[Archived] Some Thoughts On Recent Events

[daveoftherovers]

we will not have the answers to many of these questions until January at least.

So we can;t protest now, I'm quite happy with Samba's threats, I think thats a pretty powerful statement.

Agreed, and you'll just be playing into the anti Rovers media's hands, and allow them to ridicule our club for a little longer

[47er]

I think we've still got to see how things develop.

Reports are saying that Keen will be charged with bringing in 4 'exciting players' and that we have some decent wedge to throw at it. There is absolutely no point making a judgement on Keen until he has made his buys. It sounds like we'll be looking at players between 20-25 (good enough to go straight in the side + future resale.

Lets be honest 4 good players will make a hell of a lot of difference to our team. It should also be enough to assure the better players in the squad (Samba) that we are going in the right direction - Lets just hope he's from the Hughes school of purchases and not Ince's.

Big call for the lad, if he brings in dross then we are screwed. If he can bring in some gems then he deserves a crack

Best thing he can do initially is get Diouf mk1 and Chimbonda out the door on Jan 1st. If Samba is still wanting away, why not make Salgado captain for the next 6 months? Model professinal and will surely have the respect of all the dressing room.

Buying 4 good players won't be much use if we lose 4 good players though. And Venky spending could then be zilch!

Oh I forgot "We are no longer a selling club".

[daveoftherovers]

That is exactly it den, now I wasn't around in the 70s and it could be said that I was 'spoilt' by the last 20 years, however I always realised just how precarious our hold on the top table was, it was only through a succession of top managers and administrators post 2000 that kept us there.

If the club had slowly declined and slipped through the leagues we could accept it, however to see a strong position with a good mananger thrown away is too much to bear.

Gents, I totally see your point, I wasn't born until 69 so I didn't even see the lofty 1960's, it is our longest stint in the top league though isn't it? All I was saying was just give it a couple of months before you hand your cards in?

Keep the faith (Someone has too LOL)

[Roversider]

I think, with the older fans, they are simply feeling as though they have gone full circle. They've seen the good times in the 60's, the dreadful times at the bottom end of the third division, the excitements of the Waggy, Hird and Bailey era, the joys and feelings of desperation of the play offs, then the enormity of the JW era.

Now we feel as though it's all about to fall down and the worst part of that is that it's self destruction. So do the folk who have been through all that want to start over again? I don't think so. I think they feel as though they've done their bit and now it's for the other generations to take over.

Thanks for this post, as one of the 'older fans' I can see some of the relevance.

However, I am not old enough to remember the '50s, although that was when I first went to a game as a toddler. The '60s was a different era with good and decline. My real commited period started at the end of the decade and followed through home and away in the '70s and '80s.

I have been a season ticket holder for 35 years now and I've only missed a handful of home games and been to quite a few away games. So that is the context of my following comments.

Firstly, we aren't destroyed yet! My experience of most older fans who say "I'm not going because I hate the football, the owners, the money in the game etc." is that there is usually another reason. Physically it gets tougher to get to the games, TV is an easier option, costs get in the way. There is never a satisfactory reason for dumping your love, just that you love something else more.

History tells us that Rovers have gone up and down but that the club has always survived. For those unhappy with the world today they should have joined me and a small band of Rovers fans at places like Halifax (floodlight failure night) or seeing us hammered by Shrewsbury (not Man U). It also tells us that fans are always 100% positive (we're going to win the league) or 100% negative (we're doomed). Sorry, being an adult means we have to realise life is never perfect but sometimes it is better to base your decisions on facts not an expectation.

My club is ingrained deep in my heart, I do not intend to desert them at a period of uncertainty. If you want to give up then that is your choice, just be honest with yourself for what the reason is and be realistic to accept it may be other reasons as well as the things going on now. It is just too easy to use the current world as an excuse, sorry if that offends.

If you really care about our famous old club, now is not the time to turn your back.

Your team needs you!

[m1st]

I don't know if this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2010/dec/21/blackburn-rovers-venkys-jerome-anderson , which is in today's "Guardian", has been posted on other threads on the Board.

It makes one or two important, if obvious, points like, er: no British organization was interested in taking us off the Trust's hands; and Venky's assets may well be quite a bit less than we though before the take-over went through.

[Kelbo]

I think, with the older fans, they are simply feeling as though they have gone full circle. They've seen the good times in the 60's, the dreadful times at the bottom end of the third division, the excitements of the Waggy, Hird and Bailey era, the joys and feelings of desperation of the play offs, then the enormity of the JW era.

Now we feel as though it's all about to fall down and the worst part of that is that it's self destruction. So do the folk who have been through all that want to start over again? I don't think so. I think they feel as though they've done their bit and now it's for the other generations to take over.

