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[Archived] The Dawn Of A New Era


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I would love to know on just what you base your faith imy?

1. Hoilett and Olsson have emerged as two exciting wingers, I am looking forward to seeing more for the rest of the season.

2. We have signed a top class centre forward in RSC, once match fit he will score goals for us.

3. The other three players are ones I am excited about, they should also support the way Kean wants to play.

The beauty of football is the fact that it is so unpredictable, Wolves beating Chelsea and Man Utd, Blackburn beating Liverpool, if the results were set before a ball was kicked, who would bother watching.

If Kean is fired tomorrow, I will support the next manager until he loses my trust- that has not happened yet, the manager succeeding and Blackburn succeeding are intertwined, so its a no brainer for me.

JIM- like for like how many more points were earned with the games we played last year?

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JIM- like for like how many more points were earned with the games we played last year?

Sam earned an average of 1.32 points per match last year.

At the time Sam was sacked, he was earning an average of 1.24 points per match (by memory 21 points in 17 matches).

Kean is currently earning an average of 1.1 points per match (11 points in 10).

In my opinion, Kean's easiest period is behind him. He has 11 PL matches to go until the end of the season. Popular opinion is that it takes 40 points to be safe, so with 32 points he needs 8 points in the next 11 games. In my opinion, he'll probably make it, but we'll be limping across the finish line having thrown away any reasonable chance of breaking into the top 10.

If I'm right, we'll barely survive because of the buffer Sam was in process of building, not because of Kean's 'positive' thinking or man management. What is damning, in my opinion, is that Kean was able to build on Sam's team and has still come up short. I strongly suspect that if Sam had been given access to 5 million, he would be exceeding last year's point tally.

And despite my pessimistic opinion, I sincerely hope that my doom and gloom interpretation of what is happening is wildly misplaced, that Kean is proven a brilliant manager, that this has all just been teething pains, and that we smash our way into the top 10 and challenge for Europe.

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Sam earned an average of 1.32 points per match last year.

At the time Sam was sacked, he was earning an average of 1.24 points per match (by memory 21 points in 17 matches).

Kean is currently earning an average of 1.1 points per match (11 points in 10).

In my opinion, Kean's easiest period is behind him. He has 11 PL matches to go until the end of the season. Popular opinion is that it takes 40 points to be safe, so with 32 points he needs 8 points in the next 11 games. In my opinion, he'll probably make it, but we'll be limping across the finish line having thrown away any reasonable chance of breaking into the top 10.

If I'm right, we'll barely survive because of the buffer Sam was in process of building, not because of Kean's 'positive' thinking or man management.

I agree with that. By this time of year, goal difference is always a good indicator of where teams will end up and ours is a lot lower than the teams immediately around us. Yes, it was skewed by the Man Yoo fiasco but we were, and are, crap enough to have let them in.

As a bit of a left-field aside, I have been struggling to argue myself out of the notion that it was actually better to change manager mid-season when we had a 5 point cushion and 17 fewer games in which to lose it. Isn't that a better insurance than changing in summer when we have no points advantage over anyone and a whole season in which to cock it up?

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As a bit of a left-field aside, I have been struggling to argue myself out of the notion that it was actually better to change manager mid-season when we had a 5 point cushion and 17 fewer games in which to lose it. Isn't that a better insurance than changing in summer when we have no points advantage over anyone and a whole season in which to cock it up?

That makes no sense. You should only change your manager if you think it will improve things. When you change a manager you shouldn't be thinking about "cocking it up". Things should be sufficiently "cocked up" already that you have no option.

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That makes no sense. You should only change your manager if you think it will improve things. When you change a manager you shouldn't be thinking about "cocking it up". Things should be sufficiently "cocked up" already that you have no option.

Despite the odd spat with you on here, you do seem to be posting some sensible arguments, at the time, there was really no need to change manager, pre season was the time if any and even then a proven manager put in place.

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Sam earned an average of 1.32 points per match last year.

At the time Sam was sacked, he was earning an average of 1.24 points per match (by memory 21 points in 17 matches).

Kean is currently earning an average of 1.1 points per match (11 points in 10).

In my opinion, Kean's easiest period is behind him. He has 11 PL matches to go until the end of the season. Popular opinion is that it takes 40 points to be safe, so with 32 points he needs 8 points in the next 11 games. In my opinion, he'll probably make it, but we'll be limping across the finish line having thrown away any reasonable chance of breaking into the top 10.

