[Archived] The Blackburn Rovers Supporter

[Paul]

Hell, all PB was wanting was perhaps a banner stating 'Tell Us What Is Going On!

Have we as a messageboard become Yes Men. Have we to cower away from venting our feelings!

Something needs to be done - let's do it!<br />

I feel you're correct in saying something needs to be done. I also believe the management we trust, JW / TF, do not want to see fans protest during games as the team needs our total support. I'd agree it's possible to protest against Venky's and support the team, but that may not be how it would come across to the players on the pitch.

Personally I think supporters should boycott the QPR game. In the grand scheme the result is irrelevant and so we would not be damaging the club but would show Venky's how things would look without 20000 fans at Ewood.

Initially I was disappointed PB's thread was pulled, I still am as we should, within the bounds of decency, be able to express any view. However we have to remember Glenn and Ste B could find themselves hugely exposed should the Rao family take offence to a post(s).

Several years back, when I was part of the admin team, we received an appeal from a Coventry fan looking for support in his battle with a Coventry director (or the Chairman?) who was suing him over remarks on the fans' MB. I forget the outcome but as the site admin the guy was being pursued for facilitating those who made derogatory remarks about the Coventry official. We should not, indeed cannot, expect Ste and Glenn, possibly the mods as well, to run that risk. If it's deemed necessary to remove posts / threads we have to live with it.

As a middle of the road sort of guy I've been surprised to see some of mine removed. I simply decided to be very careful over how I phrase my remarks / views on the current ownership.

[dave birch]

Agree with you to some extent, Paul, but surely the "mods" could edit the post, or at least invite PB to change it to an acceptable post.

Just taking it out is not an answer.

[philipl]

Reading the pinned posting guidelines, I do understand the mods nervousness about the MB becoming a conduit for organised protest. But I think the action being taken is going too far considering what was actually in the threads which was as far from sedition as anything could be!

[Wild Irish Rover]

Agree with you to some extent, Paul, but surely the "mods" could edit the post, or at least invite PB to change it to an acceptable post.

Just taking it out is not an answer.

I absolutely agree. This is 21st Century England we are talking about, and not 20th Century China. If an individual abuses his right to free speech on the messageboard then I think it is reasonable for the rules for moderating posts should be invoked and the individual sanctioned (if necessary with public warnings). That in itself should be sufficient to demonstrate to any potentially enraged third party that the moderators have discharged their obligations and allow for the legal pursuit of the individual by the wronged party, rather than the mealy mouthed shotgoon approach of going after the message board.

Stick to the rules, people, but do not start a culture of censorship 'just in case' someone might take offence.

And as for the Rao family getting upset by things posted here in good faith, well, what do they expect? If you take over a business that is so tightly connected with a passionate community and proceed to make fundamental and basic mistakes in managing the transition from the old regime to the brave new future, wouldn't you anticipate some turbulence along the way? Now obviously the fans and their attendant revenues are less significant in terms of revenue for the new owners than the immense sums involved from the media, but doesn't most of the media money leak into players' pockets anyway? All I would say to the Raos at this stage is, if you don't believe that keeping the fans on board is important for building the future of the club, then you do not deserve to be the owners of this proud and historic brand. And if you don't get that, then the club has no future either, so you are wasting your money, our time and for what?

[Paul]

While I agree with Dave, Philip and WIR we have to see it through Admin's eyes, I know I've been there. If I was weighing up the possibility of being sued against taking some flak on here for removing posts I know which way I'd jump!! The difficulty is while admin / mods may well feel they have "discharged their obligations" leaving the individual who made the post to be persued the reality could be different. The MB does not have the money to fully understand the legal niceties, arguably the law doesn't yet understand the position either. If a wealthy individual took exception to remarks made on here it's likely the outcome would be severe for those held responsible, if only because the sad truth of English justice is that money talks.........or perhaps lack of money prevents you from talking. This doesn't make post removal correct (in the sense decent, proper opinions of whatever persuasion should be allowable in the UK) but it makes it fully understandable.

It worries me that should a time come when protest is needed there might not be an opportunity for it to be organised through concerns for those who run this, or any other, board. No doubt Glenn will be along to tell us about free speech!