God I feel old, my first match was I think in 1956, Doncaster Rovers at home, stood cold in the Blackburn end by the corner of the Nuttall Street stand and a guy lifted me up and sat me on his knee in the stand so I could watch the game, used to go to Burnley one week, Rovers the next but I soon realised I enjoyed it at Ewood more, more of a family feel about the club, its always been that way, except I dont feel that now, I feel as though everything has been ripped apart, the club as I have known it for 54 years has been destroyed. Gone are the wonderful pies sold in the Blackburn end, the days in the lower leagues when you could park virtually next to the ground without cost, you knew almost everyone around you as the gates were not much more than 5 or 6,000 but happy days and wouldnt have missed it for the world, to win the Premiership was a dream come true, to continue to punch above our weight in the premiership was so pleasing despite the fact that I dont particularly like watching route one football, but I am a realist, could Rovers really take on the best teams in the Premiership on the same level with the squad we have got,

even in Sparkys last year, it was evident the money had dried up, interest rates had fallen and even with my miserly savings, the cost was a few thousand pounds in lost interest, so I fully understand that the money put in trust for Rovers would never be enough to sustain us as a top club or indeed make any decent signings and in the end, the decision to sell the club was no surprise, the only surprise being, we seem to have been bought by what I can describe as rank amatuers, I cant see anyway forward for our club with these people in charge and when they decide to sell, it will be too late, there will be little left of the once proud club I knew, so sad.

[Yorick]

My club is ingrained deep in my heart, I do not intend to desert them at a period of uncertainty. If you want to give up then that is your choice, just be honest with yourself for what the reason is and be realistic to accept it may be other reasons as well as the things going on now. It is just too easy to use the current world as an excuse, sorry if that offends.

Good post Roversider but you need to take a step back and re-evaluate the situation. The club has moved away from us. Foreign owners and foreign players with little or no allegiance to this area just to the Premier League money that it brings. Do you expect any of these players axcept possibly Dunn and Jones to stick around when the pack in? Even the sterling Williams and Finn are not locals and will probably retire away from this area.

Ewood park itself and blue and white halves are now the only link with this area.

[Roversider]

Good post Roversider but you need to take a step back and re-evaluate the situation. The club has moved away from us. Foreign owners and foreign players with little or no allegiance to this area just to the Premier League money that it brings. Do you expect any of these players axcept possibly Dunn and Jones to stick around when the pack in? Even the sterling Williams and Finn are not locals and will probably retire away from this area.

Ewood park itself and blue and white halves are now the only link with this area.

Owners come and go. Players come and go (Dunn is no Douglas or Clayton). Managers come and go (would Sam have stayed if he had another opportunity).

The Premiership is about hard cash, if we are relegated and the club is 'dumped' by the current owners then there will be something at a lower level where players stay loyal (they can't get other opportunities to earn a fortune) like at Stanley. I would still be there then.

The fans, the physical location of the club and the history are what matters.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

I'd class all that as hopeful optimism and nothing more. Goodnes only knows what you are basing it on.

What else can we do?

[Mattyblue]

Good post Roversider but you need to take a step back and re-evaluate the situation. The club has moved away from us. Foreign owners and foreign players with little or no allegiance to this area just to the Premier League money that it brings. Do you expect any of these players axcept possibly Dunn and Jones to stick around when the pack in? Even the sterling Williams and Finn are not locals and will probably retire away from this area.

Ewood park itself and blue and white halves are now the only link with this area.

Finn's local isn't he? (getting a bit League of Gentlemen )

[Roversider]

Finn's local isn't he? (getting a bit League of Gentlemen )

Perhaps we should say this local club is for local people!

[den]

If you really care about our famous old club, now is not the time to turn your back.

Your team needs you!

I haven't yet Roversider! I have been wondering whether I would want to start all over again though - if the worst came to the worst.

These guys need to get their act together PDQ though.

[philipl]

Did anyone hear Howard Walker, Jacks son on Radio Lancs yesterday?

I am told he said his dad would be spinning in his grave at what had happened at the club, that the takeover was not supposed to be like this and Venkys representatives, during takeover discussions, made various promises which have been broken, he did not elaborate.

The person of the Walker family who looks after the Purse strings is Jacks daughter Carol (is she Matthewmans wife?)

as Jack didnt trust the sons with money, they would spend it unwisely, as yet I havent heard any comments from her personally, but from Howards interview, the Walker family are not happy with the situation to say the least.

The part of the Radio interview about Venky's promises fits with what I have heard.

And it tallies with what I was hearing about assurances given by Venky's during the acquisition negotiations. That is why I was so strenuously rubbishing all nicko's posts. He clearly has the inside from Kentaro and so much of what he said has now come true. What I was writing denying Anderson involvement etc has proven inaccurate with what has happened in reality.