If I'm right, we'll barely survive because of the buffer Sam was in process of building, not because of Kean's 'positive' thinking or man management. What is damning, in my opinion, is that Kean was able to build on Sam's team and has still come up short. I strongly suspect that if Sam had been given access to 5 million, he would be exceeding last year's point tally.

And despite my pessimistic opinion, I sincerely hope that my doom and gloom interpretation of what is happening is wildly misplaced, that Kean is proven a brilliant manager, that this has all just been teething pains, and that we smash our way into the top 10 and challenge for Europe.

That is very sensible.

Unfortunately the new owners have talked about top half finishes as something miraculous which they will achieve. They don't seem to have looked at the last five league tables and seen that top half is par for the course for the Rovers.

In fact Rovers, Spurs, Everton, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U have finished in the top half in all except one of the last five seasons.

Sam finished tenth last time out and most certainly would have improved on that this season had he been given the £6m in January.

Anything less than doing better than Sam would have done will be a failure by Steve Kean even though still being in the Premier League at the end of May could well feel like an enormous achievement based on the results and football played thus far- we have had five poor performance against West Ham, Stoke, Sunderland, Villa and Newcastle thus far.

Sorry to be boring but Steve Kean now has six weeks and only three games so it is a fantastic opportunity to get the team performing to his plan and pushing back up the table.

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12 games having taken over mid season is no time to judge. Do you agree?

Quite a few managers haven't survived as much as 12 games not that I support such a trigger happy approach.

I'd say it looks worrying at present but let him get everything tickety boo in this six week semi-break.

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Except that under the Trust we at least had a manager and a chairman.

Your hypocrisy is breathtaking.

For the last two years you were the main cheerleader on this MB for kicking out the Trust.

You shouted down anyone who dared to air concerns about prospective buyers.

You ridiculed those who pointed out that the Trust meant long term stability with proper football people running the football club.

Read back over your own posts. You bear some moral responsibility for the mess that has transpired under this new ownership. In your own immortal, hypocritical words

You got what you always wanted and look what's happening.

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12 games having taken over mid season is no time to judge. Do you agree?

The longer the owners hold off judging, the harder it will be for whomever replaces Kean to pull us out of the downward spiral.

So it really comes down to whom bears the risk, the club or Kean. I know which way I'd vote.

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Whenever I've seen him in the dugout I've always thought he was stood there thinking and thinking is a good thing. He's obviously a thinker, he's thinking about what's going on on the pitch and other matters that require thinking. I'm sure I read somewhere that he's a strong thinker as well, so lets give him the benefit of doubt and assume he's using his strengths and is thinking, not crapping his pants over whether to stay in the middle of the headlights or jump to one of the sides.

Thinker? On yesterdays performance he is no thinker. A proper thinker would not have left the entire right wing devoid of any figure in blue and white halves. A proper thinker would not have bent over to a second div manager and exiled El Hadj Diouff to Glasgow but would have had him here and playing in front of Salgado so that crosses could be fired in toward our two strikers from both wings. If thats the total sum of a thinker then I'm happy to be thick!

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Despite the odd spat with you on here, you do seem to be posting some sensible arguments, at the time, there was really no need to change manager, pre season was the time if any and even then a proven manager put in place.

You make it sound like Allardyce leaving was an inevitability. If he had continued in the same vein and been given RSC and a couple of midfield signings he'd have surely taken us to a top half finish and a probable improvement on last years excellent finishing spot. Why on earth would we have wanted to move him out?

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Your hypocrisy is breathtaking.

For the last two years you were the main cheerleader on this MB for kicking out the Trust.

You shouted down anyone who dared to air concerns about prospective buyers.

You ridiculed those who pointed out that the Trust meant long term stability with proper football people running the football club.

Read back over your own posts. You bear some moral responsibility for the mess that has transpired under this new ownership. In your own immortal, hypocritical words

Tris you have a very good memory without a doubt to rem 47er's previous stance. But mine isn't so bad either. I don't want to fall back on recriminations and counter recriminations but you hated Allardyce. You were the one to use the term 'big fat slug' toward him. You desperately wanted him out too, in fact you would easily be in the top 5 Allardyce detractors on here. Well this current scenario is definitely a case of 'be careful what you wish for'. In fact as you advise 47er "You got what you always wanted and look what's happening."

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You make it sound like Allardyce leaving was an inevitability. If he had continued in the same vein and been given RSC and a couple of midfield signings he'd have surely taken us to a top half finish and a probable improvement on last years excellent finishing spot. Why on earth would we have wanted to move him out?

