[Archived] The Dawn Of A New Era

[Balwer]

Very hollow reading back through this thread. Certainly don't feel vindicated.

[jim mk2]

Funny how the same buffoon who continues to think sacking Sam was a good idea also gave our former manager absolutely no chance of getting West Ham back up.

I guess some folk are just very hard of learning.

[walk down bolton road]

At the end of the day it doesn't make a jot of difference what people thought of the last manager, no matter what you say the fans didn't make that decision, someone else did. All this is now serving is stroking some egos, ironically some of those have made even worse errors of judgement but would rather ignore that. Pathetic really.

For what it's worth my view is it was 100 times better than it was under Kean but I felt my time was limited as I was bored a lot of the time but I think that was more down to the league as a whole than the man himself.

+1 A lot of truth written here.

[Majiball]

[thenodrog]

At the end of the day it doesn't make a jot of difference what people thought of the last manager, no matter what you say the fans didn't make that decision, someone else did. All this is now serving is stroking some egos, ironically some of those have made even worse errors of judgement but would rather ignore that. Pathetic really.

For what it's worth my view is it was 100 times better than it was under Kean but I felt my time was limited as I was bored a lot of the time but I think that was more down to the league as a whole than the man himself.

With all due respect Tom (and with none to Topman for his 'amusing' ageist pictures of Foggy, Compo and Clegg) you just have no idea of the sh1t that is in store for you. I don't think many under 35-40 will have any idea either. Even supposing that BRFC manage to survive the financial maelstrom which is fast approaching you and your generation simply don't know what is going to hit you. You are part of a generation spoiled by the influence of a rich man. Pontificate about enjoyment, ego's, limited time or whatever but remember our status in the Premier league was precious and rare to us old uns. The chickens have well and truly come home to roost with the departure of the Walker influence. Pinch yourselves cos true reallity is from now on in.

The plain fact is that BRFC were punching above our weight but so many had got so used to it that we thought it would be forever. In effect we are a tiny town club who are (God willing) about to find our rightful level in footballs heirarchy. Mark my words it's sh1t down the leagues. Despondancy and despair with the future situation will soon test all your loyalty. You are about to appreciate the 'boredom' you mentioned to a degree that you could never imagine.

[Mattyblue]

Well i'm not of your vintage gord and I knew full well that this club could not afford to go down. A glance at some of the sides who sat at the top table before a rapid fall tells you that.

In fact, I've come across more fans of 50+ slating Sam's football than the far more pragmatic 'young uns'.

[MarkBRFC71]

Funny how the same buffoon who continues to think sacking Sam was a good idea also gave our former manager absolutely no chance of getting West Ham back up.

I guess some folk are just very hard of learning.

2012's most predictable post from the decade's most predictable poster?

For the last time (because the whole posthumous Sam love-in is almost as interminably dull as you), at the time, with the promise of investment, the strong links to better managers like Jol and O'Neill, and with no idea who Steve Kean was, sacking Sam seemed like a positive if perhaps ill-timed move. Looking back, suspecting now that Kean being manager was likely pre-engineered, he was the only name in the frame, and having just endured 18 months of lies, deceit and ineptitude, the owners getting Venky's to sack Sam was bad move - but was always going to happen whatever the fans, press or the man himself said or did. Would I rather have Sam than Kean? Absolutely.

Now I know Sam completes your man-crush triumvirate (with MGP and Tony Blair) but at least in public can we just forget about him? We should be united in wanting Kean and Venky's out, not arguing over the sacking of an average time under and average manager. Get over it and move on.

[gumboots]

With all due respect Tom (and with none to Topman for his 'amusing' ageist pictures of Foggy, Compo and Clegg) you just have no idea of the sh1t that is in store for you. I don't think many under 35 will have any idea either. Even supposing that BRFC manage to survive the financial maelstrom which is fast approaching you and your generation simply don't know what is going to hit you. You are part of a generation spoiled by the influence of a rich man. Pontificate about enjoyment, ego's, limited time or whatever but remember our status in the Premier league was precious and rare to us old uns. The chickens have well and truly come home to roost with the departure of the Walker influence. Pinch yourselves cos true reallity is from now on in.

