[Archived] The Dawn Of A New Era

[Bobby G]

Its time for a fresh start at least on the pitch. We shouldve brought in a proper manager from outside the system so to speak to quell the ill feelings, and more importantly to manage instead of standing like a rabbit at the touchline looking clueless.

[Paul]

Also posted on the Keith Andrews thread as relevant to both:

The guy pulls on a blue and white shirt and get condemns - why the hell should he give a frig about the people who are watching (and I mean watching as there seems to be a lot less supporting going on!) when he is not the root fault?

He might not be the best and may not be good enough for this league but he is not the reason for the defeat or any other for that matter and its not his fault he is selected.

CAPT I hope you won't mind me pulling this out of the Villa match thread. My main point will be below but I wanted to mention Andrews. As soon as the penalty was given my thought was "why did it have to be him?" The reaction on here was utterly predictable. The reality is Keith Andrews does his best, if he's not good enough this is not his fault, I don't notice many slating MGP for the pass that put Andrews in the position he was. I'm not sure how I'd react to supporters who hand out the appalling treatment Keith receives but it might be F*&^ You. The treatment KA receives is disgraceful.

Its beyond bizarre that there are posters on here who have posted their concerns either with genuine informartion or with just visable genuine concern that have been slated, yet its quite obvious and factual there has been a major faux (spelt differently in my language) within the underbelly of the club.

I am trying to be very careful with my words in this next bit...................

Long before Venky's purchased Rovers a number of people warned in multiple posts of the potential dangers involved, not necessarily in relation to Veny's specifically, of a takeover. Many of those posters are good, thoughtful MBers producing quality material who were rounded on by others because their views did not fit the blue-tinted mainstream. Interestingly posters who were amongst the most critical of those who suggested change may not be for the good are amongst the most vocal calling for Kean out, Venky's out etc.etc. Most of those who urged caution in what we wished for have stopped posting on here though I know they are still at Ewood every week and those I've spoken to are deeply unhappy at the place we find ourselves.

On many, many occassions I have commented on my dislike of money in football sometimes questioning why so many people believe £££££ win games. It's only a few weeks since we had this board in raptures at "a great transfer window," the local cheer leader telling us what a "good presser" the manager gives and to "enjoy it while you can" (at least that was accurate), about three weeks by my reckoning, hundreds jamming the MB to taste the crumbs falling from the tabloid table. People believing the owners have resources to support and grow a PL club when it was as plain as the nose on your face (or at least the published accounts) the opposite was true. This is what the game has become, this is what some have warned against for years and there are plenty of other examples of clubs destroyed in a similar manner. Irresponsible owners surrounded by those cheering the promise of debt, sorry £££££.

We need to stop believing what we want to happen is true and look at reality. By the time it becomes real it's often too late.

Of those questioning a takeover the question was often this "What would you do?" Today, here and now, if I was in Venkys shoes. I'd be on a plane and sit down with Tom Finn. I'd ask Tom if there was the slightest chance Williams and Allardyce could be persuaded to return to the club for a period. If Tom answered positively my next call would be a personal apology to both men. The Raos had no issue with humiliating them while at the club, if the Raos have to eat humble pie now so be it. I would offer them, JW and BFS, the authority till the end of season to do as they believe necessary to stave off relegation.

I don't believe the club will be relegated, I think we can scrape out of it. I know what it has looked like since the West Ham game when we saw the first signs of relegation form. I know it has got worse and worse, though along with many I really enjoyed the shining light of the WBA and Liverpool games, and it's hard to decide which was worse Newcastle or Villa. Newcastle I expected to win, Villa I expected to lose.

Watching Kean at Villa Park yesterday it is clear he is like a lost child. He doesn't know where to turn, his body language said it all. He's the same as Keith Andrews and it isn't really his fault. He was never good enough and far from being "well respected in the game" which is what we have been told, I hear there are many who dislike him intensly. I can't prove it, it's just an alternative view I have heard. Sorry we're not allowed to be negative. He's a great guy, well respected throughout the game or at least the tabloid press. Which after all is the game these days.

