[Archived] Blackburn Rovers v Stoke City

[philipl]

Hughesy, I think you will find that the people who are critical of what has happened are PASSIONATE SUPPORTERS.

[FourLaneBlue]

Thats what you call giving a bloke a chance. Kean has had TWO matches, probably about a weeks worth of training sessions with the players and is missing SEVEN first 11 players but people are asking for his head already... come on guys at least give him 3 games...FFS.

So bloody what?

This is the Premier League. We don't have time to be "giving a bloke a chance". We should not be appointing managers without any managerial experience. End of story. Why wait and see? Why not just get someone who has been there and done it?

Time to get an actual manager in.

[Plastic Head]

Shouting for "Venkys out" - they've only been here a month, give them a chance for heavens sake.

In that time they have turned us from mid table to relegation certainties. What ever have they in store for the next few weeks??

Claiming "We want our Rovers back" - what, the one that had no money and could only hope for survival by boring us to death in the process? No, thank you

Yes please

All this wailing and weeping seems premature to me - let's see what happens in the transfer window and during January in terms of results before we all start jumping to conclusions

My only concern is that Kean does not try to change things too quickly and is not able to attract the creative midfielder we so obviously need or the striker to bag us 20 goals a season. I saw hope today in the second half that we may even become a footballing side again - let's hope it is not too quick a change and that he is sufficiently pragmatic to "take it one step at a time"

STAND UP & SUPPORT YOUR TEAM!!

Dont get on the players backs, or the new managers, or the new owners. Give them all time. End of January is the time if your still as unhappy. Support your team through thick & thin.

I don't feel they are my team anymore.

We have replaced a top premier league manager with a no-mark Jock.

How can anyone be happy with things??

[Balwer]

They've committed to our being a spending club again

They've said an awful lot of other things they didn't follow through on either. I believe the expression is 'don't count your chickens...'

[Mattyblue]

A load of nonsense Drummer Boy.

I am watching twenty years of stability being thrown down the toilet in a matter of weeks, I sang 'there's only one Jack Walker' loud and proud.

The colour of their skin doesn't come into it, their utter arrogance of marching into a club and business environment of which they know little and causing havoc certainly does.

Sam Allardyce's Rovers was a top 10 side, his motivational and management skills ensured that, without Allardyce this squad is heading for relegation.

ps the tell tale statement of someone who has well and truly lost a football argument is to come out with 'it's only a game', 'it's not a war' platitudes.

[imy9]

Tony, my original statement:

"Thats what you call giving a bloke a chance. Kean has had TWO matches, probably about a weeks worth of training sessions with the players and is missing SEVEN first 11 players but people are asking for his head already... come on guys at least give him 3 games...FFS.

That was dire, rubbish, poor (add in any other adjectives that you wish to use), however the mass over reaction is ridiculous, two weeks ago it was Anti Sam, now he is seen as a Messiah and the chosen one who would have guided us through the realms of the premier league... the two worst players on the pitch today? Kalinic and Givet, combined cost of over £10 million- spent by... The Messiah.

We need an overhaul and as I have consistently said, the date to jusge the owners and the manager will be February 1st, after the window has closed and Kean has had a fair crack at the whip."

At which you point you said my head was in the sand. Highlighted a few bits which would suggest a balanced point of view, as opposed to:

"It's not too late to admit you're were wrong, but if you keep on trying to defend the indefensible you'll start to make yourself look very silly indeed."

It has been TWO games. Is that long enough?

To answer your questions:

1."Was Sam's football worse than under Ince? Was it worse than the last days of Hodgson? Was it worse than under Kidd? Sams football is a lot worse than under all the names that you mention. (Maybe we should have a poll to confirm)

2. "Last season we were 13th in the league in terms of away record. Not great but acceptable given the circumstances. Same position this season too. That's not really diabolical." Under Sam we have had our WORST goal difference EVER in the PL, TWICE. This season we are well on our way to that again. 7-1 was our WORST defeat in PL HISTORY, smashed records did the Messiah, that is why its diabolical- facts for you.

3. Givet - arguably a success.- Really? He cost nearly £4 million pounds, aged 28, how much do you think you could sell him for? He has been one of the worst players for Rovers and the biggest let down, for the money he is a flop.