The plain fact is that BRFC were punching above our weight but so many had got so used to it that we thought it would be forever. In effect we are a tiny town club who are (God willing) about to find our rightful level in footballs heirarchy. Mark my words it's sh1t down the leagues. Despondancy and despair will soon test all your loyalty.

Not true Gordon. I don't think you are right in saying that all young fans were spoilt by watching premier league football and will hate it lower down the leagues. if you look at most of the lower clubs, many of their fans, even fans of clubs that have been in the big league and are now down, fans genuinely enjoy going to matches. The football we watched, not just the style but the whole atmosphere where you knew what you'd get before you got there, was dreadful under Allardyce. It was sapping the spirit of many. Now I kept going because I felt that results were good enough and you are right about winning being the only thing that ultimately matters in terms of league position. However, you are talking about football as though it hasn't changed since the days of standing on the terraces - it has, and as in everything, the thing fans demand now is that football is entertaining as well as winning football. I rarely remember being entertained under allardyce. I do remember being entertained under Hughes and Souness, both men who also knew how to get a hard game won, but understood that football is more than just getting the science right. Fans were bored, not with the winning - fans love that- but with the whole atmosphere that suggested we were already dropping down and could never be trusted to play any kind of expansive game at any point just in case we conceded a goal , even if we were already well on top and there was little time left.

Now, I don't expect Barcelona style football from my team - I don't even particularly like Barcelona type football, finding it frustrating as another perfect pass goes in but nobody seems to want to take any risks. But you do want a sense of anticipation that what you will see will be a good contest, well fought with some flair and enthusiasm, and something other than an eventual one-nil scoreline to excite the crowd, because while it's nice to go home with that winning feeling, great even, football has to have more than that, not even every week, but enough of the time to bring folks back - you haven't struggled to fill your time whilst boycotting Kean's Ewood this year - many who wondered whether to go to matches under Allardyce probably had lots of other options on how to fill their time and would have eventually found those things more enjoyable.

[MarkBRFC71]

2012's most predictable post from the decade's most predictable poster?

For the last time (because the whole posthumous Sam love-in is almost as interminably dull as you), at the time, with the promise of investment, the strong links to better managers like Jol and O'Neill, and with no idea who Steve Kean was, sacking Sam was a positive but perhaps ill-timed move. Looking back, suspecting now that Kean being manager was likely pre-engineered, he was the only name in the frame, and having just endured 18 months of lies, deceit and ineptitude, the owners getting Venky's to sack Sam was bad move - but was always going to happen whatever the fans, press or the man himself said or did. Would I rather have Sam than Kean? Absolutely.

Now I know Sam completes your man-crush triumvirate (with MGP and Tony Blair) but at least in public can we just forget about him? We should be united in wanting Kean and Venky's out, not arguing over the sacking of an average time under and average manager. Get over it and move on.

[Stuart]

Hang on, Theno, I thought you were staying away because of Steve Kean and the Venksters, not because of relegation?

That post suggests you'll never return whilst we are in the lower divisions because it's crap. I think it's not just the young 'uns who've been spoiled by life in the top division.

I hate the current regime as much as the next person, but there's no guarantee Sam would have stayed for much longer under the Trust (being asked to finish mid-to-top every season whilst scraping round underneath the bargain bin). Without the experience of someone like Sam relegation was always possible, probable even.

I'm in no way defending Venkys but given our levels of support (good though they are for the size of the town), unless they franchised it off, it was unlikely we would have been perpetually at the top table.

[thenodrog]

Should we have sacked Sam? If it meant getting a better manager like Jol or O'Neill as it appeared at the time then yes.

WHAT ON EARTH MAKES YOU THINK THOSE TWO ARE BETTER THAN ALLARDYCE? PLAIN FACTS PLEASE MARK.

I'm hoping relegation - hell, even another one or two relegations - means we can clear out all the deadwood, crooks and incompetents and start over.