We are in a very bad place. I still believe it can be rescued but time is very short. Mrs Desai should be in Blackburn now, taking firm action after listening to the wisdom of the management still at the club. If there is no action and we are relegated this club may not rise again. We face the possibility of relegation with the following consequences:

• a squad probably not good enough to win promotion
• an unsustainable wage bill which would need cutting and further deplete the squad
• owners with insufficient funds to to support the club (it cost the trust £30m last time)
• Venky's "advertising" plans in ruins and presumably a loss of interest
• reduced TV income
• I believe a significant amount of debt incurred in the last three months
• gates down by perhaps 10,000

Depending on where you take your figures from Raos spent £53m purchasing the club. Relegation will cost at least £30m, probably more like £50m these days, meaning in six months of owning Rovers they will have spent in the region of at least £80m+. It doesn't add up. Relegation is not acceptable, we are unlikley to survive it in the long term. So get on the frigging phone and persuade Williams and Allardyce to return - it's your only short-term choice and it is your responsibility to take firm and decisive action. NOW.

Before the dawn comes the darkest hour. I hope this is where we are. I'll buy a ticket for Wolves hoping I won't need to use it.

[Bobby G]

Excellent post Paul. Not to be knit-picking but Pedersen's pass back to Andrews was a normal pass where Andrews had to hoof it upfield as he was facing the game instead of back-heeling it to himself in the penalty area, giving the ball away then pulling the player down. I know its irrespective of your actual point. Everything else is spot-on. If we were on the Continent, Id be almost 90% sure the first man the club would turn to would be the previous manager. It happens all the time in Italy & Spain.

[Parsonblue]

An excellent post Paul which really gets to the heart of the problems we face. Sadly, while I totally agree with your short term solutions I fear that our owners in India will not be listening. At least when it went downhill under Ince, John Williams and David Brown were actually at the matches and watching it all unfold. When action needed to be taken they took it. I'm not convinced that Mrs. Desai and her brothers have their finger on the pulse of the club on a day to day basis. At the moment I have no idea who is in control of the club on a daily basis or who is reporting back to India apart from Kean. If his reports to India are anything like his appraisal of the Villa match I really do fear for our future.

[philipl]

Paul, that is an excellent post and sums up the situation very well.

After firing Sam, Mrs Desai used the words of her late father saying you should always get 8 or 9 out of 10. I wonder what score she would give her custodianship of Blackburn Rovers thus far?

Whether she was happy about her brothers going out and buying Blackburn Rovers or not (the club's annual reports make it very clear it was the brothers' doing) she and her company are now inextricably linked in the world's eyes with Blackburn Rovers. Using Google as a rough and ready measure, if you type her name into Google search, the all important first two pieces are Lancashire Telegraph articles. If you compare the number of hits for Venky's (180,000) with the number of hits for Blackburn Rovers (6.5m) it is very easy to see that a life time spent building up her late father's business counts for nothing compared with her position vis a vis Blackburn Rovers.

One of the motivations in buying Rovers was to gain a new level of name recognition- that has certainly been achieved but in so doing she has created a PR leviathan that has swallowed the chickens whole.

Now she is faced with inevitable relegation if she does not make a change in manager. There might be one or two people who would argue with the word inevitable but those of us who have lived through nice deep thinking Brian Kidd and not so nice non-thinking Paul Ince see exactly the same pattern with the hapless good talking Steve Kean. Yesterday, the gulf between the Villa and Rovers playing squads' abilities on paper was not 4-1 but the gulf between Houllier and Kean was so enormous that Kean got off lightly only losing 4-1.

Whether she likes it or not, BPF is the best connected person on this MB when it comes to Venky's so the fans, Steve Kean and the press therefore know that Steve Kean's position is in play. Apart from Jerome Anderson (who knows when to cut by the way) and nicko, Steve is friendless where it matters. There are people who admire John Williams and Sam Allardyce and do not like the way Steve arrived in the Manager's chair who are already taking no prisoners no matter how much John and Sam personally want only the best for the Rovers. That Sunday Telegraph report is a foretaste of the coming storm and potential PR disaster.

My advice to the Rao family, no matter how painful it is, would be to act decisively now and not wait until after the Fulham game. Mark Hughes is one of the smartest managers around as we know so well from his time at Ewood and he will shred whatever Kean does next week. The players might just have enough about them to grab something at Craven Cottage if the best 14 play (no guarantee judging by most Steve Kean selections) but the dug out battle is lost already.