4. Kalinic - looked promising but would definitely class as a flop. But £6 million hardly guarantees you a good PL striker. I bet for every 6 million (or less) striker which has been a success in this league, I can name you far more that have been flops. So... a flop? Took you a while to get there. The irony that I talk "cack" is obviously lost on you

5. Chimbonda - only a bit over a million, has done poorly but again £1.5 million isn't much to spend on a full back is it? Umm Yes it is! He cost £1.5 million which is the THIRD biggest sum that Sam spent and he played him at LEFT back.

6.So yeah, he had 3 signings over a million. EHD cost over £1 million too and for the large part has been a flop.

7. £1 million is absolutely no money in the Premier League. Do you actually follow Blackburn Rovers FC? If you did then you would know that £1 million is a LOT of money for us and we could not afford to throw it away.

Sam signed THREE right backs, one to play at LEFT back, when everyone could see that we were short in central midfield. He also signed a £6 million pound striker who cannot play up front by himself... to play up front by himself. So what are we left with? A lot of over paid, over the hill football players, a squad that is massively unbalanced and a crippling wage bill, thank god we have kids who can actually play a bit.

Finally we all have opinions on here, just because mine differs from yours does not mean that I am wrong or you are right.

[tony gale's mic]

Shouting for "Venkys out" - they've only been here a month, give them a chance for heavens sake. They've committed to our being a spending club again for the first time in over 5 years and made a significant investment in buying the club. What's more they have a clear vision for taking the club to a bigger stage - something we desperately need if we are to survive at this level.

Really? A clear vision? Sacking a successful manager and replacing him with a novice? Issuing conflicting statements about our transfer budget? Wanting to challenge the top 5 which will arguably take well over £100 million, but talking of "leasing" players and a transfer budget of £5 million when they first arrived?

Sounds clear as mud to me.

Look how much damage they've done already. They might be our owners but they freely admit to never having watched football in their lives but are taking footballing decisions. They even went against Kentaro's advice on sacking Sam!

Calling for the return of Sam - not gonna happen, get used to it and get behind the new man and the team. The whys and wherefores have been debated but aren't going to change so lets get used to it

True, calling for the return of Sam is pointless. It's not going to happen, but fans should never have to put up with their club being driven into decline which is a distinct possibility with this lot.

Singing "Theres only one Jack Walker" as some form of protest - there is only one JW but unfortunately that is now part of our history and has been for some years as has his investment in the club - look forward not back

I don't live around Blackburn so didn't go today but I do go a good few times a season and have heard that song many a time. It might have been done a bit in protest today but it would be sung at Ewood at some point regardless.

Claiming "We want our Rovers back" - what, the one that had no money and could only hope for survival by boring us to death in the process? No, thank you

No, the Rovers that held their own in the Premier League. The Rovers which made Ewood into a fortress. The Rovers that regularly punched above their weight thanks to hard work and sensible decisions behind the scenes. Rovers 98/99 had plenty of money to spend, that's not everything.

All this wailing and weeping seems premature to me - let's see what happens in the transfer window and during January in terms of results before we all start jumping to conclusions

January fixtures:

Sunderland (A)

Liverpool (H)

Chelsea (A)

West Brom (H)

(with Spurs (H) on the 2nd February)

Which of those fixtures do you see us winning? New signings take time to bed and we're after three signings - they may well make our team better but I don't think any of them are going to change the team overnight. West Brom is the most winnable but they'll provide a tougher examination than the two teams we've just faced, and West Ham could have easily beaten us last weekend.

My only concern is that Kean does not try to change things too quickly and is not able to attract the creative midfielder we so obviously need or the striker to bag us 20 goals a season. I saw hope today in the second half that we may even become a footballing side again - let's hope it is not too quick a change and that he is sufficiently pragmatic to "take it one step at a time"

You saw hope we may become a footballing side again? Was that before the Stoke first goal or before Stoke's second goal? Or was it in the parts where Robbo had to make a wonder save, or we aimlessly hit balls forward (at least under Sam we looked like scoring with them)

Also, some of the hatred on screwed up faces on the BBE today made me wonder if the reaction would be the same if Venkys had white faces. It can't simply be footballing matters alone that causes such a violent response as we've only had two games and nobody can surely jump to conclusions on that basis - maybe after 12 matches but not 2.

Rubbish. I'm sure SOME of the faces weren't helped by that, because in a crowd of people there will always, by law of averages, be some bigots. But the feeling towards Venky's is in no way driven by that. It's not just the matches, it's what they've done in between.

Finally, did anybody die as a result of today's game? Were nations cast into war? Was there widespread pestilence? No - thought not. It is a game of football not a matter of life and death and I worry that some of us attach so much significance to it that we express some pretty nasty sentiments and extreme feelings that are way out of proportion.