DREAM ON. FROM NOW ON WE CAN ONLY SIGN DEADWOOD.

Kalinic? And he was a roaring success.

A GAMBLE THAT FAILED BROUGHT ON THROUGH NECESSITY AND KALINIC WAS NOT ONE OF ALLARDYCES PRIMARY TARGETS AT THAT TIME. NOT QUITE IN GRABBI'S / DAHLINS / BLAKES / PER PEDERSONS LEAGUE THOUGH. BTW SA HAD NOWT TO DO WITH SIGNING THEM HAD HE?

Sigurdsson has been a great loan signing (7 goals in 18 games from midfield), so while they've paid a lot he's obviously got talent.

As for other teams, Wigan, Fulham, West Brom - all remained in the Prem without recourse to cynical football.

ODD HOW MARTINEZ NOW APPEARS TO HAVE GOD LIKE STATUS. 3 MONTHS AGO WIGAN WERE ABYSMAL AND EVERYONES FAVOURITES FOR RELEGATION. HE WAS DEAD IN THE WATER AND LPOOL FANS WOULD HAVE RIOTED IN THE STREETS IF HE HAD BEEN APPROACHED FOR MANAGER BACK THEN.... I DONT KNOW WHY THEY AREN'T NOW TBH.

JOL HAS FAILED MASSIVELY AND BEEN SACKED IN 2 OUT OF 3 JOBS IN THIS COUNTRY TO DATE. HE IS CURRENTLY LIVING OFF MARK HUGHES'S LEGACY.

HODGSON MADE SOME AWFUL SIGNINGS, LOST THE PLAYERS AND WAS RIGHTLY BOMBED OUT OF BRFC AND NO ONE OBJECTED IN THE SLIGHTEST.

[Stuart]

many who wondered whether to go to matches under Allardyce probably had lots of other options on how to fill their time and would have eventually found those things more enjoyable.

I konw it's not the point of the bit I've quoted but we had bumper crowds whilst Allardyce was in charge. Probably for the last time. It was only under Kean and co that people have walked away.

[Mattyblue]

We had two summers when Sam was manager, plenty of time for the hordes of 'bored fans' to throw their renewals in the bin- looking at the numbers, hardly anyone did.

Compare and contrast with the summers we have had since.

Fans like their club to win home games over anything else. Fact.

[Tom]

Gordon - I only ever speak for myself but I can say I was becoming bored with the whole thing, maybe i'm lucky in a way that I can detach myself from it and walk away for a while if needed

Sam was 100% right for the club I won't dispute that and I'd always have supported the club under him and the last regime but I had reached a point of almost indifference - like a say that may have been other circumstances

[broadsword]

Winning is the absolute bottom line. If you're not winning, nothing else matters. Not that the football was particularly pleasing to the eye, but it was infinitely preferable to the disaster we have now.

[Guest SuperAgentJB]

We should be united in wanting Kean and Venky's out, not arguing over the sacking of an average time under and average manager. Get over it and move on.

You say average, most realised at the time he was the best we would of ever had without funding. He wasn't using the club as a stepping stone (ala the previous two before him) and his experience of getting Bolton into the top half played directly into our hands.

It's important to bring this up - not boring as you say, purely because that was the last time we had top flight security, with a top flight manager. Not some ten a penny coach. Yet, at the time I knew so many people who would MOAN MOAN MOAN about the football. Most of the time, when we won at home strangely enough.

And the reason why I deem that important? Because most of the "Sam Haters" stopped watching the club in the 18 months of Keans reign(I was described as a "Luvvie" at the time)

I was disgusted by some of our fans then, I even had some ridiculous idea that it was down to cheap season tickets. "Cheap tickets - Cheap fans"

Oh, how little we really had to worry about...