I had some sort of inside(s) from the club's side and I was posting what I could have the Trust/Rothschilds'/Rovers' understandings based on what Venky's were telling them.

To give a flavour, here is a straight quote taken from our news portal announcing the purchase by Venky's:

In taking on the challenge of ownership of the Rovers and continuing Jack's legacy, Venky's have become the first Indian company to own a Premier League football club. Anuradha J Desai, chairperson of Venky's, issued this carefully worded statement following the purchase:

"We are delighted, proud and humbled to be associated with Blackburn Rovers, a team with whom we share many values and ambitions. Going forward we plan to focus on leveraging the global influence in establishing Blackburn Rovers as a truly global brand. We will absolutely respect the Jack Walker legacy and will be actively supporting the organisation to ensure that Blackburn Rovers remains one of the best-run clubs within the Premier League. We are particularly pleased that the deal has the full support of the Walker Trust, the chairman and the management team, who will of course remain in place with our full support.

As for the Trust putting nothing into Rovers- it is not the time to say that is not true and rehash that old canard but it is worth noting that the Trust put £5m into the club in non-interest bearing debt in the last two years of their ownership when everyone is saying they did nothing. There is nothing in the sale documentation that indicates the Trust got that money back so that is another Trust donation. The total amount of cash put into the club since Jack Walker's death is in the region of £60m quite apart from converting £100m of repayable loans into shares which they have just sold to Venky's for about £20m.

[Roost]

I don't know if this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2010/dec/21/blackburn-rovers-venkys-jerome-anderson , which is in today's "Guardian", has been posted on other threads on the Board.

It makes one or two important, if obvious, points like, er: no British organization was interested in taking us off the Trust's hands; and Venky's assets may well be quite a bit less than we though before the take-over went through.

Grim reading

[Lytham]

I wish nicko would follow through his threat yesterday to quit posting for a while.

His stance on this takeover is nauseating in the extreme.

[Bobby G]

Too late for the Walkers to feel tricked or whatever. I cant believe people can be misled to that kind of level, especially after going through at least 10 potential buyers in the last 3 years, and rubbishing most of them.

[m1st]

Thanks for this post, as one of the 'older fans' I can see some of the relevance.

However, I am not old enough to remember the '50s, although that was when I first went to a game as a toddler. The '60s was a different era with good and decline. My real commited period started at the end of the decade and followed through home and away in the '70s and '80s.

I have been a season ticket holder for 35 years now and I've only missed a handful of home games and been to quite a few away games. So that is the context of my following comments.

Firstly, we aren't destroyed yet! My experience of most older fans who say "I'm not going because I hate the football, the owners, the money in the game etc." is that there is usually another reason. Physically it gets tougher to get to the games, TV is an easier option, costs get in the way. There is never a satisfactory reason for dumping your love, just that you love something else more.

History tells us that Rovers have gone up and down but that the club has always survived. For those unhappy with the world today they should have joined me and a small band of Rovers fans at places like Halifax (floodlight failure night) or seeing us hammered by Shrewsbury (not Man U). It also tells us that fans are always 100% positive (we're going to win the league) or 100% negative (we're doomed). Sorry, being an adult means we have to realise life is never perfect but sometimes it is better to base your decisions on facts not an expectation.

My club is ingrained deep in my heart, I do not intend to desert them at a period of uncertainty. If you want to give up then that is your choice, just be honest with yourself for what the reason is and be realistic to accept it may be other reasons as well as the things going on now. It is just too easy to use the current world as an excuse, sorry if that offends.

If you really care about our famous old club, now is not the time to turn your back.

Your team needs you!

Thanks, Roversider, for this wonderful post; it's spot-on.

I must be a year or two older than you - I really became a regular follower when we got back into Divison 1 in 1958; but, like you, I've had some real lows following This Great Club Of Ours.

Again like you, I guess that, over the years, I must have seen the team on over 100 grounds, many of which I'd never want to see again [quite a few have been demolished!] in a League fixture. The absolute nadir for me was an abject 4-0 defeat at Colchester in a League Cup replay in 1977-78. Despite that and the fact that I've only been a "local" person for about 9 years [i'm the son of Blackburners who lived in Blackpool till I was 25, then, after about 9 years at "home", have lived in Greater Manchester since 1981], I'm still a season-ticket holder.

As I put on another post recently, for me "success" for a club of our size these days is defined as retaining Premier League status. As I get older and [slightly] more infirm, it's only the logistics of getting to and from Blackburn for the match, specially in weather like this, that are likely to deter me.

Like you say, "My club is ingrained deep in my heart".

