[Archived] The Dawn Of A New Era

[Majiball]

I seem to remember last season against Arsenal away we took the game to them, did well in the first half but still ended up being overrun in the second half and losing 6-2.

I agree we have a problem away against the big teams, but I don't think it's quite as simple as Sam saying "go on lads, have a go, take the game to them" and playing an attacking formation.

You should also consider our defence that day. Was chimbonda not at CB, Olsson at left back? Jacobsen playing as well.

ARSENAL (4-3-2-1): Mannone 6; Sagna 6, Gallas 6, Vermaelen 7, Clichy 6; Fabregas 9 (Ramsey 76, 5), Song 7, Diaby 6; Rosicky 8 (Walcott 69, 6), Arshavin 7 (Bendtner 76, 5); Van Persie 7. Booked: Van Persie.

BLACKBURN (4-2-3-1): Robinson 6; Jacobsen 5, Givet 6, Chimbonda 5, Olsson 5; Andrews 5, NZonzi 6; Emerton 5 (Pedersen 55, 3), Dunn 7 (McCarthy 62 (Hoilett 70, 4)), Diouf 5; Di Santo 4. Booked: Di Santo.

I think if we could add in Samba, Nelsen, Salgado, today's MGP and Roberts, then we have a much stronger team.

One thing I really take from that is that Sam was willing to have a go with a depleted squad and yet when at full strength he wants to sit back and defend.

I realise its not as simple as saying have a go, but trying to attack them and playing a bit higher up the pitch could hardly be as bad as losing 7-1, 4-0, 5-0 and so on as we have. I'd like to see a full strength team go to one of these places and try to play as opposed to trying to stop them play.

[tony gale's mic]

You should also consider our defence that day. Was chimbonda not at CB, Olsson at left back? Jacobsen playing as well.

ARSENAL (4-3-2-1): Mannone 6; Sagna 6, Gallas 6, Vermaelen 7, Clichy 6; Fabregas 9 (Ramsey 76, 5), Song 7, Diaby 6; Rosicky 8 (Walcott 69, 6), Arshavin 7 (Bendtner 76, 5); Van Persie 7. Booked: Van Persie.

BLACKBURN (4-2-3-1): Robinson 6; Jacobsen 5, Givet 6, Chimbonda 5, Olsson 5; Andrews 5, NZonzi 6; Emerton 5 (Pedersen 55, 3), Dunn 7 (McCarthy 62 (Hoilett 70, 4)), Diouf 5; Di Santo 4. Booked: Di Santo.

I think if we could add in Samba, Nelsen, Salgado, today's MGP and Roberts, then we have a much stronger team.

One thing I really take from that is that Sam was willing to have a go with a depleted squad and yet when at full strength he wants to sit back and defend.

We didn't exactly have our first choice team out on Saturday either.

How can you possibly draw those conclusions from that?

I don't think Sam's, or any experienced Premier League manager's, tactics are so simple as to say "go out and have a go" or "sit back and defend". Obviously when we lose 7-1 getting the tactics wrong is a big part of the reason, but I find all this stuff about "going out and having a go" absolute nonsense.

[Fife Rover]

I realise its not as simple as saying have a go, but trying to attack them and playing a bit higher up the pitch could hardly be as bad as losing 7-1, 4-0, 5-0 and so on as we have. I'd like to see a full strength team go to one of these places and try to play as opposed to trying to stop them play.

Exactly! would much rather see us going in to any team (regardless of their status) and playing flat out to win if possible and defending as and when necessary. We should show no fear for ANY team we play. Respect yes, but NEVER fear.

And if as a result of that we do get tonked by a good margin......well so what? At least we will have had a go and not just cowered away and played like a set of wimps! It is better to lose 7-1 having a real go than lose 7-1 without even trying

[Majiball]

We didn't exactly have our first choice team out on Saturday either.

How can you possibly draw those conclusions from that?

I don't think Sam's, or any experienced Premier League manager's, tactics are so simple as to say "go out and have a go" or "sit back and defend". Obviously when we lose 7-1 getting the tactics wrong is a big part of the reason, but I find all this stuff about "going out and having a go" absolute nonsense.

I realise its not as simple as saying have a go, but trying to attack them and playing a bit higher up the pitch could hardly be as bad as losing 7-1, 4-0, 5-0 and so on as we have. I'd like to see a full strength team go to one of these places and try to play as opposed to trying to stop them play.