Don't you think is was almost inevitable once the club had been sold? Rovers have never really improved have they DROG, since 2001/02 - 10, 6, 15, 15, 6, 10, 7, 15, 10.... a bit yo yo IMO, if you were a numbers man statiscally we should be looking at a relegation battle under Souness, Hughes, Allardyce or Kean.

Next year I would have my money on a decent league position under the "new management"

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Your hypocrisy is breathtaking.

For the last two years you were the main cheerleader on this MB for kicking out the Trust.

You shouted down anyone who dared to air concerns about prospective buyers.

You ridiculed those who pointed out that the Trust meant long term stability with proper football people running the football club.

Read back over your own posts. You bear some moral responsibility for the mess that has transpired under this new ownership. In your own immortal, hypocritical words

Patronising tone/check-----------selective quoting out of context/check-----------moral high ground/check and clincher-------------Tris is back!

Point by point------how is it possible to be trying to "kick out " the Trust for 2 years when they had the club on the market for nearly 3? I wanted a takeover to go through because they were no longer funding us.

How was continued Trust ownership possible in these circumstances? Your argument is ludicrous.They left us and a takeover was the only solution. You still seem to believe continued ownership by the Trust was feasible and desirable---are you frozen in time?

"shout down" and "ridicule" these are emotive terms that suit your prejudices but in fact are a fundamental part of your style. In that regard I'm grateful to Theno for reminding me of your "fat slug" references to the previous manager. You are a walking antidote to those who fondly remember how the Board used to be a kinder place.

Finally, the last quote you make about Allardyce was specific to those who wanted him out before he came. People like you in fact. It had no wider application, at least from me.

If the new owners make mistakes, that doesn't preclude me from saying so but I would not want to go back to how things were under the Trust.

However,Venkys have put a lot of money in and seem to be committed for the long-term so I have high hopes that eventually they will get it right. That imo means getting rid of Kean, possibly in summer assuming we survive ,which i think we will--just. But I suppose he may surprise me yet.

Finally I'm flattered that you feel my posts have had any bearing on any actual events. However,I think I'm like most on here, a poster who airs his opinions without changing anyone else's views.

Tris you have a very good memory without a doubt to rem 47er's previous stance. But mine isn't so bad either. I don't want to fall back on recriminations and counter recriminations but you hated Allardyce. You were the one to use the term 'big fat slug' toward him. You desperately wanted him out too, in fact you would easily be in the top 5 Allardyce detractors on here. Well this current scenario is definitely a case of 'be careful what you wish for'. In fact as you advise 47er "You got what you always wanted and look what's happening."

No, he hasn't a very good memory Theno, but he has a very selective one. Definately 1 of the top five detractors as you say.

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We are FIVE points off 7th ...

imy9, this I think underlines a misunderstanding you share with Venkys about football. The misunderstanding is that results are more often than not about the second differential - there's no point in observing the performance of a car on a track and saying it's doing great, it's going 100mph, when moments before it was doing 200 mph. Saying we are 5 points off 7th is an 'observation' but it doesn't communicate the 'truth' about the real situation, we are decellerating alarmingly. I'm tempted to say that the wheels have come off but that renders a serious point into one of levity.

Like you I hope and pray that we survive this year but my opinion is that even if we do then it will have been by good fortune and not good management.

I wouldn't have chosen to start from here yet this is where we are so I'm backing Kean to the hilt to get us out of this, actually this is absolutely no alternative as replacing him is completely ruled out by the owners.

We all make mistakes about football especially me but I think it's time you stopped the blind optimism and at least come out of denial mode and accept that we are in a very difficult situation. One of my many mistakes was in backing Ince to continue and be given a chance. I was persuaded by the endorsement he got from Ferguson and Dalglish amongst others plus his track record in lower divisions plus his standing as a player. Yet I was wrong. You may be drifting into the same swamp by putting your fingers in your ears anytime criticism of Kean or Venkys gets posted on here, you may be wrong.

A good friend of mine observed over the weekend that he felt that Rovers were again at a 1960 tipping point by which he meant that many staunch supporters never came back to the club after the debacle that was the 1960 FA cup final. He remembers it well. Unless something gets fixed very quickly I think many fans will just walk away and never come back. It's difficult to walk away from your club but not difficult to walk away from somebody else’s and as you keep pointing out this is Venky's club after all.

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You've hit the nail on the coffin, excuse the pun. I was just telling someone the other day that its starting to feel like this is NOT my club and its someone elses, and that the someone else wouldnt really care if I stayed or left. I guess I am not the only one.