Merry Christmas everybody - health and prosperity to all, both of which are of much greater significance than getting beat 2-0 by Stoke City

Would anyone die if we got relegated? If we went out of existence I guess a few people would lose their jobs, but hardly anything of significance when you consider all the famines in Africa and the aftermath of the earthquake in Haiti!

This is a football messageboard and our club is going on what is a potentially catastrophic path.

Most of us, including me, would love for Venky's and Steve Kean to prove us wrong and turn it round from January onwards. But everything points to the opposite.

[Balwer]

Excellent post TGM.

[Mr. E]

Just got back from the match and am very disappointed at the behaviour of a minority on the BBE today:

Shouting for "Venkys out" - they've only been here a month, give them a chance for heavens sake. They've committed to our being a spending club again for the first time in over 5 years and made a significant investment in buying the club. What's more they have a clear vision for taking the club to a bigger stage - something we desperately need if we are to survive at this level

Calling for the return of Sam - not gonna happen, get used to it and get behind the new man and the team. The whys and wherefores have been debated but aren't going to change so lets get used to it

Singing "Theres only one Jack Walker" as some form of protest - there is only one JW but unfortunately that is now part of our history and has been for some years as has his investment in the club - look forward not back

Claiming "We want our Rovers back" - what, the one that had no money and could only hope for survival by boring us to death in the process? No, thank you

All this wailing and weeping seems premature to me - let's see what happens in the transfer window and during January in terms of results before we all start jumping to conclusions

My only concern is that Kean does not try to change things too quickly and is not able to attract the creative midfielder we so obviously need or the striker to bag us 20 goals a season. I saw hope today in the second half that we may even become a footballing side again - let's hope it is not too quick a change and that he is sufficiently pragmatic to "take it one step at a time"

Also, some of the hatred on screwed up faces on the BBE today made me wonder if the reaction would be the same if Venkys had white faces. It can't simply be footballing matters alone that causes such a violent response as we've only had two games and nobody can surely jump to conclusions on that basis - maybe after 12 matches but not 2.

Finally, did anybody die as a result of today's game? Were nations cast into war? Was there widespread pestilence? No - thought not. It is a game of football not a matter of life and death and I worry that some of us attach so much significance to it that we express some pretty nasty sentiments and extreme feelings that are way out of proportion.

Merry Christmas everybody - health and prosperity to all, both of which are of much greater significance than getting beat 2-0 by Stoke City

For some of us, there are literally very few things we can think of that we care more about than Blackburn Rovers. A Rovers win can give us a boost for a whole week. If Rovers are doing bad, we're not feeling good. If Rovers are in the position they are currently in....let's just say your marry Christmas jingle is the last and farthest thing away from our mind. So yes - for you it may not be that big of a deal, but for others it most certainly is.

[RovertheHill]

Well Venky's are certainly getting a crash course in how Premier League is not the same as running a normal business. And Steve Kean a lesson in how being a manager is not the same as being assistant or coach.

The BBE was quite funny about where Venky's might consider putting their chickens.

I guess the perspective would be that we got 2 points from West Ham and Stoke at home last year, and this year we've got 1. Trying to be positive we were a bit more direct than last week. And I think even with Sam in charge we would have struggled today. Stoke are very dirty, bullied us and the ref was a clown.

That all said we should be beating them. Pedersen was poor today. Dunn, unfortunately, looks finished at this level. We are crying out for a Tugay type player.

Not sure what to think at the moment really.

[Paul]

Hughesy, I couldnt make it to the game today as down in London. What were the negative chants?

This is not the time for getting on the players the backs, the only people to direct any negativity towards its Venkys.<br />

There's only one Big Sam

We want our Rovers back

Champions league, you're having a laugh

You can sticking your ******* chickens up your ****

[Stonesrick]

Oh Dear..

Only my 2nd visit to Ewood this season after being a regular attender since 1961.

Under Big Sam...it wasn't always pretty but it was overall relatively effective.

The last 2 games... it's been not very pretty and overall very much ineffective.

Where did it all go wrong?

I feel for Steve Keen to a certain extent. He is obviously a good coach and has found himself thrust into the spotlight at a very challenging time.

I wondered how Tony Pullis felt when he got up this morning? I will tell you how he felt!

"Do you know, I think we can do this lot today" He will have looked across to the opposition bench and thought, no 'Big Sam' to worry about so let's just go for it.

