[Archived] Steve Kean

[nicko]

Whilst I agree with Den about there being no problem with what Samba actaually said, it's the fact that he appeared to be using the current situation to engineer a move for himself that has annoyed me when, if you believe Nicko and Kean, he has been after the move for the last 12 months. I think that Kean has handled thie situation very well. It gives a message to the players that, "if your not happy fine you can leave, but only on our terms. Oh and don't try and pull the wool over the eyes of the fans as I will tell them what I understand the situation to be"

Now I don't profess to know what the real situation is, but as Samba/his agent have not, to my knowledge responded/denied the comments from Kean, then I can only presume it is as Kean has told it. In that situation, why should Samba remain as captain - the figurehead of the players? I'm not doubting his performances on the pitch as he has regularly been our best defender, but if he doesn't want to be here then sorry mate, you can't lead the side

For the umpteenth time...

I know he was looking to get a move going THIS SEASON.

The manager asked his agent [one of the current ones] what it was all about and he said it had been the case for A YEAR.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

That was the problem, a very good and well respected Chairman, nor the coaches had no idea what was happening, lots of players were not only mystified about what was happening but angry too in the way things had been done, whatever is said now, that was definately the case after the sacking of Sam.

I ask you this, the common sense of the matter, would you as an employee not be unsettled, if a manager doing a pretty decent job was unjustly sacked by people with no knowledge of the game or industry?

So because he can't get answers without talking to the people pulling the strings (I do believe modern technology makes contact with people in India possible) he goes and spouts off to a journalist? It doesn't make sense. What good could he possibly have thought that would do? In the situation, unrest was understandable, but as the captain of the team why add to it?

It could even have been as simple as sitting tight for a couple of days to wait for Kean to come back from India, at which point he might have got the answers he wanted.

Instead he ran to the media whinging at the same time that Kean was talking to the owners to clear up the matter. If the players were told of the trip, which we're led to believe they were, then what was so urgent that he couldn't hold fire for one more day?

[fishmesiter]

For the umpteenth time...

I know he was looking to get a move going THIS SEASON.

The manager asked his agent [one of the current ones] what it was all about and he said it had been the case for A YEAR.

And I'm not doubting that you're right - and Kean has backed you up - I'm repsonding to Den's opinion that Kean handled the affair poorly, whereas I don't

[nicko]

And I'm not doubting that you're right - and Kean has backed you up - I'm repsonding to Den's opinion that Kean handled the affair poorly, whereas I don't

I was just clarifying. Some muppets trying to suggest the scenario was made up.

Anyway, that story has not run its full course yet.

[fishmesiter]

I was just clarifying. Some muppets trying to suggest the scenario was made up.

Anyway, that story has not run its full course yet.

Care to elaborate?

[den]

Now I don't profess to know what the real situation is, but as Samba/his agent have not, to my knowledge responded/denied the comments from Kean, then I can only presume it is as Kean has told it. In that situation, why should Samba remain as captain - the figurehead of the players? I'm not doubting his performances on the pitch as he has regularly been our best defender, but if he doesn't want to be here then sorry mate, you can't lead the side

A good manager supports his players and does his talking in private because he knows he needs his best player with him and he needs team a good team spirit. Coming out with this kind of talk and publically stripping him of the captaincy wasn't necessary in the slightest.

Before Keans actions there had been no problem. After his actions Samba is probably closer to leaving than before. What Kean did was counter productive and he used it for his own ends.

As for Kean saying "anyone who wants to leave can do", either he shouldn't say it, or he should be prepared for an exodus. Sometimes you need to hold back in the interests of the team.

[deftangel]

Apart from the last sentence of your post, which you added. You know, the one where you said it had gone 'pair shaped.'

The parts of his posts in quotes were the first three lines. The pear shaped bit wasn't, indicating that it wasn't a quotation from the article in question. It hadn't been edited as best I can tell. I've been pretty critical of that particular poster but it was clear enough to me.

With that said, talking about the quite obvious upheaval in having a change of manager is hardly "pursuing an agenda"

Edit: Whilst we're at it;-

Read the LT Olsson piece as well- he confirms the same thing that the players were not happy.

You mean this one? He confirms the players were a bit down after the manager they liked was sacked. Wow, hold the press. You forgot to mention the part about being professional and moving on. Why's that?

Speaking about Samba. There seems to be some ambiguity as to what he actually said. Was it on video or anything. Link?

[den]

Speaking about Samba. There seems to be some ambiguity as to what he actually said. Was it on video or anything. Link?

No ambiguity at all from Samba. Plenty of stories/rumours from other sources that are damaging the club though.

[fishmesiter]

A good manager supports his players and does his talking in private because he knows he needs his best player with him and he needs team a good team spirit. Coming out with this kind of talk and publically stripping him of the captaincy wasn't necessary in the slightest.

