[Archived] The Dawn Of A New Era

[Mattyblue]

So, JW should have sold off all our big earners, sacked Allardyce and tried the Swansea approach?

[den]

Swansea have spent next to nothing, and comfortably remained in the Prem playing good football with what 12 months ago was basically a Championship squad. It can EASILY be achieved if you've got a good enough, modern, forward-thinking manager with the right ethos

I remember Blackpool and Burnley being used as evidence by the Sam haters, as what can be achieved by playing attractive, free flowing football.

Easily my backside.

Seems like you would do exactly the same again Mark.

[sharpysharps]

I'm sure Swansea have spent more money in the last 12 months than Sam was able to spend in his last full season in charge at Rovers. They have also just put in a bit of just under 7 million for Sigurdsson to sign permanently for them.

Rovers literally had nothing to go on anymore back then, but the approach that was taken was functional and worked for the players at the club at that time. Had Sam been able to spend some money, i'm sure Rovers would have been knocking on the door of the top 8 in the league, possibly top 6 with some inspired signings.

Yes the football at times was awful, but it was flipping better than being in the situation we are in now.

[Majiball]

Does it really matter anymore?

Sam's sacking was not made for footballing reasons and was obviously part of the plan from day one.

[jim mk2]

Swansea and Norwich have both had good seasons but I suspect they will both struggle next time. Rodgers in particular is the flavour of the moment but he has to prove he can do it season after season like our former manager. Allardyce has proved year after year he can manage successfully a medium sized club on a small budget but I doubt Rodgers will be able to sustain it. The fact is we had a proven Premier League manager at the club but that wasn't enough for the playstation generation who thinks football is some sort of entertainment. Well, I've got news for them - football is about winning and it's about good results and if you don't get good results you get relegated.

.

[thenodrog]

But the argument against Sam wasn't just the standard of football.......like how we would go 1-0 up and try and close out the game, playing 1 up top in every game, negative away from home against basically everyone even if a game was there for the taking.

Not being disrespectful but are you old enough to have watched BRFC under Howard Kendall? 1-0's and 0-1's were the order of that promotion season. How about many away matches followed a similar pattern under Dalglish? Hughes knew the value of getting our noses in front and digging in too, to have and to hold. Chelsea's 'Special One' followed that mantra even with a squad of "galactico's". Results first, performance second. Always. To do otherwise is to neither understand the game nor respect the opposition.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

I should of been more clearer about the 1 up top......I'm only talking about games that were there for the taking against the likes of Hull, Portsmouth etc. Not so much that we started with 1 striker, just that the way the game was going it would of been much more beneficial to play with 2 strikers......in order to win the game, not just so 2 strikers could be on the field.

I wasn't just talking about my views this was what quite a few fans were saying as well. I made the point because when people talk about the negative things about Allardyce they would only talk about his tactics and the "boring football". In which I didn't have too much of a problem with as long as they continued getting results.....but there were quite a few other issues.

I fully appreciate how we were almost unbeatable at home but we surely could have gotten more away points if we had been a bit more positive in our approach, against the bottom 5 or so teams in the league. And my main issue with Allardyce was us basically rolling over against the big clubs away.....it's a football match anything can happen, look at Norwich away at the biggger clubs this year, they went for it and beat Spurs, could have beaten Arsenal, Liverpool and Man Utd.

Like I said now the decision now looks incredibly stupid, it was to sack him that time anyway, but anyone who bothered to dig up old posts to chastise those who were happy with his sacking just look sad.

[DeadlyDirk]

Seriously what are you lot talking about?

Whether Sam should have been sacked or not is not even worth talking about. He was sacked and we got Kean instead, that's all that really matters. If any of you believe that Sam was sacked due to supporter demand or results on the pitch then you are living in a fricking dream world.

If the owners listened to the supporters or cared about results on the pitch then Kean would have went a long time ago. The owners obviously have their reasons for getting rid of Sam and keeping Kean for so long but it's really time for us to stop blaming each other.

Anyone would have thought Topman sacked Sam personally.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Are you old enough to have watched BRFC under Howard Kendall? How about many away matches under Dalglish? Hughes knew the value of to have and to hold too. Chelsea's 'Special One' followed that mantra even with a squad of "galactico's". Results first, performance second. Always. To do otherwise is to neither understand the game nor respect the opposition.

Did you understand my point? I'm arguing we most likely would have got more points without these things. I've just explained the 1 up top comment. In my eyes, after going 1-0 up we would try and close out the game, Mourinho style, but we didn't have the players or right gameplan to do so. Players would be unsure what to do and some players would make attacking runs while others didn't and it would rarely work. And then often the other team would score, therefore without doing that there was a chance we could have got a 2nd goal. Going 1-0 down made us play better infact imo and I'm pretty sure only Chelsea rescued more points after going a goal behind.

