[Archived] The Dawn Of A New Era

[Mattyblue]

Come on Toppers, the football was not 'crap' was it? Complete myth. And even if it was, MID TABLE IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE, a glorious age just 18 months ago.

And as for O'Neill, isnt it just Allardyce football on a big budget?

[jim mk2]

lol. Who's rattled? Just fed up of Theno & Jim regurgitating the same crap over and over again. They are obviously men with very frail egos.

You brought this topic up again so you deserve all that's coming back at you.

[Amo]

Come on Toppers, the football was not 'crap' was it? Complete myth. And even if it was, MID TABLE IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE, a glorious age just 18 months ago.

Oh, it was. Even Allardyce's ardent supporters should concede that. Boring, predictable, percentage-based football. Like I said, got the job done but it was a slog to watch.

And as for O'Neill, isnt it just Allardyce football on a big budget?

O'Neill played counter-attacking football at Villa with proper wingers. With players like Hoilett & Olsson at his disposal he could have shaped us into a real force to be reckoned with. Allardyce preferred Diouf & Emerton, old, dependable wingers who could hold the ball up and draw set-pieces.

You brought this topic up again so you deserve all that's coming back at you.

I wasn't the sadsack who bumped this thread to stroke my own ego.

[Mattyblue]

In your opinion. I enjoyed it, a quality manager at the forefront of a (then) quality club.

[HemelRover]

In your opinion. I enjoyed it, a quality manager at the forefront of a (then) quality club.

You enjoyed the performances and the style of football or just the results and the standings?

[Mattyblue]

Results and standings. Not interested in the 'style' Rovers play if it is does not equate to winning matches.

Football is about winning and your club being in the best position it can.

[den]

Topman -

Some fans still think it was a good move. I guess these people would still sack a rovers manager even if we were to get top half Premier League football again. Would you?

[Andy]

Results and standings. Not interested in the 'style' Rovers play if it is does not equate to winning matches.

Football is about winning and your club being in the best position it can.

+100

[Stuart]

Results and standings. Not interested in the 'style' Rovers play if it is does not equate to winning matches.

Football is about winning and your club being in the best position it can.

Agreed. There's a reason a reason it's called Professional football.

I loved the feeling of walking up Bolton Road after another win.

There's nothing more depressing than watching your team play well and lose, especially when you are in a relegation battle desperate for points.

Oh, and Steve Kean's team hasn't played much good football anyway. Even when we won, we usually conceded at least 2 goals and didn't play particularly well. So we got the worst of both worlds. A goods manager will get the best out of what he has available. Not try to stick to a method which isn't working and simply shuffle the pack, hoping for some aces.

The Allardyce dissenters will argue someone better could have followed him instead of Kean but I'm not sure that attractive football AND points were possible - on our budget.

I put it that way because there are some people who will stick staunchly to the media-driven hoofball only matra but from what I saw we definitely mixed it up. Especially once safety was assured.

[Silencio]

Oh, it was. Even Allardyce's ardent supporters should concede that. Boring, predictable, percentage-based football. Like I said, got the job done but it was a slog to watch.

Some of it was, some of it wasn't. Same at Bolton but I seem to remember that in the last few years there he had Okocha, Campo, Diouf (when he was young), Stelios, Hierro and Anelka in the side. They were decent to watch AND good from set pieces. Pretty similar to what we were like under Hughes. Bear in mind that all those ex-Real Madrid players also loved playing for him.

O'Neill played counter-attacking football at Villa with proper wingers. With players like Hoilett & Olsson at his disposal he could have shaped us into a real force to be reckoned with. Allardyce preferred Diouf & Emerton, old, dependable wingers who could hold the ball up and draw set-pieces.

He spent an absolute fortune doing that and they always fell apart close to the end of the season. He always buys players who he's worked with and who have played in the UK and he gives them massive wages. Allardyce was bringing Hoilett and Olssen through from what I remember. I think it was Newcastle away where Hoilett ran them ragged close to the time when SA got fired.

[arbitro]

Results and standings. Not interested in the 'style' Rovers play if it is does not equate to winning matches.

Football is about winning and your club being in the best position it can.

Too right. It's been said many times about the results business but it is one of the truer sayings in the game. Under Howard Kendall we went on a record unbeaten run and most of the wins were by 1-0. I don't remember too many moaning then about the negative, bland type of football buts that what it was. There are too many 'purists' who have been indoctrinated by the media who often refer to 'Arsenal type' football. And what have they won recently compared to say Chelsea ho can mix styles when they have to.

[K-Hod]

Ah, the old Allardyce debate.

Definitely not tired of hearing of this.....

Are people's egos that massive that they still have to remind people who was right and who was wrong from 18 months ago?

[Amo]

Topman -

Some fans still think it was a good move. I guess these people would still sack a rovers manager even if we were to get top half Premier League football again. Would you?

I'm not sure anyone could argue that anything Venky's have done since they've turned up is a "good move", tbh.

[47er]

Top man, I don't want to buy into the general argument (my views onSam are well known) but I don't understand how you can say that sacking Sam was "not a huge surprise"?

It certainly was to me and, I thought, the football world in general. Certainly the astonishment at the time has been vindicated by the outcome?

[Stuart]

Ah, the old Allardyce debate.

Definitely not tired of hearing of this.....

Are people's egos that massive that they still have to remind people who was right and who was wrong from 18 months ago?