[den]

I honestly think we've had largely bugger all to write home about - for whatever reason - since Hughes left. Ince was totally inept, Sam was full of self-importance, self-promotion and agricultural tactics albeit with a modicum of success, and the less said about Kean the better. Was Sam the best manager since Hughes? Absolutely. Should we have sacked Sam? If it meant getting a better manager like Jol or O'Neill as it appeared at the time then yes. If the only option was Kean then no, it was wrong. It seems that the latter was the plan before Venky's even officially arrived so nothing anyone did or said had any effect - it was always going to happen.

Don't remember you/Topman or any of the facebook fans caring at all about who would replace him. To use your own words "self-importance, self-promotion and agricultural tactics" was your belief and coloured your judgement, over and above what was best for BRFC.

You say average, most realised at the time he was the best we would of ever had without funding.

He was made to take millions of value off the pitch.

[Paul]

Not true Gordon. I don't think you are right in saying that all young fans were.............. those things more enjoyable.

Excellent post and sums up my feelings and many I know.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

With all due respect Tom (and with none to Topman for his 'amusing' ageist pictures of Foggy, Compo and Clegg) you just have no idea of the sh1t that is in store for you. I don't think many under 35-40 will have any idea either. Even supposing that BRFC manage to survive the financial maelstrom which is fast approaching you and your generation simply don't know what is going to hit you. You are part of a generation spoiled by the influence of a rich man. Pontificate about enjoyment, ego's, limited time or whatever but remember our status in the Premier league was precious and rare to us old uns. The chickens have well and truly come home to roost with the departure of the Walker influence. Pinch yourselves cos true reallity is from now on in.

The plain fact is that BRFC were punching above our weight but so many had got so used to it that we thought it would be forever. In effect we are a tiny town club who are (God willing) about to find our rightful level in footballs heirarchy. Mark my words it's sh1t down the leagues. Despondancy and despair with the future situation will soon test all your loyalty. You are about to appreciate the 'boredom' you mentioned to a degree that you could never imagine.

You paint a very depressing picture Theno but its sadly one that is not far from reality,its going to be a shock for many.We all dined at Jacks table and had our bellies full,I suppose now its time for some lean times but like most,I was hoping to dine at the top table for a little longer...football is all about cycles of success and failure for 'town' clubs such as we and always has been.

Its just that our return to mediocrity has been very much accelerated by total incompetents currently at the helm...that alone is hard to take

[bannedwidth]

Interesting reading the first page of this thread. It doesnt look good.

[Fife Rover]

With all due respect Tom (and with none to Topman for his 'amusing' ageist pictures of Foggy, Compo and Clegg) you just have no idea of the sh1t that is in store for you. I don't think many under 35-40 will have any idea either. Even supposing that BRFC manage to survive the financial maelstrom which is fast approaching you and your generation simply don't know what is going to hit you. You are part of a generation spoiled by the influence of a rich man. Pontificate about enjoyment, ego's, limited time or whatever but remember our status in the Premier league was precious and rare to us old uns. The chickens have well and truly come home to roost with the departure of the Walker influence. Pinch yourselves cos true reallity is from now on in.

The plain fact is that BRFC were punching above our weight but so many had got so used to it that we thought it would be forever. In effect we are a tiny town club who are (God willing) about to find our rightful level in footballs heirarchy. Mark my words it's sh1t down the leagues. Despondancy and despair with the future situation will soon test all your loyalty. You are about to appreciate the 'boredom' you mentioned to a degree that you could never imagine.

Sorry Theno but although I DO thoroughly understand all that you are saying, and I DO agree it will come as a right smack in the face with a wet kipper effect on those who haven't been through it before, I must disagree that the whole experience of playing in the lower divisions is s**t.

I never found it too distressing to suffer through the various ups and downs that I have seen as a Rovers fan since 1946; and that includes the whole spectrum of up and downside. We will survive ....we always have done and we always will.

[patrickvalery]

Not true Gordon. I don't think you are right in saying that all young fans were spoilt by watching premier league football and will hate it lower down the leagues. if you look at most of the lower clubs, many of their fans, even fans of clubs that have been in the big league and are now down, fans genuinely enjoy going to matches. The football we watched, not just the style but the whole atmosphere where you knew what you'd get before you got there, was dreadful under Allardyce......................