[dave birch]

While I agree with Dave, Philip and WIR we have to see it through Admin's eyes, I know I've been there. If I was weighing up the possibility of being sued against taking some flak on here for removing posts I know which way I'd jump!! The difficulty is while admin / mods may well feel they have "discharged their obligations" leaving the individual who made the post to be persued the reality could be different. The MB does not have the money to fully understand the legal niceties, arguably the law doesn't yet understand the position either. If a wealthy individual took exception to remarks made on here it's likely the outcome would be severe for those held responsible, if only because the sad truth of English justice is that money talks.........or perhaps lack of money prevents you from talking. This doesn't make post removal correct (in the sense decent, proper opinions of whatever persuasion should be allowable in the UK) but it makes it fully understandable.

It worries me that should a time come when protest is needed there might not be an opportunity for it to be organised through concerns for those who run this, or any other, board. No doubt Glenn will be along to tell us about free speech!

Understand what you're saying, Paul.

It's a sad state of affairs when someone can't put their thoughts and opinions in the public sphere without threat or intimidation.

[Wild Irish Rover]

It is for the reasons that this message board is (generally) a model of reasoned argument, proper debate and measured commentary that the moderators should feel confident that those posting here are a) aware of and b ) respect the appropriate protocol for posting. As a result there is really no need for censorship 'at source'. If this board was the typical foulmouthed ragbag of moronic tirades that passes for supporters' club forums eleswhere then perhaps there might be a case - but it isn't. Any transgressions in the past, well intentioned or not, have been appropriately and professionally dealt with by our excellent mods. Any attempt to suppress free speech by the representatives of third parties outside the messageboard (e.g. owners and / or their families) smacks of bullying and is inappropriate in this day and age. I, for one, will not tolerate it and will continue to champion our right to say what we feel (within the rules of play for the messageboard of course!) in the best interests of Blackburn Rovers and it's real 'owners' - the fans.

Football is fundamentally rotten because of the hideous and totally corrupt avarice of a few, which spoils it for the majority. The BRFCS forums are one of the few places that we, the supporter, still have a voice and a chance to collectively air our concerns. Long may that continue.

[darwenblueswearehere]

I couldn't see anything in that censored thread to warrant pulling it. In fact, there are far more libellous comments in some of the other unlocked threads.

I still think some sort of PEACEFUL protest should be considered if we still feel as uneasy about our beloved football club at the end of January. And this takes planning and organisation......mainly to ensure that it remains peaceful.

Locking the thread was an overreaction.

[roversmum]

Perhaps there was no choice. It's a great shame, though, when an independent supporters' board is subjected to such monitoring. The thing is, these issues will still be be discussed on obscure boards - they can't all be monitored. I think the club's new owners need to realise fast, that we are not in India, our fans come in all shapes and sizes, colours and creeds, and the dreaded word which we no longer use in England, "class". We expect free speech and equality.

[Mattyblue]

Back in 2005 when we set up BRISA (Blackburn Rovers INDEPENDENT Supporters Association) this site was the facilitator of it.

Now we have an issue with the club, such independent groups/protests are not welcome on BRFCS?

[RovertheHill]

I don't know how litigious Venky's are but I do know that the Indian business culture is one where very senior people are highly respected and rarely questioned in any depth. I'm sure all of this has come as a shock to them. Which shows how badly advised and informed they have been during this whole buying process, because football and the British press are about as far the other way as you can go. If Kentaro are their advisors they have either completely failed them in this respect or they have been foolishly ignored.

At the moment they are completely stuffing this up. The decisions they are making seem ill-conceived - and the lack of a coherent explanation and PR about it is simply fuelling the fire. If I was to venture a hypothesis I think they had possibly lined somebody else to be manager, potted Sam, and then the other person backed away. And they had no plan B. Which would explain the mixed messages and the seemingly bizarre promotion of Kean to would-be manager. He may be a great coach, but then so was Brian Kidd, so it doesn't guarentee a good manager. And the poor guy is landed in the middle of this! Talk about a poison chalice.

Unfortunately for us, fine words about not deserving to own Rovers mean nothing. The £46M they paid means everything. Which means they have to get it right. Us protesting won't actually solve anything or help anything, other than make us feel (slightly) better.

I think Nicko is mostly right on this subject apart from I don't agree that this will all be forgotten if Kean gets a couple of wins. I think this is now too deep.

What I think we need is to appoint an experienced manager now. One that most people can unite behind. I don't buy into the statements that nobody would come. Money talks in football. Keep Kean on by all means - he's done nothing wrong. Even groom him to be the next manager if he's that good. But he has a snowballs chance in hell at the moment so draw a line under the whole thing.