This will be the same feeling that Steve Bruce will have next week at the Stadium of Light. They are all football people who despite any criticisms about their style of play, know the game inside out and how to make the best of what you have got at your disposal.

My son commented to me today that the current situation is similar to our leadership under Paul Ince and Brian Kidd. I really would like the new Manager to succeed but I fear for our future.

The people who have taken over our once proud club are close to sending us over the edge. Quite simply they have not got a clue about how to run a football club!

Someone PLEASE save our once well-respected, well run Club. PLEASE!

[deftangel]

If you actually believe Sam was sacked for any other reason than Venky's wanting their own man in then you're fooling yourself. Even the whole story of being embarassed after the United result is ridiculous (not to mention denied by JW).

Wasn't suggesting that at all. I just don't believe they decision to sack him when they did had anything to do with upcoming fixtures. It was more of a case of keeping him out of January transfer business if you ask me

[BRFC1995]

There's only one Big Sam

We want our Rovers back

Champions league, you're having a laugh

You can sticking your ******* chickens up your ****

did chuckle at the last one, just been reading through the big sams tweets on twitter very very funny..brightened my mood momentarily.

[booth]

There's only one Big Sam

We want our Rovers back

Champions league, you're having a laugh

You can sticking your ******* chickens up your *

The first one was rather strangely started by Stoke fans taking the wazz. The last one was barely audible.

Although I'm gutted about today's performance (and I was there unlike some armchair fans/critics) and I believe an experienced manager should have been lined up, and Venkys have been so far inept. I don't feel Kean is entirely to blame. He has an injury list comparable only to last seasons swine flu epidemic - and if you remember we had a poor run of results then.

I don't agree with the chants/booing but if you must do it, please leave it till after the bloody final whistle. The boos do not help lift a team that are already saddled with baggage.

Anyway it's boxing day, bring on more alcohol.

[JAL]

That was terrible !

If it wasnt for two fantastic saves from Robinson and a diabolical miss from a Stoke player in the first half, a true result today should have read Rovers 0 Stoke 5, now that isnt acceptable.

[grizfoot]

Apparently it's the season to be jolly, but I felt anything but jolly after today's game. The starting line-up again was slightly surprising with Dunn retaining his place in the side whilst EH-Diouf dropped to the bench. I know many people have slated Dunn's recent performances, some of it is valid but I still think he's got plenty to offer but not in the role he was playing today. 4-4-2 with Pedersen and Dunn in the centre is far too lightweight and Dunn just doesn't have the legs to play there anymore. Today's game was an example of why we played 4-5-1 under Big Sam, most notably because we don't have one decent striker let alone two! I know Huth & Shawcross are very good defenders but Kalinic and Mame Diouf just didn't trouble them enough, sometimes they didn't even bother to challenge with them in the air. Which is totally unaccepted when we the long ball we do. I thought we tried to play it a lot more on the ground against West Ham but today we seemed to go back to the ol' hoof ball which played into the hands of the Stoke Giants. Also thought the two strikers failed to hold up the ball to any degree and where muscled off the ball far too easily, Kalinic embarrassing attempt to win a penalty in the second half when he had his back to goal and just decided to fall over just about summed up his game. He did actually start brightly but totally faded out of the game and you can see why he was our fourth choice striker of late. Mame Diouf did at least show a little bit and got in a few good areas but never really had any decent chances to score.

The main problem I'm sure everyone will agree is the total lack of creativity in the team. Common sense dictates if we are going to play 4-4-2 we need to try and attack down the wings and put crosses in, Olsson did look dangerous when he ran at their fullback but these occasions were strangely rare. We didn't attack down the wings enough and instead seemed to play far too central a lot of the time. The level of passing ability was quite shocking for a Premiership team, only Pedersen & Salgado look capable of picking out any sort of inventive pass (I felt sorry for these two players at times in fact). Which begs the question should we maybe move Salgado into a central midfield position with our recent central midfield injury crisis because he doesn't get chance to show his creativity side from his right-back position that often.

For the last twenty minutes or Kean made a tactical change some sort of exotic 3-4-1-2 formation, illustrated below:

------------------Robinson-----------------

-----------Hanley, Nelsen, Givet------------

--Salgado, Emerton, Pedersen, Olsson---

--------------------Holiett------------------------

--------------Kalinic ------Diouf-----------------

To be fair we did seem to improve slightly once we switched to this formation. Holiett looked very lively when he came on and was arguably one of best players.