There's a world of difference between the two back lines:

United away:

Salgado Samba Nelsen Chimbonda

Arsenal away:

Jacobsen Chimbonda Givet Olsson

We may not have been at full strength on Sat, but that backline is pretty much our strongest, its only missing Givet. The arsenal one is missing 3 first choices.

The point I'm trying to make is that if we take the approach we did at arsenal, but do so with a stronger backline then we might see a result that's not so one sided. At the end of the day we've tried this tactic several times now and have been humiliated more than once, its time to try something different. Look at Chelsea at home, Arsenal, United last season, the Carling cup. Did we try and take the game too them or did we sit deep? We can do it at home, so lets try it away.

[tony gale's mic]

I wouldn't say there's a world of difference. Jacobsen has more legs than Salgado though probably isn't as strong in the tackle. And whilst Olsson has his weaknesses at left back, there's no way he was worse than Chimbonda was on Saturday. Givet is very good at centre half and so really the only glaring difference is having an out of position Chimbonda at centre back.

I think we do need a change of tactics but I think we need to look at both our defensive tactics AND our attacking tactics. Because even if you set out to sit and defend, you shouldn't be getting absolutely thrashed. I doubt trying to hit them with waves of attacks will work with the sheer lack of creativity and pace in our midfield and lack of power up front, but maybe with a signing or two this Jan that might change.

[47er]

I wonder----- if we'd been playing Wolves at home on Saturday instead of Manu away, would Pedersen have been out injured?

[gumboots]

I wonder----- if we'd been playing Wolves at home on Saturday instead of Manu away, would Pedersen have been out injured?

Possibly not since Allardyce said he was 90% fit anyway so in a home game where we would probably be going for a win, he'd probably have played at least a half.

[Majiball]

I wouldn't say there's a world of difference. Jacobsen has more legs than Salgado though probably isn't as strong in the tackle. And whilst Olsson has his weaknesses at left back, there's no way he was worse than Chimbonda was on Saturday. Givet is very good at centre half and so really the only glaring difference is having an out of position Chimbonda at centre back.

And here's the beauty of football. I never rated Jacobsen and felt he wasn't up to the job, he panicked too much when he had the ball and wasn't the best defender I've seen. Olsson for me is no full back he has poor positioning and for me he's far more effective at left wing where he has thrived.

I think we do need a change of tactics but I think we need to look at both our defensive tactics AND our attacking tactics. Because even if you set out to sit and defend, you shouldn't be getting absolutely thrashed. I doubt trying to hit them with waves of attacks will work with the sheer lack of creativity and pace in our midfield and lack of power up front, but maybe with a signing or two this Jan that might change.

Your right it doesn't matter how we approach the game we should not be getting dicked everytime we go away to one of the big boys. I don't understand why Hoillet was dropped, if your sitting deep you need a player (or two) who have the pace to get up and support the front man, as you say. Rafael was practically playing as a second winger at times and Hoillet would have hopefully given us a chance to expose the space he left behind him. We had the chance to start with pace in our midfield but we benched him. I thought Emerton would have been given the nod in the middle to replace MGP instead of throwing Goulon to the lions. But if he's prepared to throw Goulon in, then why not Hoillet? Thats a strange one for me.

I expected us to line up like this:

Robbo

Salgado Samba Nelsen Chimbonda

Jones Emerton

Diouf Dunn Hoillet

Roberts

That way there's only one real change from our previous matches, Emerton. Sam moved round 3 players instead also adding in a player in the middle who the rest most likely don't really know how to play with yet. We'd had 3 good results previously so surely to keep that continuity in the team, you move round the fewest pieces?

Goulon has been doing alright in the reserves and his confidence must have slowly been on the rise, but after Sat he's bound to be asking himself a question or two.

[Amo]

Your right it doesn't matter how we approach the game we should not be getting dicked everytime we go away to one of the big boys. I don't understand why Hoillet was dropped, if your sitting deep you need a player (or two) who have the pace to get up and support the front man, as you say. Rafael was practically playing as a second winger at times and Hoillet would have hopefully given us a chance to expose the space he left behind him. We had the chance to start with pace in our midfield but we benched him. I thought Emerton would have been given the nod in the middle to replace MGP instead of throwing Goulon to the lions. But if he's prepared to throw Goulon in, then why not Hoillet? Thats a strange one for me.

I don't think it's strange when you consider the game was written off by the manager.

[Majiball]

I don't think it's strange when you consider the game was written off by the manager.

there's part of me that says your right and he did. But then there's another part of me that wouldn't do that myself so don't believe that Sam would.