Will that happen? Doubt it...

[Kelbo]

I don't know how litigious Venky's are but I do know that the Indian business culture is one where very senior people are highly respected and rarely questioned in any depth. I'm sure all of this has come as a shock to them. Which shows how badly advised and informed they have been during this whole buying process, because football and the British press are about as far the other way as you can go. If Kentaro are their advisors they have either completely failed them in this respect or they have been foolishly ignored.

At the moment they are completely stuffing this up. The decisions they are making seem ill-conceived - and the lack of a coherent explanation and PR about it is simply fuelling the fire. If I was to venture a hypothesis I think they had possibly lined somebody else to be manager, potted Sam, and then the other person backed away. And they had no plan B. Which would explain the mixed messages and the seemingly bizarre promotion of Kean to would-be manager. He may be a great coach, but then so was Brian Kidd, so it doesn't guarentee a good manager. And the poor guy is landed in the middle of this! Talk about a poison chalice.

Unfortunately for us, fine words about not deserving to own Rovers mean nothing. The £46M they paid means everything. Which means they have to get it right. Us protesting won't actually solve anything or help anything, other than make us feel (slightly) better.

I think Nicko is mostly right on this subject apart from I don't agree that this will all be forgotten if Kean gets a couple of wins. I think this is now too deep.

What I think we need is to appoint an experienced manager now. One that most people can unite behind. I don't buy into the statements that nobody would come. Money talks in football. Keep Kean on by all means - he's done nothing wrong. Even groom him to be the next manager if he's that good. But he has a snowballs chance in hell at the moment so draw a line under the whole thing.

Will that happen? Doubt it...

Rover, I hear what you are saying but tell me how, thousands of frustrated and gutted Rovers supporters can make this bunch of amateur owners come to some sort of sense? If we cant phone Radio Rovers and make a protest, we are not allowed to post anything close to the mark on here, just how do we go about changing things.

I remember Lord Waddington, former MP for Nelson & Colne many years ago saying to me 'fight for what you believe in, if right is on your side, you will eventually win' that is basically all we are asking, the opportunity to fight for what is right for our football club, not for the 'Venky Hillbillies'

[adopted scouser]

Club's definitely in decline now. The glory days of Walker/Shearer/Kenny are but a distant dream.

We're owned by chicken farmers who haven't got a clue about the game and haven't got any money.

Better get ready for the championship lads, because that's where we are heading.

[RovertheHill]

Rover, I hear what you are saying but tell me how, thousands of frustrated and gutted Rovers supporters can make this bunch of amateur owners come to some sort of sense? If we cant phone Radio Rovers and make a protest, we are not allowed to post anything close to the mark on here, just how do we go about changing things.

I remember Lord Waddington, former MP for Nelson & Colne many years ago saying to me 'fight for what you believe in, if right is on your side, you will eventually win' that is basically all we are asking, the opportunity to fight for what is right for our football club, not for the 'Venky Hillbillies'

I know. But no doubt West Ham fans, Pompey fans, Newcastle fans, Man Utd fans think they are right too, and what has their demonstrating got them, other than ridicule and occasionally, pity?

I don't know the answer - except I think we need experience at the helm now. Hopefully somebody (JW, Kentaro) will persuade Venky's of that too

[K-Hod]

The passion will always be there, but the lack of clarity/explanation from the Venky's group that have taken over our beloved club is alarming.

As has been highlighted before, their PR skills have been dreadful, people can talk about different cultures and all this nonsense but they're human beings, they visited the club before buying it so they must have some sort of idea about the fans and our feelings towards the club.

All we want is some answers, I will never stop supporting BRFC but Venky's aren't making it easy to love my club! Desai/Rao's- SPEAK UP!!!!!!

[A cup of beans]

Ive missed most of whats been going on on this magnificent board for the last month or so.. (moving house and no broadband).. the silence is worrying.. but ALL OF US as rovers fans need to tread carefully with any decent or protest at the venkys etc..

the future of our club depends on the owners and fans working together... communication is key.. and dont forget the new owners are new to all this too.

maybe we could get john williams on here to answr a few questions.. ??

also i fail to see why people were so offended by the venkys signs.. they own the club... so why shouldnt they use the club to promote it on the ad boards.. ??

anyway.. we all need to stay supporting our club.. talk of people falling out of love with it and boycotting games is a little bewildering! we are needed more than ever!

the players, staff need the fans behind the club, with vocal support! so lets sing and chant louder than we ever have before!! COME ON YOU BLUES!