You'd have to ask whomever keeps bringing it up.

[Silencio]

I'm not sure anyone could argue that anything Venky's have done since they've turned up is a "good move", tbh.

Apart from sacking Allardyce, in your opinion...

[den]

I'm not sure anyone could argue that anything Venky's have done since they've turned up is a "good move", tbh.

You're avoiding.

Would you sack any future rovers manager, if he had got us into the top half of the PL? I know I wouldn't. I guess you wouldn't either, but that would mean you accepting that it was the wrong decision to sack Sam.

[Amo]

Top man, I don't want to buy into the general argument (my views onSam are well known) but I don't understand how you can say that sacking Sam was "not a huge surprise"?

It certainly was to me and, I thought, the football world in general. Certainly the astonishment at the time has been vindicated by the outcome?

The timing was a little surprising but overall, no. Like I said, they wouldn't be the first foreign owners to come in and pot the manager for their own guy. Unfortunately, Venky's paragon turned out to be Steve Kean.

Apart from sacking Allardyce, in your opinion...

Sacking a manager, like selling a player, is a binary one. It all depends on the follow-up decision to the first.

*IF* Sam had been replaced by someone like Martin Jol, I suspect this debate would never see the light of day. It would also suggest that Venky's did indeed have some ambition for the club.

But we know that Venky's are not naive or misguided. There are obviously darker forces at work if they not only hired Kean but continually backed him despite him losing the fans, the players, the backroom staff and the media.

Ergo, sacking Sam was NOT a good move. But then Sam was never going to figure in these plans, so it's all academic.

[Guest SuperAgentJB]

I find it hard to believe how easily people make their minds up based on media perceptions of a teams football style. Surely Blackburn fans should understand this more than the average fan due to Arsene's quotes leading to our "bully boys" tags which lasted throughout Hughes tenure.

Mourinho, Fabregas, Arsene Wenger, Rafael Bentitez all made comments about Big Sam after losing to one of his teams. Sore losers...

Football is about winning. Newspapers, Broadcasters and journalists should have heralded Bolton's results, yet instead they started a nonsense campaign which infiltrates the large amount of idiots who watch football. Years later, the guy still doesn't get enough plaudits for forging a career at the top level - regardless of if your opinion of his tactics. Martin O'Neill spent an absolute fortune using the same tactics - yet he is not thought of in the same way. I'd love to have a conversation with Steve Kean regarding the average possession stats per game in his 18 months as apposed to the previous (which he openly dismissed, making the promise of attractive, total, possession football)

My opinion purely is; the pro's of Sams tenure massively outweigh the cons. -We also watched consecutive victories over Burnley and watched them get relegated, playing every set piece short.

What everyone who supports Blackburn would give to have Big Sam back.

[M-K]

In Topman's defence, expectations were much higher then. Hughes and Souness were still fresh in the memory, and it was understandable that people were fed up with the ugly football served up by Allardyce.

Nobody realised that Allardyce was in fact our last throw of the dice in the top flight, and our natural level was with the likes of Ince and now Kean. With hindsight, sacking Allardyce was a bad move, but I suspect many of the people who wanted him out were just hoping for a return to the relative success and occasionally exciting football we'd enjoyed up until a couple of years previously.

Nobody would want to sack a Rovers manager who got us into the top 10 of the Premier League in future, but that's never likely to happen again.

[den]

In Topman's defence, expectations were much higher then. Hughes and Souness were still fresh in the memory, and it was understandable that people were fed up with the ugly football served up by Allardyce.

Some people's expectations were indeed higher M-K, but there was nothing to suggest that Allardyce could be replaced by a manager who could get that squad higher in the league. Some fans were prepared to take that gamble though.

Nobody realised that Allardyce was in fact our last throw of the dice in the top flight,

Quite a few posters at the time certainly did suggest it might take us to relegation.

Nobody would want to sack a Rovers manager who got us into the top 10 of the Premier League in future, but that's never likely to happen again.

Thanks, there's a lesson for us all there. Toppers is still fending that one away though.

[MarkBRFC71]

but I'm not sure that attractive football AND points were possible - on our budget.

Swansea?

[Silencio]

*IF* Sam had been replaced by someone like Martin Jol...

Let's assume that Jol would have been working on the same budget as SA. Do you think he would have got us into a better position than SA? I don't and I don't think he would have stuck around for very long.

The only scenario where getting rid of SA might have been a reasonable decision was if they had vast funds to put straight into the first team and if they even had a clue about football. Even then it would have been wrong to fire SA midway ion a season where we were doing fine.

The best thing Venky's could have done would have been to give SA a budget to put his back room staff up to the levels he had at Bolton and given him a slightly bigger transfer budget. We'd be doing fine now if they'd done that.

[Mattyblue]

Swansea?

They've had a good season.

However, we had a wage bill going at 90% with little to spend on transfers, therefore HAD to have a manager that could pretty much guarantee PL football.

[MarkBRFC71]

They've had a good season.

However, we had a wage bill going at 90% with little to spend on transfers, therefore HAD to have a manager that could pretty much guarantee PL football.

Swansea have spent next to nothing, and comfortably remained in the Prem playing good football with what 12 months ago was basically a Championship squad. It can EASILY be achieved if you've got a good enough, modern, forward-thinking manager with the right ethos - although despite his loyalty in disassociating himself from some of the 'better' recent vacancies I can see Rodgers being snapped up before too long.