[Guest Walshy]

just found jerome andersons email address

[email protected]

[imy9]

Removed as unprovoked personal attack

Why not others who think that Armageddon is arriving? Or is it merely posters whose opinions differ from yours? I find them quite nauseating, it's a message board and someone giving us up to date information is far more worth while than listening to people wailing 'the end is near'

[thenonda]

This really is a worrying time but...

I was going to try and say something to try and calm things down like "lets see what happens" however the following is more interesting and what people seem to want to hear "We are all DOOMED! Jerome Anderson is a witch. Blue Square League here we come"

I think we all need to get a grip until there is some real news!!!

[Pete1981]

The part of the Radio interview about Venky's promises fits with what I have heard.

And it tallies with what I was hearing about assurances given by Venky's during the acquisition negotiations. That is why I was so strenuously rubbishing all nicko's posts. He clearly has the inside from Kentaro and so much of what he said has now come true. What I was writing denying Anderson involvement etc has proven inaccurate with what has happened in reality.

I had some sort of inside(s) from the club's side and I was posting what I could have the Trust/Rothschilds'/Rovers' understandings based on what Venky's were telling them.

To give a flavour, here is a straight quote taken from our news portal announcing the purchase by Venky's:

In taking on the challenge of ownership of the Rovers and continuing Jack's legacy, Venky's have become the first Indian company to own a Premier League football club. Anuradha J Desai, chairperson of Venky's, issued this carefully worded statement following the purchase:

"We are delighted, proud and humbled to be associated with Blackburn Rovers, a team with whom we share many values and ambitions. Going forward we plan to focus on leveraging the global influence in establishing Blackburn Rovers as a truly global brand. We will absolutely respect the Jack Walker legacy and will be actively supporting the organisation to ensure that Blackburn Rovers remains one of the best-run clubs within the Premier League. We are particularly pleased that the deal has the full support of the Walker Trust, the chairman and the management team, who will of course remain in place with our full support.

As for the Trust putting nothing into Rovers- it is not the time to say that is not true and rehash that old canard but it is worth noting that the Trust put £5m into the club in non-interest bearing debt in the last two years of their ownership when everyone is saying they did nothing. There is nothing in the sale documentation that indicates the Trust got that money back so that is another Trust donation. The total amount of cash put into the club since Jack Walker's death is in the region of £60m quite apart from converting £100m of repayable loans into shares which they have just sold to Venky's for about £20m.

Do you know if this is avaliable to listen to on radio lancs website and also if these promises has been broken is there anything the trust can do about it

[47er]

Do you know if this is avaliable to listen to on radio lancs website and also if these promises has been broken is there anything the trust can do about it

You are assuming they care of course. I suppose they could offer Venkys their 54M back and take control of the club again. After all they made 43M from selling 51% of Flybe.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

This really is a worrying time but...

I was going to try and say something to try and calm things down like "lets see what happens" however the following is more interesting and what people seem to want to hear "We are all DOOMED! Jerome Anderson is a witch. Blue Square League here we come"

I think we all need to get a grip until there is some real news!!!

Gotta agree.

Main problem is we all care passionately about the club - and I don't think any of us would have handled things in the way that our new owners have.

However :-

1. We have only played one match - which we drew (West Ham or not - we often get beat by the lower teams)

2. Nobody liked Sam's style of play

3. We still don't know what their plans are.

4. Kean is held in high regard - personally I would have gone for a high profile manager = but can't disagree with their apparent plan to go down the Arsenal line.

5. Venky's didn't spend all the money to buy the club to see us get relegated - and effectively lose their money.

As you say - we need to wait for actions - and not words manipulated by the media taking advantage of owners with little experience (they are possibly makers of their own downfall in this respect).

[micktheblue]

Read all the comments with interest and yes of course everyone is right. Football has changed. Some for the better lots for the worse. I used to be lifted over the wall on the encloser side and sit on a bench there. At half time we used to follow the players down the tunnel!!

Times do change and we have to accept change. I feel the cold now I didn't then. I have to say I will never stop being a rovers supporter you can't can you? I don't mind when they play and lose, provided we put in an effort thats fine. At least that way as I said in my previous post the football is decided on the field and not in some boardroom on the other side of the world.

I will still be here next season and the one after that etc. Still moaning and grumbling, but thats what being a Rovers fan is all about and will ever be about........ There was only ever one Jack Walker!!!!!

[rovers_rob]

This really is a worrying time but...

I was going to try and say something to try and calm things down like "lets see what happens" however the following is more interesting and what people seem to want to hear "We are all DOOMED! Jerome Anderson is a witch. Blue Square League here we come"

I think we all need to get a grip until there is some real news!!!

Amen to that.