[47er]

Paul------of course you and others warned of dangers in any takeover. We were all aware it was a new world we were entering. But I asked you then and I ask you now----what was your alternative solution? it couldn't be stick with the Trust because they were hell-bent on getting shut of us. Venkys were the only ones who wanted us and met the criteria demanded by the vendors. So here we are and that's it.

There was no choice and we were dying a death anyway. We have to hope that these early dark days will turn our way, that we somehow stay up and that the owners grow into the job. They can start by appointing a manager.

[PAFELL]

Paul, that is an excellent post and sums up the situation very well.

After firing Sam, Mrs Desai used the words of her late father saying you should always get 8 or 9 out of 10. I wonder what score she would give her custodianship of Blackburn Rovers thus far?

Whether she was happy about her brothers going out and buying Blackburn Rovers or not (the club's annual reports make it very clear it was the brothers' doing) she and her company are now inextricably linked in the world's eyes with Blackburn Rovers. Using Google as a rough and ready measure, if you type her name into Google search, the all important first two pieces are Lancashire Telegraph articles. If you compare the number of hits for Venky's (180,000) with the number of hits for Blackburn Rovers (6.5m) it is very easy to see that a life time spent building up her late father's business counts for nothing compared with her position vis a vis Blackburn Rovers.

One of the motivations in buying Rovers was to gain a new level of name recognition- that has certainly been achieved but in so doing she has created a PR leviathan that has swallowed the chickens whole.

Now she is faced with inevitable relegation if she does not make a change in manager. There might be one or two people who would argue with the word inevitable but those of us who have lived through nice deep thinking Brian Kidd and not so nice non-thinking Paul Ince see exactly the same pattern with the hapless good talking Steve Kean. Yesterday, the gulf between the Villa and Rovers playing squads' abilities on paper was not 4-1 but the gulf between Houllier and Kean was so enormous that Kean got off lightly only losing 4-1.

Whether she likes it or not, BPF is the best connected person on this MB when it comes to Venky's so the fans, Steve Kean and the press therefore know that Steve Kean's position is in play. Apart from Jerome Anderson (who knows when to cut by the way) and nicko, Steve is friendless where it matters. There are people who admire John Williams and Sam Allardyce and do not like the way Steve arrived in the Manager's chair who are already taking no prisoners no matter how much John and Sam personally want only the best for the Rovers. That Sunday Telegraph report is a foretaste of the coming storm and potential PR disaster.

My advice to the Rao family, no matter how painful it is, would be to act decisively now and not wait until after the Fulham game. Mark Hughes is one of the smartest managers around as we know so well from his time at Ewood and he will shred whatever Kean does next week. The players might just have enough about them to grab something at Craven Cottage if the best 14 play (no guarantee judging by most Steve Kean selections) but the dug out battle is lost already.

For awhile as I have often stated, I have been willing to give Venky's and Kean a chance. With regards to the latter, I wondered if people knew something about him - potential managers skills etc - that others had missed. Now I realise there is nothing that Steve Kean can do to turn this team around. He maybe a good coach, but manager he is not. But I also think things changed for the worse after the appointment of John Jensen. Because Kean was doing ok up until then. But now I believe both of them should go.

As to the owners, like it or not we are stuck with them. Unless we can get in contact with previous bidders for the club, find somebody else who would want to try to by the club from Venky's (unlikely, I know)

Therefore I suggest we are left with the only option available to us. Somehow we have to try to help the owners - maybe via this site, try to get them to listen to the supporters.

I believe you may have mentioned that you know the owners read this site - correct me if I am wrong on that. Therefore, instead of throwing insult / complaints / negative comments etc, we try to steer them / help them. Somehow we have to meet the owners half way - maybe they are stuck in what to do themselves.

There are a number of people like yourself who have expressed concern for the club for awhile. I heard your views and read other posters comments. I decided to sit on the fence for awhile. Now I know which side of the fence I am on. Venky's are the owners - nothing we can do about that - but they need help and support to make Rovers a successful club again. Rovers need a new manager NOW.

[chaddyrovers]

The owners have to realise that Kean is not up to it. He started well but we are now going back to like the reign of Ince. Kean has no plan B during the game. Can't or won't change tactics during when his plan A is not working. Just stand there on the sidelines during a game with his hands in his pockets or folded. John Jensen doesn't seen to be helping things because since He came in, we switch to a diamond midfield which he favours. And It doesn not work in the PL. Plus since he came in we have only won one game, which was again WBA at home.

