[Archived] Some Thoughts On Recent Events

[K-Hod]

Amen to that.

Argh, meant to quote 'Thenonda'!

[broadsword]

Whatever happens to the club, the Sun will still rise tomorrow.

You can drive yourself half crazy wondering what will actually happen. I can't be bothered getting in a froth about it.

If the worst does happen, I suggest we launch a pre-emptive ICBM strike against Pune, hit them where they live. That'll teach 'em not to dick around with our club.

[Spansterkid]

...Venky's assets may well be quite a bit less than we though before the take-over went through.

Some of us did try to point this out well before the takeover went through. Not that we could've done much to prevent it!

[philipl]

You are assuming they care of course. I suppose they could offer Venkys their 54M back and take control of the club again. After all they made 43M from selling 51% of Flybe.

That bit about Flybe is wrong.

"there will be no windfall for the airline's biggest shareholder, Rosedale Aviation Holdings, controlled by the family trust of the late British industrialist Jack Walker."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/article-1334563/Jitters-fail-ground-flybe-float.html#ixzz18qVj2dkd

The float simply raised new capital to fund Flybe's expansion.

[John]

I don't know if this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2010/dec/21/blackburn-rovers-venkys-jerome-anderson , which is in today's "Guardian", has been posted on other threads on the Board.

It makes one or two important, if obvious, points like, er: no British organization was interested in taking us off the Trust's hands; and Venky's assets may well be quite a bit less than we though before the take-over went through.

Didn't like reading that article.

[gumboots]

Some of us did try to point this out well before the takeover went through. Not that we could've done much to prevent it!

I think you've hit the nail on the head. There was nothing we could do to prevent the takeover; there is little that we can do now to protest about the way things are being done and nothing that will not impact in a negative way on the team, who seem to be reacting like babies to what is happeneing. I don't like things that are currently going on at my place of work, but I get paid to do a job and I haven't so far thrown my toys out of th pram,despite working longer hours in an environment that is not really conducive to it and knowing that next year it's going to be hell on earth in our nice shiny new building with no storage, no proper classrooms, "soundproof" walls separating us from other classes, very few computers, a handful of printers to serve the needs of 1500 people - the list of complaints is endless. This is a time when we don't need to hear the players moaning - we need to see them trying their best for the club that currently pays their wages. If they want a move their agents can put the word out without anyone whingeing to the press and getting us even more bad publicity. There's enough about already and certain elements of opposition fans, the press and a whole range of others are loving what's happening, just as others are very sympathetic and wish us well.

[Boz]

Anybody care to post anything coming out of the agm at lunchtime?

[Greedy_Crawford]

Just had time to gather my thoughts on the circus that has been the last few weeks and a few points come to mind:

1 - Venky's have bought our club for marketing reasons. It was cheap, had willing sellers, and provides lots of worldwide media coverage as we are in the "most exciting" league in the world. Clearly the events of the last few weeks show they know little about the game, but this is a development akin to what has been happening in North American sports for decades - business buys sports franchise to further own brands etc. Feels awful as a fan, but I understand the business angle.

2 - They decided they wanted a change of manager (which is well within their rights), but don't have a replacement lined up. They then want to hand a temporary manager a £5-10m budget for the January transfer window, who might not be in the job in 3 months, and whose signings might be discarded by a new manager. That sounds like money wasted, oh and your putting your investment in Rovers at risk of potential relegation. Seems to back up the old cliche that business people leave their brains behind when the get involved in football. This is the madness I am finding all too hard to believe, given the number of "advisors" they are using.

3 - We as fans just need to get behind the team and whoever is the manager. Its our club at the end of the day. There is no "brand" without the fans. I for one will continue to support BRFC through thick and thin (I started watching during the late 70's and remember what "fun" it was pre Jack), just hope the current owners have a cunning plan that the rest of us haven't worked out yet.

[92er]

Gents, I totally see your point, I wasn't born until 69 so I didn't even see the lofty 1960's, it is our longest stint in the top league though isn't it?

No.

Our longest stint will have been from the formation of the football league-approx 1888-to around 1936 when we were first relegated.

It's our longest stint since then.