As for the away games, it's not we set out that way, rather certain games were there for the taking. Against the bottom teams in the league but we didn't attack as much as we should of. None of these issues should of, in my eyes, warranted his sacking as I said later in my post "I liked him as he got results", but I was just explaining there were other issues with Allardyce that people had that rarely were mentioned.

I don't know why you figure I care more about the style of play than results. Results are all I care about, so I don't know how you got that from what I said.

[thenodrog]

lol. Who's rattled? Just fed up of Theno & Jim regurgitating the same crap over and over again. They are obviously men with very frail egos.

The argument for sacking Allardyce is a moot one. He wasn't part of Venky's/Kentaro's/Whoever owns us' grand designs. So taking cheap digs at fans for their preference over who they wanted to manage the club is puerile point-scoring. Allardyce's football was, quite frankly, garbage. It got the job done but it was crap and fans accepted it begrudgingly as a necessary evil. Venky's were supposed to represent a new beginning for the club. We would no longer need to go cap in hand to The Trust for a few coppers. Sacking him wasn't a huge surprise. Most new owners want to make an impact and get their own man in place. If Venky's had been worthy owners, they would have listened to the board and hired someone like Martin Jol or Martin O'Neil, someone who could get results without boring the tits off the fans. No one on earth envisioned that Steve Kean, a nobody from the backroom staff, would become manager and still remain so 18 months and one relegation later. To see people still lying this at the "Anti-Samites" is absolutely ridiculous. Fan opinion was never a factor in the direction of the club, that much has been made apparent.

Some was, some wasn't. Depends whether you are comparing it to the real bloody garbage since... you know Topman the losing, relegation kind of garbage that we've had for a season and a half ever since. The type of football that could easily see the end of the club. The football under Allardyce might have been overly negative but he carried out his brief from the owners and certainly exceeded his budget.

Problem with people like you is that you know you've ###### up but you have a stubborn streak about holding your hand up and admitting that you are not as clever as you think.

Posting silly little pictures to denegrate the likes of Jim, Den and I just shows you up to be a fool. No one can defend the indefensible. We were right all along, you were wrong. Accept it and stop making such a fool of youself.

[thenodrog]

O'Neill played counter-attacking football at Villa with proper wingers. With players like Hoilett & Olsson at his disposal he could have shaped us into a real force to be reckoned with.

Could have, would have, should have.

We aren't a Villa these days. Haven't been since Jack died. We are a rung or two down the pecking order on them. Even before relegation it was a struggle to attract such players and well nigh impossible keeping hold of them.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

But then O'Neill went to Sunderland so surely comparing us to them is more relevant. And it's not like the types of players Villa could have attracted were a significant cut above the ones we could. What about Benni McCarthy and Santa Cruz? Arguably exceptions but we must of been enough of an attraction. Which higher profile players have Villa signed over the last few years? N'Zogbia? Bent? Milan Baros? We are maybe a rung down on the pecking order due to stadium size and fanbase but there's hardly a significant gap.

"Could have, would have, should have" -- fair enough but he makes a valid point, O'Neill almost exclusively relied on pace on the wings through counter-attacking and that's exactly what we have with Hoilett and Olsson. All alternate scenarios but still. But like someone else said O'Neill is similar to Allardyce anyway, but so is David Moyes.

[thenodrog]

I find it hard to believe how easily people make their minds up based on media perceptions of a teams football style. Surely Blackburn fans should understand this more than the average fan due to Arsene's quotes leading to our "bully boys" tags which lasted throughout Hughes tenure.

Mourinho, Fabregas, Arsene Wenger, Rafael Bentitez all made comments about Big Sam after losing to one of his teams. Sore losers...

Football is about winning. Newspapers, Broadcasters and journalists should have heralded Bolton's results, yet instead they started a nonsense campaign which infiltrates the large amount of idiots who watch football. Years later, the guy still doesn't get enough plaudits for forging a career at the top level - regardless of if your opinion of his tactics. Martin O'Neill spent an absolute fortune using the same tactics - yet he is not thought of in the same way. I'd love to have a conversation with Steve Kean regarding the average possession stats per game in his 18 months as apposed to the previous (which he openly dismissed, making the promise of attractive, total, possession football)

My opinion purely is; the pro's of Sams tenure massively outweigh the cons. -We also watched consecutive victories over Burnley and watched them get relegated, playing every set piece short.

What everyone who supports Blackburn would give to have Big Sam back.