[Drummer Boy]

I also think a protest is pointless and, at this stage, premature.

The new owners have just splashed a load of cash to buy the club, have articulated a bold & clear vision for promoting and building the brand in huge new markets and have undertaken to invest as required.

After seven years of very limited investment from the Walker Trust where we have had to sell to survive, I am prepared to give the new owners the benefit of the doubt and not stage a protest less than one month in because they've chosen to dispense with the services of the current management team. A decision that will not change no matter what the protest from those fans who don't agree/are scared of change/enjoyed the Allardyce style of play/ don't like the new owners for whatever reason

Talking of the former manager, he is undoubtedly a good manager with a proven record in the top flight that stands comparison with all but the those at the helm of the big four - he dug us out of a big hole for which I will always be grateful. But, as in business (which is what BRFC is nowadays), new owners have different visions and want to bring in their own man.

Clearly they were not happy with the fare offered by Sam's approach to the game no matter what the mitigating circumstances around budget and resources and felt their vision required something different. Instead of protesting, maybe we should applaud their ambition and decisiveness?

I won't miss the dirge presented so many times under Sam and I hope to be entertained a lot more - I was starting to question my ST; however, it is with some trepidation as I know under Sam we would have been safe - the question is whether the inherent risk involved in this decision will pay off. Only time will tell!

I for one am prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt and some time before marching in indignant protest as sometimes risks are worth taking and I have to say I found the booing of the Venkys adverts last week puerile at best - these guys have just committed to spending a load of cash, so let's give them a break rather than slagging them off before they've even had a chance to show their intent.

[Mr. E]

If the club was 1 day away from liquidation, I can guarantee that there would still be a number of "fans" going on about exaggerations and what not.

Venkys have taken over, and have already done things too X-rated to even describe. Those that care are outraged but helpless, and many go "well..yeah, we'll see I guess".

If there's one thing Venkys have done good research on and have it spot on, is that the fans will simply stand back and take it quietly.

[nellybc]

I've never felt lime walking away in 36 years but it will take a big change of direction for me to purchase my two season tickets for next season

Thats exactly what my dad told me yesterday.

[daveoftherovers]

Thats exactly what my dad told me yesterday.

Isn't this all a bit premature, it's still OUR club, the club was owned by people who clearly did not want us anymore, this lot do, whatever we think of them and them of us.

I agree that their PR and the way they sacked BS is bang out of order, but none of us really know what went on behind the scenes do we?

I'll tell you something irritating to me though, all the BS haters, including the one's on this board, at the ground and in the media, how can they all have their cake and eat it to such an extent that they are?

Where are they now? They have their way, but he's been treated really badly (Worst ever in some media circles), the new owners are satan and we are a joke club, a laughing stock???

The only thing that has physically changed is the manager, which according to the many BS haters, was well overdue!!???

I didn't like the BS brand of football, I came to Rovers with heavy feet on most occassions, and it wasn't passionate stuff most of the time was it?HOWEVER, we needed him and he needed us, and he saved us and got us 10th on a shoestring, and he was better than Ince (Who nearly relegated us)

Not many people like change, especially when we are simply not used to it (Compared to most other clubs) and of course you add in the totally different culture that our new owners have, it is alien to most of us and we will be totally alien to them.

So, in summary, I'd simply ask that my fellow Rovers supporters give everybody concerned some time and space, we've been through far worse times, I'm 41 and be going since I was 6, and my daughters and myself, will be going to Rovers probably a long time after these guys have finished their relationship with us, that I can assure you.

Yes they've ballsed this all up, but please stop buying into the media hype and circus and the doom mongerers, at least we are not Dingles, Bolton (96Million in debt) United, 3/4 of a Billion, Liverpool (Big Debt, rubbish owners and having to come to terms with being mediocre) Pompey (Just knackered all ends up) PNE, Sheff Weds, the list goes on....

I agree, the Atmosphere is something we can work on isn't it? I'm in BBE N02 and sing as much as I can, and I think I'm going to move to the Darwen end next season, so if the BBE won't sing up more, I'll go somewhere that will, even though I've been in the same seat for 7 years and like where I am.

[Ste B]

Ok, locking this. Discussion on the site policy is in Ask Admin.

I think however, Pauls summed the situation up in hist posts above as well as myself and Glenn could.