Very typical of 3rd world countries and institutions. I can speak from experience having lived in the Middle East for the best part of 25 years.

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You've hit the nail on the coffin, excuse the pun. I was just telling someone the other day that its starting to feel like this is NOT my club and its someone elses, and that the someone else wouldnt really care if I stayed or left. I guess I am not the only one.

Very typical of 3rd world countries and institutions. I can speak from experience having lived in the Middle East for the best part of 25 years.

What's worrying is that many supporters are beginning to feel like this. 2011/12 Season ticket sales will prove a good measure. As things stand at the moment, I wont be renewing mine and neither will others I know.

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Tris you have a very good memory without a doubt to rem 47er's previous stance. But mine isn't so bad either. I don't want to fall back on recriminations and counter recriminations but you hated Allardyce. You were the one to use the term 'big fat slug' toward him. You desperately wanted him out too, in fact you would easily be in the top 5 Allardyce detractors on here. Well this current scenario is definitely a case of 'be careful what you wish for'. In fact as you advise 47er "You got what you always wanted and look what's happening."

Your memory isn't that good I'm afraid, because you've misquoted me for a second time having already been corrected once -- I'm not rude enough to use the word fat to describe anyone ... (except possibly Jeff Winter in his prime) ...

Misquoting does you a disservice. "Prehistoric gum-chewing" {slug} were the words I used - fat never came into it.

This particular thread is about the new owners - there are several others discussing the merits of the current and previous manager. Quite how you or anyone else can judge my view on either is beyond me, given that before last night I haven't posted on the subject in over 8 months.

So it might surprise you to learn that I think the timing of Allardyce's sacking was stupid, although I didn't exactly mourn his exit.

What happened (and happens) next is more important, and if this isn't the thread to discuss that then I've become even more disconnected from the MB than I thought.

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imy9, this I think underlines a misunderstanding you share with Venkys about football. The misunderstanding is that results are more often than not about the second differential - there's no point in observing the performance of a car on a track and saying it's doing great, it's going 100mph, when moments before it was doing 200 mph. Saying we are 5 points off 7th is an 'observation' but it doesn't communicate the 'truth' about the real situation, we are decellerating alarmingly. I'm tempted to say that the wheels have come off but that renders a serious point into one of levity.

Like you I hope and pray that we survive this year but my opinion is that even if we do then it will have been by good fortune and not good management.

I wouldn't have chosen to start from here yet this is where we are so I'm backing Kean to the hilt to get us out of this, actually this is absolutely no alternative as replacing him is completely ruled out by the owners.

We all make mistakes about football especially me but I think it's time you stopped the blind optimism and at least come out of denial mode and accept that we are in a very difficult situation. One of my many mistakes was in backing Ince to continue and be given a chance. I was persuaded by the endorsement he got from Ferguson and Dalglish amongst others plus his track record in lower divisions plus his standing as a player. Yet I was wrong. You may be drifting into the same swamp by putting your fingers in your ears anytime criticism of Kean or Venkys gets posted on here, you may be wrong.

A good friend of mine observed over the weekend that he felt that Rovers were again at a 1960 tipping point by which he meant that many staunch supporters never came back to the club after the debacle that was the 1960 FA cup final. He remembers it well. Unless something gets fixed very quickly I think many fans will just walk away and never come back. It's difficult to walk away from your club but not difficult to walk away from somebody else’s and as you keep pointing out this is Venky's club after all.

In any season you will go through a bad patch, as well as a good one, we were 7th at our highest point- I was not saying we were pushing for 7th then and now in the position we are in I am still not saying that now. I was responding to someone saying that it was a fact that we were closer to bottom 3 than top 7, I was commenting on that.

I have not got blind optimism but am optomistic about the short to medium term future, I have said a few times I am giving Kean 6 weeks to improve performances and points, that in my mind gives him ample time to put theory into practice, there will be no excuses after that- I think I'm pretty clear on my viewpoint!

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So in summary....

Trust Out and someone LIKE the Trust In, but with money that we can easily track and a rock solid promise of a major rebuild without changing anything

An Owner who will keep the supporters informed but also they cannot talk in public in case of faux pas

Sam sacked for crap football on the pitch but not until the end of year

Sam given 5 million pounds to purchase players who play the crap football but better

Clean house of wage drains whilst heavily spending to improve the squad

Heavy investment in youth but also looking to spend on players who can ensure a top 10 finish but making sure that their

contracts expire when the youth are ready to step up and don't become wage drains

Sounds like realistic expectations.

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