Indeed. People cannot see that we only managed to get a manager of Allardyce's quality cos of that irrational media image. His record taken at face value should have seen him manage much more viable Premier League outfits than ours.

[thenodrog]

In Topman's defence, expectations were much higher then. Hughes and Souness were still fresh in the memory, and it was understandable that people were fed up with the ugly football served up by Allardyce.

Nobody realised that Allardyce was in fact our last throw of the dice in the top flight, and our natural level was with the likes of Ince and now Kean. With hindsight, sacking Allardyce was a bad move, but I suspect many of the people who wanted him out were just hoping for a return to the relative success and occasionally exciting football we'd enjoyed up until a couple of years previously.

Not true. Read back and that was the opinion of many. I remember JimMk2 started the relegation thread straight away when Allardyce was potted. The unbelievable aspect was that we had all seen the writing on the wall under Paul Ince's spell in charge just a short time before. The dangers of poor management and the value of sound management should have been fresh in everybody's memories. The fact that so few retained such a valuable lesson is why they are being subjected to the derision and scorn of their fellow supporters now and likely for evermore.

Swansea?

An excellent example..... Do you think they'll manage to survive 19/20 years in the Premier League Mark?

imo Swansea although delightful to watch will prove a flash in the pan. More to the point when Rodgers moves on as he surely will who do you think will succeed him and continue his mantra?

Swansea have spent next to nothing, and comfortably remained in the Prem playing good football with what 12 months ago was basically a Championship squad. It can EASILY be achieved if you've got a good enough, modern, forward-thinking manager with the right ethos - although despite his loyalty in disassociating himself from some of the 'better' recent vacancies I can see Rodgers being snapped up before too long.

You'd better ask Rodgers how easy it is. You have just shot your own argument down in flames. When he goes then so will Swansea.

[FourLaneBlue]

Swansea?

They finished 11th. We finished 10th in Allardyce´s one full season and reached a semi-final to boot.

Teams have to play to their strengths. Swansea have players like Osman who can knock the ball about all game.

Wish we were knocking the ball back to the keeper while 3-0 up again...

[M-K]

Not true. Read back and that was the opinion of many. I remember JimMk2 started the relegation thread straight away when Allardyce was potted. The unbelievable aspect was that we had all seen the writing on the wall under Paul Ince's spell in charge just a short time before. The dangers of poor management and the value of sound management should have been fresh in everybody's memories. The fact that so few retained such a valuable lesson is why they are being subjected to the derision and scorn of their fellow supporters now and likely for evermore.

You're right, I just wish it didn't all seem so blindingly obvious now. Ince was out of his depth but I thought things would be okay because at least we had the Trust looking out for our best interests. The next manager would turn out to be as good as Hughes, he'd find another Benni / Roque / Bentley, everything would be back to normal...

As soon as Venky's pitched up and it turned out the Trust couldn't have cared less about the club, I guess that's when I knew it was all over.

[FourLaneBlue]

Swansea have spent next to nothing, and comfortably remained in the Prem playing good football with what 12 months ago was basically a Championship squad. It can EASILY be achieved if you've got a good enough, modern, forward-thinking manager with the right ethos - although despite his loyalty in disassociating himself from some of the 'better' recent vacancies I can see Rodgers being snapped up before too long.

It can easily be achieved? In that case, you will have no trouble naming other examples of it happening at clubs for more than a season or so in the Prem.

I don´t care what style of football we play as long as we win.

[Pitty]

They finished 11th. We finished 10th in Allardyce´s one full season and reached a semi-final to boot.

Teams have to play to their strengths. Swansea have players like Osman who can knock the ball about all game.

Wish we were knocking the ball back to the keeper while 3-0 up again...

Dont Osman play for Everton or do swansea have an Osman aswell?

[FourLaneBlue]

Dont Osman play for Everton or do swansea have an Osman aswell?

Whoops, brain freeze. I meant Leon Brittan. Got him mixed up with Leon Osman.

[Tom]

At the end of the day it doesn't make a jot of difference what people thought of the last manager, no matter what you say the fans didn't make that decision, someone else did. All this is now serving is stroking some egos, ironically some of those have made even worse errors of judgement but would rather ignore that. Pathetic really.

For what it's worth my view is it was 100 times better than it was under Kean but I felt my time was limited as I was bored a lot of the time but I think that was more down to the league as a whole than the man himself.

[Steve Moss]

Sacking Sam was a huge mistake.

And I dont' care about pretty football. That's just tactics. I enjoyed SA's football as it was competitive.

All that said, neither the results nor the style of football seem to motivate Venkys. Otherwise Kean would be gone. Venkys are not idiots in the larger business sense. So what matters to them in relation to the Rovers?

[Stuart]

Swansea?