The owners have to get in a experience manager asap and before the fulham or give him the Fulham game, cos we are not going to win that with Kean as maanger. Hughes is too good for Kean and Hughes backroom team are miles better than IB and JJ.

If we give the new manager about 10 days to get his ideas over and work with the squad. And give the sqaud a massive lift and inject some confidence in the playing staff.

Come on the owners get a new manager in ASAP!!!

[Mercer]

Some excellent points from Parsonblue, Paul & Philipl.

We all have our ideas, and many attract a consensus, as to how this situation might be retrieved.

However, the big obstacles are the culture and ways of working of our new owners. Huge pride is involved and I really don't know what their 'tipping point' might be. I fear that when this occurs, it might just be too late.

[chaddyrovers]

Some excellent points from Parsonblue, Paul & Philipl.

We all have our ideas, and many attract a consensus, as to how this situation might be retrieved.

However, the big obstacles are the culture and ways of working of our new owners. Huge pride is involved and I really don't know what their 'tipping point' might be. I fear that when this occurs, it might just be too late.

When we lsoe the next 2 games and we are in 15 or 16th probably about a point or 2 or 18th place facing going down!

The owners won't like that will they!!!

[Exiled in Toronto]

I can't in a million years see the owners asking Allardyce and Williams back, the loss of face to them would be unimaginable, so the only alternatives are either a Boro-Robson-Venables arrangement where wise veteran manager comes in to 'help' rookie on a temporary basis, or a straight out sacking/demotion and the recruitment of an old-timer on an end of season basis with a whopping bonus to keep us up. Step forwards Mr. Souness!

[Olveres]

Dawn of a New Era........... in the Championship. Lose against Fulham and reults go against us elsewhere Kean has to go, if it isn't too late already :-(

[67splitscreen]

I can't in a million years see the owners asking Allardyce and Williams back, the loss of face to them would be unimaginable, so the only alternatives are either a Boro-Robson-Venables arrangement where wise veteran manager comes in to 'help' rookie on a temporary basis, or a straight out sacking/demotion and the recruitment of an old-timer on an end of season basis with a whopping bonus to keep us up. Step forwards Mr. Souness!

Been out of the game to long, same scenario, MON, Jol or Ranieri.

[Kelbo]

Been out of the game to long, same scenario, MON, Jol or Ranieri.

certainly Jol or Ranieri, not sure of O'Neil!

[Hekla]

Is Laudrup SEM/Kentaro?

[Pete1981]

Dont know if anyone has seen this go to page 46

http://www.fcbusiness.co.uk/eversion/FCB51/pageflip.html

[Billy Castell]

It's all very well being ambitious etc. but things are really looking bleak. I doubt all these Indians will flock to see us when we fall off the Premier League gravy train.

[RovertheHill]

What would people think if the following (hypothetical) scenario happened?

1) Venkys admit they've made mistakes based on advice they've been given

2) they sack their current advisors

3) they sack the manager

Too little too late? Or would you cut them some slack?

[philipl]

100% cut them some slack.

In fact rally round- they are our owners and it is our club.

They have clearly achieved remarkable things outside of the fantasy world of football- we need that drive and vision which is the best of what they can give us. Instead we seem to be getting the result of advice that most people can see has other agendas affecting it.

[John]

Maradona to the rescue?

[chaddyrovers]

Shearer to the rescue??? rovers legend and would unite the fans

[Amo]

Shearer to the rescue??? rovers legend and would unite the fans

He'd also get us relegated.

[Fife Rover]

100% cut them some slack.

In fact rally round- they are our owners and it is our club.

They have clearly achieved remarkable things outside of the fantasy world of football- we need that drive and vision which is the best of what they can give us. Instead we seem to be getting the result of advice that most people can see has other agendas affecting it.

Seconded. Not holding my breath though.

[chaddyrovers]

He'd also get us relegated.

I was joking topman. either Bilic or Jol for me. but not diego. I

[Amo]

I was joking topman.

I wasn't.

If Venky's did boot Kean, I'd take Souey as interim boss for the rest of the season. Then Venky's have the off-season to evaluate where they went wrong and who they really need.

Jol, Bilic. Good names. I'd throw Klinsmann in there as well.