[Archived] The Dawn Of A New Era

[Andy]

Was clearing out some old emails at work when I came across one from a colleague from March last year debating our preferred starting line-up... when you look at this and what we ended up with this season it's no wonder we went down:

Robbo

Emerton Samba Nelsen Givet

Hoilett J Jones P Jones Olsson

Niko Roque

And Kean still nearly took that side down...

[thenodrog]

I'm tired of being reasonable with you people. Jim & Drog are too set in their ways to debate like adults.

Heck of an irony there.

[Pedro]

Congratulation bish1982, that's the worst and most dismissive reply I've ever read on here - and there have been many

[Mattyblue]

Why peds?

Managers should be sacked over results or perhaps gross misconduct. Step up Mr Kean.

Nothing you mentioned are valid reasons.

[Silencio]

Congratulation bish1982, that's the worst and most dismissive reply I've ever read on here - and there have been many

So you honestly think that the "cost of his contract" or the idea that Phil Gartside might "hate him" are valid reasons for firing him? Seriously?

[bradeagle]

So you honestly think that the "cost of his contract" or the idea that Phil Gartside might "hate him" are valid reasons for firing him? Seriously?

Whats the point in arguing about this? Whats going to change the here and now?

[Majiball]

So you honestly think that the "cost of his contract" or the idea that Phil Gartside might "hate him" are valid reasons for firing him? Seriously?

Do you honestly think these 'things' in charge of our club used normal reasoning to sack Sam?

Did they ever.

[Silencio]

Whats the point in arguing about this? Whats going to change the here and now?

Maybe one day the people who got it so wrong might learn to appreciate it when we have a decent manager...

Do you honestly think these 'things' in charge of our club used normal reasoning to sack Sam?

No, but imagine if Pedro, Mark, Topman and Gav had bought the club instead of Venky's. With their "reasoning", we could be even worse off than we are now!!!

[Guest SuperAgentJB]

Whats the point in arguing about this? Whats going to change the here and now?

Pointless debating current owners and manager then is it... Hasn't changed a thing has it?

[Majiball]

Maybe one day the people who got it so wrong might learn to appreciate it when we have a decent manager...

No, but imagive if Pedro, Mark, Topman and Gav had bought the club instead of Venky's, we could be even worse off than we are now!!!

So since you acknowledge that to be the case, does that not render the arguement null and void?

To be fair I was one of his biggest detractors and still am. His style of play goes against all I believe in, in football. I didn't want him sacked but knew he could take the shackles off as he had previously with what we had already.

[Amo]

No, but imagine if Pedro, Mark, Topman and Gav had bought the club instead of Venky's. With their "reasoning", we could be even worse off than we are now!!!

The bigger irony is that we WOULDN'T.

Under my ownership, fans would soon be asking "Jack who?"

[bradeagle]

Pointless debating current owners and manager then is it... Hasn't changed a thing has it?

My point being you can argue about this till you are blue in the face but its not going to change what we are left with now. You could say if dalglish didnt leave and we strengthened the squad in 95 we would have won the league 3 yrs on the bounce. Doesnt help us now does it.

Im not sure you could have read where i posted that or you wouldnt have responded like that.

[Gav]

Maybe one day the people who got it so wrong might learn to appreciate it when we have a decent manager...

No, but imagine if Pedro, Mark, Topman and Gav had bought the club instead of Venky's. With their "reasoning", we could be even worse off than we are now!!!

My reasoning?

Its only my second post on this thread, both aimed at you for bringing my name into the fold.

[Guest SuperAgentJB]

My point being you can argue about this till you are blue in the face but its not going to change what we are left with now. You could say if dalglish didnt leave and we strengthened the squad in 95 we would have won the league 3 yrs on the bounce. Doesnt help us now does it.

Im not sure you could have read where i posted that or you wouldnt have responded like that.

No I did, it's just that history is WORTH debating.

Whilst watching the Blackpool vs West Ham game in the playoffs, one of my friends who is a fellow ST holder could not say one positive thing about Sam from the offing. Any amount of praise given to him is false in his eyes. Strangely enough this fella was happy to see the back of Sam, moaned about his tactics from day one and applauded the mantra of replacing a proven manager with someone attempting to play "total football"*

Fair enough, he obviously realises that SK was a bad choice, but he still cannot give Sam 1 ounce of praise due to the way he dislikes him. Fair enough, I think he is an ego-maniac. I agree with him to a certain extent, but you have to judge someone on their record, and the guy is proven top flight material regardless of the way he acts or achieves it.

Plain and simply - He is discrediting someones achievements or abilities due to hatred or dislike of the character. Hence the discussion 18 months on. If you reword that description slightly its very close to racism, sexism, ageism etc.

Now THAT is a debate

[Silencio]

My reasoning?

Its only my second post on this thread, both aimed at you for bringing my name into the fold.

Fair enough. My apologies. The other 3 have contributed plenty. I'm right in thinking you wanted SA out, aren't I?

[thenodrog]

No, but imagine if Pedro, Mark, Topman and Gav had bought the club instead of Venky's. With their "reasoning", we could be even worse off than we are now!!!

