuff and again highlights the owners lack of football logic.

- The owners say that they have the best interests of the club at heart. They've only been here 20 odd days and in less than 24 hours, they have managed to rip apart one of the best run clubs in the league, which has been a model for consistency, stability and how to survive on a shoe string budget. This isn't having the clubs best interests at heart.

- The whole business with Kentaro was always going to lead to problems. Kentaro are only interested in having their players bought and sold to make money from it. This is an automatic conflict of interest no matter who is the manager. And if they see the likes of Geovanni and Kris Boyd being the answer to getting us into the top four, then they are bigger mugs than I thought.

- What future manager is going to want to be dictated to about transfers by the owners, on advise given by a company that is only looking after it's own interests? You can imagine John Williams pleading with them do things a certain way in terms of transfers and them not taking a blind bit of notice, because they are the owners, they do what they want and this is how things are now.

- When you are new owners with a total lack of football understanding, you should be taking the advise of the people from within the club on how things should be done. You should be humble, patient and smart enough to know that it will take some time to turn a club like Blackburn Rovers around. People like John Williams have the clubs best interests at heart and would know that to progress, it's best to do it slowly and systematically.

I was all for Blackburn getting taken over, but was always concerned that any new owner would start rocking the boat and have unrealistic expectations for a club of our size. Whenever Venky's bought us and released their statement with their vision for the future of the club, then I felt reassured that things would carry on as normal and that we were in safe hands. However it seems like the wool has been pulled over our eyes. They've taken a very risk and one that could have catastrophic effects if it doesn't work out. The only acceptable outcome from this is if we have a top class manager like Martin O'Neill and finish in the top half of the table. Otherwise all of this will have been for nothing.

I couldn't agree more, RoyRover. You've summed the whole situation up perfectly.

[yoda]

Are you saying that Indians are untrustworthy in business ?

I am speechless if you are.

It all depends how wobbly the head is when they talk to you

[Majiball]

You just told me not to believe the SSN rumours.

My understanding was that the trustees decided on the available [or otherwise] budget. The manager and JW would then get down to drawing up a list of targets and JW would pursue and negotiate those deals.

Den's right the trust were not hands on. JW was responsible for all first team affairs, managers etc.