[Parsonblue]

The important point/worrying note is Sam used up a lot of the goodwill going for him with that humiliation. No point debating the niceties- it was a humiliation in Manchester, in Blackburn, in Pune and wherever else in the world people have the best interests of Rovers at heart.

It seems the new owners have been remarkably restrained and supportive which is good news. There will have been enough sore and hurting people as it is so it sounds like they pitched it right.

Two points phillipl.

Firstly I think what Sam has achieved at this club on a shoestring budget - in Premier League terms - has earned him far more respect than he his often given. I was at Old Trafford on Saturday and while it's not nice to see your team overrun like that, there are times when you have to hold your hands up and say that on the day we were simply outclassed. Like the Chelsea match last season, when world class players play to their full potential we struggle to live with them although, in fairness, the football that the opposition produced on both occasions was a joy to watch.

Secondly, I'm not convinced that the now owers are restrained or supportive in their statements about the manager. Personally, I dont't think that the statement about how they know about Sam's reputation but are prepared to give him a chance to prove himself is at all helpful and merely undermines the manager. Regardless of whether you like Sam or not, the fact remains that he managed in the Premier League for a decade and enjoyed success as a manager before that in the lower divisions. Personally, I don't think he has anything to prove to anybody. This coming on top of the statement that winning is not enough but that the new owner demands entertainment I find very worrying as it suggests that they want to pull the managerial strings. Hopefully, Saturday will prove to Mrs Desai that entertainment comes at a price and I'm not convinced that the £5 million talked about is going to be sufficient to turn the style of football around to meet the needs of the owners.

My main concern is that the new owners will interfere far too much in the football side of the club. Chelsea is an excellent example of what happens when owners become too involved in team affairs.

Everything I have read so far suggests to me that the new owners plan a complete shake up of the club in the summer and I'm beginning to feel that Sam and his staff will be out and that Kentaro will be involved in restructing the football side of things.

[chris]

My main concern is that the new owners will interfere far too much in the football side of the club. Chelsea is an excellent example of what happens when owners become too involved in team affairs.

unbelieveable success?

I do know what you mean though, Mike ashley probably got it wrong by being too involved.

Funny how Newcaslte fans dislike him when he has invested something like 200 million.

[Jackson]

I seem to remember last season against Arsenal away we took the game to them, did well in the first half but still ended up being overrun in the second half and losing 6-2.

'Twas a great game to watch, mind.

[Exiled in Toronto]

...until Allardyce took Dunn off - our best player on the day - when it went 4-2, thus giving up the game when we had just been denied a clear penalty and were still taking it to them.

[darwenblueswearehere]

Your right it doesn't matter how we approach the game we should not be getting dicked everytime we go away to one of the big boys. I don't understand why Hoillet was dropped, if your sitting deep you need a player (or two) who have the pace to get up and support the front man, as you say. Rafael was practically playing as a second winger at times and Hoillet would have hopefully given us a chance to expose the space he left behind him. We had the chance to start with pace in our midfield but we benched him. I thought Emerton would have been given the nod in the middle to replace MGP instead of throwing Goulon to the lions. But if he's prepared to throw Goulon in, then why not Hoillet? Thats a strange one for me.

I expected us to line up like this:

Robbo

Salgado Samba Nelsen Chimbonda

Jones Emerton

Diouf Dunn Hoillet

Roberts

That way there's only one real change from our previous matches, Emerton. Sam moved round 3 players instead also adding in a player in the middle who the rest most likely don't really know how to play with yet. We'd had 3 good results previously so surely to keep that continuity in the team, you move round the fewest pieces?

Goulon has been doing alright in the reserves and his confidence must have slowly been on the rise, but after Sat he's bound to be asking himself a question or two.

This would have made much more sense than what he put out.

[beerwins]

...until Allardyce took Dunn off - our best player on the day - when it went 4-2, thus giving up the game when we had just been denied a clear penalty and were still taking it to them.

Spot on, and where does it say that you must go all out attack or all out defend there are ways of mixing it up.

You have to start matches with a belief you can win and that belief must be given by the manager to the players, we went into the match too negative, Utd got 3 early goals and with them playing well and now full of confidence it made it impossible to get any kind of foothold back in the game, if they had got 2 goals and we managed to get one back it may well have been a different second half with some of Utd's players having to sit back while we attacked, but we just tried to stop the rot after the break giving them all the time they wanted to play football.