[Fife Rover]

Perhaps we should say this local club is for local people!

Excellent suggestion; that should stil see us able to finish in the top half of the Blackburn Combination Div 2 occasionally.

[gumboots]

Excellent suggestion; that should stil see us able to finish in the top half of the Blackburn Combination Div 2 occasionally.

The way some are carrying on that will still be viewed as overachieving

[Kelbo]

Without any accusations, I would believe that the Premier League Executive will be looking very closely at what has happened here, even for the most rational person, something is clearly not right, personally, I can see what is going on, I will leave others to judge, but this has left a nasty taste in my mouth and I am sure it has with others too. I hope that Sam does find out who stabbed him in the back, whoever it is, he has been drinking out of a poisened chalice and his colleagues and any prospective future employers will have marked his ticket, he will be almost unemployable.

[Fife Rover]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. There was nothing we could do to prevent the takeover; there is little that we can do now to protest about the way things are being done and nothing that will not impact in a negative way on the team, who seem to be reacting like babies to what is happeneing. I don't like things that are currently going on at my place of work, but I get paid to do a job and I haven't so far thrown my toys out of th pram,despite working longer hours in an environment that is not really conducive to it and knowing that next year it's going to be hell on earth in our nice shiny new building with no storage, no proper classrooms, "soundproof" walls separating us from other classes, very few computers, a handful of printers to serve the needs of 1500 people - the list of complaints is endless. This is a time when we don't need to hear the players moaning - we need to see them trying their best for the club that currently pays their wages. If they want a move their agents can put the word out without anyone whingeing to the press and getting us even more bad publicity. There's enough about already and certain elements of opposition fans, the press and a whole range of others are loving what's happening, just as others are very sympathetic and wish us well.

Yes Gumboots, I was quite impressed with that as well. It shows that football fans as a body are (in the main) a decent set of ordinary people, and although we are rivals twice per season, we can still sympathise with each other when the occasion demands.

We have already had nice sympathetic words from Zulu (Bolton), Tom (Villa), and the guy from West Ham whose name just escapes me at the moment Thanks to you all, it is very much appreciated and heart warming.

[Boz]

Anybody care to post anything coming out of the agm at lunchtime?

Ok, I will then.

It was the AGM for The Blackburn Rovers Football and Athletic PLC this morning.

As has been the case in recent years the major shareholder apologised and it was just a typical formal AGM re-appointing various officers/bodies.

At the end of which JW, typically out of good grace to the various minority shareholders answers topical questions.

There is then an assortment of various points and questions, which John honestly (as much as he can) duly responds.

Nothing gets announced to the AGM concerning the appointment as manager for the remaining season.

Then, hours later BRFC make an announcement.

Two questions;

1. does the Chairman thinks so little of the minority shareholders than not to share this information at the AGM minutes earlier?

Or, 2. Did the Chairman have no idea about this decision?

Comments. I would be amazed if one was true as he has always been very generous, open and approachable.

If two is correct, then once again, it is very worrying times at Ewood Park.

[Olveres]

Nice one Venkys, after all your differing statements you show one truth, Kean is the manager, was always going to be the manager and that was that. Did Kentaro point out that you couldn't even dare look for experience because experience would have just laughed in your faces at your proposals. What did Allardyce say? Sorry guys but it's Christmas Day next, April's Fools Day is months off?

If there is one thing you have shown early on, we the fans are of no relevance to your plans, but to be fair, long term, neither is our club.

[vyeo]

Mods - Apologies, I had posted this in the manager tread by accident. This was meant for this thread. Thanks!

I have refrained from commenting until we appointed someone permanent because I was still hoping beyond hope that we'd get a Martin o'Neill or someone with the right credentials. Now that we have not, I am as lost as many on here. Something just does not add up. There are way too many inconsistencies, so I'll try to look at this rationally. There are two main schools of thought - 1.) conspiracy theories about a Kentaro coup, and 2.) idealistic dreams about Wanky's big plans. I think the truth is probably in-between. Since we have no evidence of conversations between the Wanky princelings and their Kentaro privy councillors, we have to go by logic. I don't have a conclusion yet, but will share my train of thought to see what everyone thinks.