I agree entirely. A frightening thought of the club in the hands of people who not only do not understand the basics of football but are completely ignorant of the basics of business too. No doubt they'd be paying one of the Martins 10m pa and providing him an open chequebook. Not many could make the Venkeys look capable band responsible owners but they certainly would.

Unfortunately bish you have chosen the wrong emoticons at the end. The thought of that scenario is not at all funny.

[bradeagle]

No I did, it's just that history is WORTH debating.

Whilst watching the Blackpool vs West Ham game in the playoffs, one of my friends who is a fellow ST holder could not say one positive thing about Sam from the offing. Any amount of praise given to him is false in his eyes. Strangely enough this fella was happy to see the back of Sam, moaned about his tactics from day one and applauded the mantra of replacing a proven manager with someone attempting to play "total football"*

Fair enough, he obviously realises that SK was a bad choice, but he still cannot give Sam 1 ounce of praise due to the way he dislikes him. Fair enough, I think he is an ego-maniac. I agree with him to a certain extent, but you have to judge someone on their record, and the guy is proven top flight material regardless of the way he acts or achieves it.

Plain and simply - He is discrediting someones achievements or abilities due to hatred or dislike of the character. Hence the discussion 18 months on. If you reword that description slightly its very close to racism, sexism, ageism etc.

Now THAT is a debate

Honestly not being funny with you but the first line of your response was the only part relevent to my point. I just think its a waste of time debating the past when there is nothing you can do do change it, it just always ends up as an annoying frustrating argument. If we did this if we did that etc. No one can ever prove anyone wrong.

[thenodrog]

So since you acknowledge that to be the case, does that not render the arguement null and void?

To be fair I was one of his biggest detractors and still am. His style of play goes against all I believe in, in football. I didn't want him sacked but knew he could take the shackles off as he had previously with what we had already.

How many bloody times do you need to be told Maj..... Allardyce (on a tiny budget) was under strict orders from the Trust via Williams to stay in the Premier League. No more and no less from what we have been told. It could only ever be safety first. Allardyce was the expert not Kean as we now have come to realise..... and not you either thank goodness. As Ivan Lendl always claimed 'grass is for cows' .

btw... Is this daft football ideal cos you is Scottish?

The bigger irony is that we WOULDN'T.

Under my ownership, fans would soon be asking "Jack who?"

Jack Who? I'm sure Jack Sh1t would have become your nickname by now.

[Gav]

Fair enough. My apologies. The other 3 have contributed plenty. I'm right in thinking you wanted SA out, aren't I?

No problem, and yes you're right, I wanted Allardyce out.

[thenodrog]

No I did, it's just that history is WORTH debating.

Whilst watching the Blackpool vs West Ham game in the playoffs, one of my friends who is a fellow ST holder could not say one positive thing about Sam from the offing. Any amount of praise given to him is false in his eyes. Strangely enough this fella was happy to see the back of Sam, moaned about his tactics from day one and applauded the mantra of replacing a proven manager with someone attempting to play "total football"*

Nobody likes owning up to being so wrong do they? (Specially not folks around here who could never even trap a wet sandbag.)

Except me of course. I don't mind cos it only happen very rarely and there are always excellent reasons and sound thinking behind it.

[Guest SuperAgentJB]

Honestly not being funny with you but the first line of your response was the only part relevent to my point. I just think its a waste of time debating the past when there is nothing you can do do change it, it just always ends up as an annoying frustrating argument. If we did this if we did that etc. No one can ever prove anyone wrong.

Proving somebody wrong is not the point of a debate. For me at least. Sharing knowledge, educating yourself to have a sounder opinion and gaining scope from other walks of life is more important that simple point scoring.

This thread may seem like old news, but I believe it is very relevant to our current situation. It was the beginning of the end of top flight football. The lessons we have learnt from our experiences are pretty much all the see in the this particular thread.

If we can, as you say, change or found our opinions of what the next best step is - looking back to the so called "dawn of a new era" is probably a good start.

[thenodrog]

Fair enough. My apologies. The other 3 have contributed plenty. I'm right in thinking you wanted SA out, aren't I?

Yup..... Gav and so he told us everybody for countless rows around him on the BBurn end, and all bis friends and aquaintences, and all the people on his street, and all the people he knows in the pub and the entire travelling support at away matches etc etc all wanted Allardyce out.

[Gav]

Yup..... Gav and so he told us everybody for countless rows around him on the BBurn end, and all bis friends and aquaintences, and all the people on his street, and all the people he knows in the pub and the entire travelling support at away matches etc etc all wanted Allardyce out.

I've already answered the question, do keep up.

[thenodrog]

Honestly not being funny with you but the first line of your response was the only part relevent to my point. I just think its a waste of time debating the past when there is nothing you can do do change it, it just always ends up as an annoying frustrating argument. If we did this if we did that etc. No one can ever prove anyone wrong.

You are wrong bradeagle. Never heard of 'learning the lessons of history'? How about 'learning from ones mistakes' or even 'what goes around comes around'?

Life is one long learning curve and should always be treated as such.

I've already answered the question, do keep up.

Not when I started to reply you hadn't. btw Don't shoot the messenger.

[Gav]

Not when I started to reply you hadn't. btw Don't shoot the messenger.

I'm not sure what message you're bringing, but do carry on, the entire board is enthralled ZZZzzzzz