A player must have the mindset that he can do some good on the field and if that player is attacking minded he is just going to be confused at the defensive tactics and demoralised, never before have I found it hard to find one player in our team that really tried or looked up for it, they all looked very down and disheartened and that was before utd had a 3 goal lead.

Motivation is key against the top four because of the standard of their players you have to want it more to win, I always looked forward to these games because I used to love to see little ol Rovers have a go at them, I dread them at the moment

[PAFELL]

Spot on, and where does it say that you must go all out attack or all out defend there are ways of mixing it up.

You have to start matches with a belief you can win and that belief must be given by the manager to the players, we went into the match too negative, Utd got 3 early goals and with them playing well and now full of confidence it made it impossible to get any kind of foothold back in the game, if they had got 2 goals and we managed to get one back it may well have been a different second half with some of Utd's players having to sit back while we attacked, but we just tried to stop the rot after the break giving them all the time they wanted to play football.

A player must have the mindset that he can do some good on the field and if that player is attacking minded he is just going to be confused at the defensive tactics and demoralised, never before have I found it hard to find one player in our team that really tried or looked up for it, they all looked very down and disheartened and that was before utd had a 3 goal lead.

Motivation is key against the top four because of the standard of their players you have to want it more to win, I always looked forward to these games because I used to love to see little ol Rovers have a go at them, I dread them at the moment

Even though this maybe the dawn of a new era. I noticed that nothing has come out from the new owners about saturdays pathetic attempt at trying to win or even compete a match. I suppose it is business as usual.

[gumboots]

Even though this maybe the dawn of a new era. I noticed that nothing has come out from the new owners about saturdays pathetic attempt at trying to win or even compete a match. I suppose it is business as usual.

Just because nothing's come out that doesn't mean they had nothing to say. No doubt they were spitting feathers

[philipl]

Even though this maybe the dawn of a new era. I noticed that nothing has come out from the new owners about saturdays pathetic attempt at trying to win or even compete a match. I suppose it is business as usual.

I think that is pretty unfair. The new owners have had plenty to say in the media with a refreshing if sometimes disconcerting openness of minds and hearts.

Nobody in their right minds would go in front of a microphone after Saturday's shaming. Sam did the right thing by appearing contrite and apologising and Paul Robinson did the right thing by opting out of Match of the Day.

We are all hurting so badly that a Venky's statement soothing things would have caused a mass howl about lack of ambition and a statement saying they were disappointed would have escallated into a war between fans saying Sam is out and those knocking Venky's for rocking the boat.

So silence was and is the best policy just now.

[Steve Moss]

I think that is pretty unfair. The new owners have had plenty to say in the media with a refreshing if sometimes disconcerting openness of minds and hearts.

Nobody in their right minds would go in front of a microphone after Saturday's shaming. Sam did the right thing by appearing contrite and apologising and Paul Robinson did the right thing by opting out of Match of the Day.

We are all hurting so badly that a Venky's statement soothing things would have caused a mass howl about lack of ambition and a statement saying they were disappointed would have escallated into a war between fans saying Sam is out and those knocking Venky's for rocking the boat.

So silence was and is the best policy just now.

Wisdom.

[broadsword]

So silence was and is the best policy just now.

People may laugh at what you say, but they'll believe what you do.

I would assume that that wasn't the kind of brand exposure Venky's were after. They didn't pay 45 mill to see their team get spanked, so expect changes if this happens on a regular basis.

[RibbleValleyRover]

The Times of India has an article talking about how other clubs are looking to expand into India. I guess it shows how clubs are taking seriously the booming Indian economy and the potential to make money there:

English, German, Spanish clubs scout for India partnerships

Looks like there is another club is moving on our 'turf' as well. Can you guess who it might be?

ManU is setting up coffee and merchandise shops in Pune, the very city that is home to Blackburn’s new owners.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I am now even more sceptical of our chances of promoting our club in India after reading that article.

NO CHANCE.

[Paul]

I am now even more sceptical of our chances of promoting our club in India after reading that article.

<

NO CHANCE.

Has there ever been a real suggestion this is / was the plan. My impression is the Venky's deal is intended to promote their brand in Europe and less so Rovers in India? Much of the talk about India and promotion has been little more than speculation by the hotel and car park builders amongst the fan base.

[broadsword]

I'm sure I read a quote that Mrs Desai's wanted to make us India's team.

There's been quotes from the Venky's camp about how kids in India are just getting into football, no?