Analysis

The start point has to be that Wankys did not spend circa 50m pounds on something to destroy it. We know with some certainty that Wanky's strategic objective in buying our club is to profile their company worldwide. So there is simply no sense in trying to beat it down. So why sack big Sam at such a crucial time? At Wanky's decision-making level, the likeliest answer has to be that they believe doing so will improve the club. Some may say they wanted someone cheaper to run things to minimise costs. But this cannot be the case because Sam and McDonald would have had to be paid their severences anyway.

So assuming that the decision was taken with the club's best interests at heart, then the next question is who advised them to make the decision? Did they take it themselves? The only people we know who sit on their privy council is Kentaro, with Jerome Anderson as the privy council president. Since he has their ears, Anderson appears to be the likeliest coup plotter. But there is some evidence this is not the case - the talk that Kentaro advised Raos to keep Sam after the trashing at Old Trafford. Clearly, the thought to do away with Sam was already there in the owners heads. What we can say now is that Anderson was probably aware of the coup plan, though it is inconclusive that he was the chief instigator. But Kentaro are probably the only winners in this episode. At the very least, they have definitely advanced their interests by installing Kean as the replacement. (My guess is they may take a cut off Kean for negotiating the contract and also a cut off the club for doing the deal. But isn't that a conflict of interest?)

So next point to consider. Steve Kean - Puppet or coup plotter? Was Sam referring to Kean when he said he was stabbed in the back? Kean strikes us as the ambitious sort, but it seems far-fetched to say that he had enough access to influence the owners when even Sam did not have much contact with them. Did he do this through Kentaro? Perhaps. But it could also be that Kean was proposed by Kentaro (because he's their client and at the club already) to replace Sam after the decision was taken to do away with Sam. On balance, its unlikely that hes a coup plotter though he may have been in cahoots because he was in the right place at the right time.

At this point, Kentaro is clearly the strongest common denominator in this affair. So if they had input on the coup, and input on the manager, what are their objectives? Conspiracy theorists think it is to unload all their rubbish players on us. But again, where's the logic? A man like Anderson cannot be thinking with such short-termism. If Kentaro's plan is to use us as a revolving door/showcase for their players, the players must perform and the club must do well. It simply cannot work otherwise because there'll be no one to pick up the players at a profit.

Overall, things will only become clearer when we see who comes in during the January window. If it is thrash like Boyd and Geovanni (ok, maybe a bit harsh to use them as examples), then it is a good indication that Kenatro is indeed using us as a dumping ground. Then at that point, it will be apparent that Wankys have committed a huge tactical error by taking their advice. But until then, there is still a chance that we'll bring in some quality. (Although I am not a financial analyst, I venture that there is a more than good chance that our owners' wealth goes beyond what is listed in the company accounts. The publicly available accounts provide a snapshot of the company's holdings, but not the owners' personal assets. So the optimist in me is hoping that more than 5m would be released - something the chairperson had said publicly - and this could see us bring in some good players. Fingers crossed)

Conclusion

Whatever the case, this episode has raised many other questions. What role did John Williams play in this mess? It's quite clear that he was the unwilling army chief who had to do what the queen ordered. But give him credit for sticking around. Some may say he should have walked (and I would not have blamed him for sticking to his principles), but I admire him for staying to steady the ship. His staying also offers us a silver lining - surely after a full day of meeting the day after Sam's sacking, Williams must have been told something that he agreed with in that meeting for him to stay. There is also uncertainty over our players. What about Nelsen and Samba? Chief-of-staffs who are standing up to the administration? Or mercenaries trying to get a quick exit? These questions and more remain to be answered but what is clear is that change is well and truly afoot and unfortunately, regime changes are almost never smooth.

As fans on a messageboard, were perfectly entitled to discuss things. But I think with the degree of uncertainty, fear mongering (including passing information off as facts even when they are not) is simply not helpful. The best option now is probably to observe developments, and if there are more indications that our fears are playing out, then take action. Sit-in at Ewood or take over an intersection outside it but now, perhaps more than ever, the players need our support on match day.