+1 great post.

Allardyce was the perfect fit for Rovers at a time when the owners stopped funding and the fans still expected premier league football. He introduced a style of play which was as close as you could get to guaranteeing our PL status. I, and i would say 95% of all Rovers fans applauded him for that. But here is the rub....to appreciate the reasons behind it and the success in keeping us mid way up the league doesn't mean you have to like it. I could get gangrene in my legs and the docs could amputate them. Every morning i would be grateful to be alive but every morning i'd also miss by bloody legs. Allardyce was the best man for the job and i believe he is a very very competant manager who gets results. But it is perfectly acceptable to question his entertainment value. Clearly there is a large percentage of fans who don't believe this, but for me, football is about entertainment. Otherwise why pay to watch it on your weekend off? If its about results then invest in stocks and shares and get your kicks from reading the FT.

I like Allardyce the man. I'd very much like to see him get a big job with a good budget and see how he fares. In fact, i wouldn't be at all disappointed to see him manage England one day. But i won't sit here pining for an ex manager and i won't pretend the memories of his time here were sweeter than they really were. It was successful pragmatic football not for the purists. Infinately better than what we've got now, but also considerably worse than some of the football served up by previous incumbents. A decent man, a great manager with real presence and authority. Treated terribly by our shambolic owners and stabbed in the back by our fraud of a manager.

One final thing which should be remembered by all those having the Allardyce love in. The fans didn't get Allardyce the boot. So all this 'i told you so', 'we were right all along' is utterly pointless. Because i don't recall more than a handful of fans demanding his removal. So why the moral high ground has been taken amongst fans is beyond me. Its the owners who need the 'i told you so' guff.

[Crunching Tackler]

+1 great post.

Allardyce was the perfect fit for Rovers at a time when the owners stopped funding and the fans still expected premier league football. He introduced a style of play which was as close as you could get to guaranteeing our PL status. I, and i would say 95% of all Rovers fans applauded him for that. But here is the rub....to appreciate the reasons behind it and the success in keeping us mid way up the league doesn't mean you have to like it. I could get gangrene in my legs and the docs could amputate them. Every morning i would be grateful to be alive but every morning i'd also miss by bloody legs. Allardyce was the best man for the job and i believe he is a very very competant manager who gets results. But it is perfectly acceptable to question his entertainment value. Clearly there is a large percentage of fans who don't believe this, but for me, football is about entertainment. Otherwise why pay to watch it on your weekend off? If its about results then invest in stocks and shares and get your kicks from reading the FT.

I like Allardyce the man. I'd very much like to see him get a big job with a good budget and see how he fares. In fact, i wouldn't be at all disappointed to see him manage England one day. But i won't sit here pining for an ex manager and i won't pretend the memories of his time here were sweeter than they really were. It was successful pragmatic football not for the purists. Infinately better than what we've got now, but also considerably worse than some of the football served up by previous incumbents. A decent man, a great manager with real presence and authority. Treated terribly by our shambolic owners and stabbed in the back by our fraud of a manager.

One final thing which should be remembered by all those having the Allardyce love in. The fans didn't get Allardyce the boot. So all this 'i told you so', 'we were right all along' is utterly pointless. Because i don't recall more than a handful of fans demanding his removal. So why the moral high ground has been taken amongst fans is beyond me. Its the owners who need the 'i told you so' guff.

Perfect. Spot on. Everyone should read this

[Mattyblue]

I honestly cannot comperehend those that think supporting your football club is about expecting an 'attractive style of play' over the joy you get from seeing your team win.

Amazes me.

[den]

I honestly cannot comperehend those that think supporting your football club is about expecting an 'attractive style of play' over the joy you get from seeing your team win.

Amazes me.

They don't really mean it though Matty. They think they do, but they don't. Winning football = bigger attendances, losing football = falling attendances.

Apart from which, you can't finish high up the league without being constantly better than the opposition. You can't finish high up the Premier league by playing "only agricultural football". If you could, Torquay could give Chelsea a game.

They kid themselves.