Aside from all the other responses, add I'd add Ipswich as an example of first season wonders, Swansea are today said to have signed a £6.8m relative unknown player. Did we have that kind of option during Sam's tenure?

[MarkBRFC71]

At the end of the day it doesn't make a jot of difference what people thought of the last manager, no matter what you say the fans didn't make that decision, someone else did. All this is now serving is stroking some egos, ironically some of those have made even worse errors of judgement but would rather ignore that. Pathetic really.

For what it's worth my view is it was 100 times better than it was under Kean but I felt my time was limited as I was bored a lot of the time but I think that was more down to the league as a whole than the man himself.

Yep, I remember the great sages who said Hughes would never make it as a Premiership manager, that wanted John Williams out, and that said we'd be in Europe every season with a team full of Pedersens. Neither of those ego-maniacs has yet said they were wrong.

I honestly think we've had largely bugger all to write home about - for whatever reason - since Hughes left. Ince was totally inept, Sam was full of self-importance, self-promotion and agricultural tactics albeit with a modicum of success, and the less said about Kean the better. Was Sam the best manager since Hughes? Absolutely. Should we have sacked Sam? If it meant getting a better manager like Jol or O'Neill as it appeared at the time then yes. If the only option was Kean then no, it was wrong. It seems that the latter was the plan before Venky's even officially arrived so nothing anyone did or said had any effect - it was always going to happen.

I'm hoping relegation - hell, even another one or two relegations - means we can clear out all the deadwood, crooks and incompetents and start over. It says Blackburn Rovers on the stadium I pass every day, but it isn't the same club any more.

Aside from all the other responses, add I'd add Ipswich as an example of first season wonders, Swansea are today said to have signed a £6.8m relative unknown player. Did we have that kind of option during Sam's tenure?

Kalinic? And he was a roaring success.

Sigurdsson has been a great loan signing (7 goals in 18 games from midfield), so while they've paid a lot he's obviously got talent.

As for other teams, Wigan, Fulham, West Brom - all remained in the Prem without recourse to cynical football.

[Stuart]

Kalinic? And he was a roaring success.

Sigurdsson has been a great loan signing (7 goals in 18 games from midfield), so while they've paid a lot he's obviously got talent.

As for other teams, Wigan, Fulham, West Brom - all remained in the Prem without recourse to cynical football.

Fair call on Kalinic. I actually liked him but it's difficult to argue with his record. (Although it's difficult to argue with Sam's record either )

Swansea and Norwich both got 47 points, better than us (post-Sam) but still not great - it'll be interesting to see how they cope with second season syndrome.

Forgetting the fact there were 3 bloody awful teams in the Prem last season, let's have a look.

Wigan - freak results at the end of the season, should have gone down but took advantage of knowing there were some crap team like us about.

Fulham - have money, and can afford to buy decent players and afford to make mistakes.

West Brom - probably the best example of the lot but were a yo-yo club for good while and even they have more money than Sam was given. People forget just how bad our budget was. Herold Goulon FFS.

At the end of the day, we were as successful as we could be at the time, with the right man in charge. The perpetual argument is that Sam wasn't entertaining, I'd say the results were what entertained me. The goals, the clean sheets. If there had been someone better suited to Rovers, JW would have found him. He picked Sam, having mistakenly listened to the fans first time around before bringing in Ince. Enough said.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Yea I thought supporters groups or something were against Sam so we hired Ince. But they knew he would get results as he did it at Bolton so maybe a select few are hypocrites. I think particularly Swansea will struggle with 2nd season syndrome. They took longer to work out than Blackpool but teams did eventually and they lost 4 in a row by teams closing their defenders down early to prevent them building from the back. But then they played us. Saying that tho, I'm sure their manager will adapt and in Sigurdsson, Vorm, Graham, Dyer, Joe Allen and Sinclair they have some very good players.

As for Norwich, they are losing Holt and I don't think they have that much money to spend on transfers and wages but they also have a very good manager. It helped the 2 of them massively this season with the fact there was 6 other very poor teams. Villa or QPR I don't see struggling next season, so most likely along with Wigan, it depends on the strength of the teams coming up.

My housemate is a Swansea fan and I've managed to catch a few of their matches this season when he is streaming them. Sometimes they can knock it around very nicely and create chances but on the whole they don't and would of struggled this year if they weren't so good defensively. A few weeks before the end of the season, they had the joint worst record along with Bolton of failing to score in games with 14. Generally they just pass it round the back and Leon Britton puts Nzonzi to shame in only passing it backwards. Their centre back Ashley Williams has made the most passes in the league this season with their right back in 4th. It's much easier said than done to just pass your way through premier league defences without amazing players.