[Olveres]

It would now seem they have taken to removing the official forum of any dissenters. I'm on a temporary ban but I'll endeavour to make it permanent in due course lmfao.

[Kelbo]

Doesnt surprise me at all, we will all have to fall into line, the hell we will, I am more determined to fight this now, but there are proper ways without giving the mods team any probs on here, they have enough on.

Wonder if we didnt buy programmes, didnt buy a pie or food and a pint for a few games, dont buy merchandise, especially if contains Venkys name or logo, if we all did it, it would hit them in the pocket and we could still support the team!!

It would now seem they have taken to removing the official forum of any dissenters. I'm on a temporary ban but I'll endeavour to make it permanent in due course lmfao.

Yep, sound a bit like the Mafia this lot dont they?

[Jimmy612]

You are assuming they care of course. I suppose they could offer Venkys their 54M back and take control of the club again. After all they made 43M from selling 51% of Flybe.

I've a feeling that if they want they'll get it for a tiny tiny percentage of that within two years. Probably dealing with the receivers unfortunately. Kentaro will have sucked the incredibly gullible Venkeys dry by then. All the big wages will have gone and the club will of course be one and possibly two divisions lower. The facilities will still be theirs anyway. All the whingers who are currently complaining that the Walker trust should have put ever more money in will by then be ready to worship the very ground they walk on.

Going down the leagues will bring a touch of reallity to the supporters under 35 who only really know the Walker Years.

You heard it here first.

[Olveres]

To say this lot know so much about chickens how come they're making a pigs ear of everything?

[Mc Love]

3 - We as fans just need to get behind the team and whoever is the manager. Its our club at the end of the day. There is no "brand" without the fans. I for one will continue to support BRFC through thick and thin (I started watching during the late 70's and remember what "fun" it was pre Jack), just hope the current owners have a cunning plan that the rest of us haven't worked out yet.

Thats the point exactly - if no fans go to the matches - their "brand" will be hit, making them rethink their stupid idea's and listen to JW and TF on how to run a football club!

JW - for President/King

[Steve Moss]

The start point has to be that Wankys did not spend circa 50m pounds on something to destroy it.

Wealth and wisdom do not always go hand in hand.

Since he has their ears, Anderson appears to be the likeliest coup plotter. But there is some evidence this is not the case - the talk that Kentaro advised Raos to keep Sam after the trashing at Old Trafford. Clearly, the thought to do away with Sam was already there in the owners heads.

I think Nicko has been very firm that Kentaro wanted Sam to stay until the end of the year. Mrs. Desai's statements reinforces Nicko's reporting and it appears that the decision to axe him came from the owners. And based on the various news articles, they did it as their pride was hurt following the 7-1 drubbing and the humliation of it occuring at their Pune VIP party. So it wasn't so much a planned coup as opposed to poor impulse control, if the reporting adds up.

Keep in mind the owners come from a very different culture. While many Western business men would accept the occassional humiliation in order to advance the corporate cause on whole, the new owners seem to have an excess of pride which cause them to make apparently poor business and/or PR judgments. Reports of their alleged censoring Radio Rovers and now the official message board only reinforce this perception.

Venkys admit they know little or nothing about football, other than one brother being a fan. Despite this, they are attempting to run and football club "hands on". Though Philip may disagree (or not), I think, at least short term, we'd better hope that Kentaro has some influence on the owners as they appear to be the safest harbor of any effectiveness now that JW is apparently sidelined. We can worry about excessive commissions and being a "show case" in the long term. I just want to end the season in the PL, at this point.

[Blue blood]

Better still they could let JW go back to the good job he was doing!

I've yet to see an angle or theory which reflects well on the club. If being run be agents is the best we can hope for we're in a very poor state.

[chaddyrovers]

Article about jerome anderson and rovers from the Guardian. don't know whether it has been posted before

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2010/dec/21/blackburn-rovers-venkys-jerome-anderson?INTCMP=SRCH

[Wild Irish Rover]

It would now seem they have taken to removing the official forum of any dissenters. I'm on a temporary ban but I'll endeavour to make it permanent in due course lmfao.

No harm in the press picking up on this little 'fact' eh, Nicko?? <_<

Two smokin barrels... I say