Onto Stoke, what an ugly, aggressive and time-wasting team they are. Without Samba, Jones & Roberts we lacked any sort of muscular strength in our team and that was even more apparent because of the way Stoke play. It's a sort of more effective version of our hoof ball, they have a tall and physically strong team and that paid for them today. Etherington should have put Stoke ahead after a knock-on from a long-throw but somehow missed from one yard out. They began the second half strongly and scored from a corner. After that they seemed happy to setback on the 0-1, and who could blame them really we never looked like scoring. Our only meaningful attempt on goal was a Nelsen header which was saved, apart from that we very rarely threatened the Stoke goal. Inevitable with the change to three at back it opened up the possibility of conceding another, and that unfortunately happened. Cue mass exodus and a chorus of boos from Ewood, not a pretty sight at all. Easy to blame Steve Kean and in result easy to blame Venky's for this defeat. But that's being far too narrow-sighted; I think the unfortunate timings of the injuries to three key personnel down the spine of our team where cleary evident today not least because of the opposition. Samba is the focal point of all our set-pieces and without him against the giants of Stoke we never carried or usually threats from set-pieces, which are our main source of goals. Stoke are a decent Premiership side but their constant fouling and slowing down of the game is highly annoying. Not helped by the referee who seemed to allow this and overall put in a very poor performance I thought.

In conclusion we didn't deserve anything from this game, we definitely missed the injured players today. But more worryingly for me is that Steve Kean seems to think 4-4-2 is the way to go, but with our lack of midfield muscle it clearly isn't. In addition we don't have a good enough collection of strikers to choose two upfront, it was like we had two dominos upfront at times today at least Roberts for some of his flaws can at least hold-up the ball and bring other players into play. Today the ball came back far too easily with Stoke winning virtual every aerial battle, this a large part of the reason why we failed to create anything today. A physical strong target man is something we definitely need in January if we are going to persist with the hoof ball, incidentally which I thought was going to be out-ruled. But if today's results is anything to go by it looks like it's here to stay. Trying to win at hoof ball against Stoke is like trying to beat Phil Taylor at darts, it's not going to happen! I can see why some people are highly pessimistic about our prospects for the remainder of the season. I'm more baffled by the style of play we operated today, it was clearly no different from the Big Sam era and I was left cursing every time the ball was lofted aimlessly in the air for Shawcross or Huth to effortlessly clear.

[Gav]

I don't live around Blackburn and work a fair few weekends so can only go to a game every so often.

I don't really watch SSN.

Well stop telling people WHO DO GO on a regular basis that they're talking rubbish and cack, because being hold up in your bedroom listening to Merson doesn’t qualify you to do so.

[47er]

So bloody what?

This is the Premier League. We don't have time to be "giving a bloke a chance". We should not be appointing managers without any managerial experience. End of story. Why wait and see? Why not just get someone who has been there and done it?

Time to get an actual manager in.

To use your own words Mrs D----"Why wait?"

[NookRover]

The way I see today's shambles....

You can't play 4-4-2 with Bert on the right Dunny and MGP in the middle far too lightweight and if you don't control the middle of the park you don't win anything!

Very very unsettled about the whole thing at the moment!

[Hughesy]

Hughesy, I think you will find that the people who are critical of what has happened are PASSIONATE SUPPORTERS.

You will find most of them wanted rid of Sams style too.

I sit in N02 - alot of N01 were very negative towards Big Sam, now he's gone its the Owners fault & Sam is a legend type stuff....its something the Geordies are good at being like that, not usually our fans!

[beerwins]

did chuckle at the last one, just been reading through the big sams tweets on twitter very very funny..brightened my mood momentarily.

"Leonardo got the ****ing Inter Milan job? What a joke. Is he gonna bring Donatello, Raphael and Michelangelo as his assistants? ******".

Thebig_sam :lol:

[Lurid Coat]

@#/? performance, embarrassing to watch at times. I'm not going to eat a chicken, let alone choke the chicken, until Venky's sort this out

[JAL]

Has it been mentioned about the live chicken that was brought onto the ground in the Darwen end.

[Mattyblue]

You will find most of them wanted rid of Sams style too.

I sit in N02 - alot of N01 were very negative towards Big Sam, now he's gone its the Owners fault & Sam is a legend type stuff....its something the Geordies are good at being like that, not usually our fans!

You'd hope that the vocal minority that never took to Sam have learnt a valuable lesson (I doubt it though).