Before Keans actions there had been no problem. After his actions Samba is probably closer to leaving than before. What Kean did was counter productive and he used it for his own ends.

I think he needed to use it for his own ends in the first place. It's his first appointment, he's facing unprecendented pressure, in recent years at least, from the fans - he needs to show who's in charge - hence the comments and give him the morale high ground. I would agree if everything else was shipshape then keep things in house - but given the current situation and players giving interviews to sky, radio lancs and anybody elses who will listen - I believe it was important for this to come out and let the fans know that this was not to do with the current regieme(spell?) but had been simmering for a while

[philipl]

excellent summary den.

as the new topic, seems to be player mutiny, as opposed to complete sweet happines, could you phillip and imy9, perhaps meet in the middle. It would seem natural, that with all the changes, in such a short timeframe, that the staff, the players and employees at the club, were thrown into a situation with alot of uncertainties. Now some of the dust has settled and the majority knows a bit about, what the future holds, things are perhaps closer to normal, then it was a week or 2 ago.

I'd agree with that.

All through the take-over saga, the priority of John Williams has been to keep the disruption away from the players. With the exception of one minor incident, that was achieved which meant the sacking of Sam and the way it was handled came as an even bigger bombshell to the players who had hitherto been able to focus on the football with little distraction.

Clearly, the player side has now settled down helped enormously by them achieving the win at West Brom which is great news for everybody but it will be a case of all eyes on whether Chris Samba is selected at Sunderland whilst the uncertainty behind the scenes in most other regards remains.

It seems the Venky's are micromanaging things they shouldn't be doing in a well-run UK plc and are not giving answers to big questions like the January transfer budget?

[Miker]

Anyway, that story has not run its full course yet.

I'm sure there's plenty of journalists still looking to make a quick buck from farcical rumours.

[greco]

Whilst I agree with Den about there being no problem with what Samba actaually said, it's the fact that he appeared to be using the current situation to engineer a move for himself that has annoyed me when, if you believe Nicko and Kean, he has been after the move for the last 12 months. I think that Kean has handled thie situation very well. It gives a message to the players that, "if your not happy fine you can leave, but only on our terms. Oh and don't try and pull the wool over the eyes of the fans as I will tell them what I understand the situation to be"

Now I don't profess to know what the real situation is, but as Samba/his agent have not, to my knowledge responded/denied the comments from Kean, then I can only presume it is as Kean has told it. In that situation, why should Samba remain as captain - the figurehead of the players? I'm not doubting his performances on the pitch as he has regularly been our best defender, but if he doesn't want to be here then sorry mate, you can't lead the side

perhaps samba wanted a bigger challenge, no problem with that at all, yet he still maintained a professional attitude and done excellent on the field. He, according to nicko and his lovechild kean ,has been wanting away for a year, yet in that year he was still captain, so nothing has changed regarding his captaincy.!!! To me it sounds like a case of samba being interested to move, IF a big club came in for him, but far form eager or desperate.

lets say, at your job, you´ve been pondering for a year about a big challenge, but you are still satisfied with the current enviroment at work. All of a sudden, the boss you like is sacked, without a good reason, when you seek answers, the firms key staff members dont know anything and are isolated and the new owners are constantly delivering utterly stupid statements on a daily basis..

Then the the enviroment at your workplace, the one you felt was ok, is gone and then you would probably A) move on or B.) bitch about it and samba bitched about the situation, nothing more than that. He reacted like most would do. Take away the blue and white glasses, put yourself in his situation and the reaction would be the exact same.

going to be my last comment this subject, no need for me, to repeat my opinion again and again.

[deftangel]

No ambiguity at all from Samba. Plenty of stories/rumours from other sources that are damaging the club though.

That's what I mean. I was looking for the best transcript of his actual comments so I could hear it for myself.

I don't particularly have an issue with either Samba or how Kean's handled it so far but the proof is actually in the pudding if he actually stays and performs whilst he's been here. There are too many intangibles at present. I've seen Kean answer a question directly, which is no bad thing and taking an actual action with regard to the captaincy might have had benefits in terms of stamping his authority on the squad. They say, coaches are often poor managers because they were previously the players best mate. If he puts a few noses out of joint it's probably no bad thing. So long as they are the right ones.

[Amo]

A good manager supports his players and does his talking in private because he knows he needs his best player with him and he needs team a good team spirit.

Unlike Big Sam, who'd constantly rebuke players after a bad result?

[deftangel]

IIt seems the Venky's are micromanaging things they shouldn't be doing in a well-run UK plc and are not giving answers to big questions like the January transfer budget?

I would rather they didn't tell the world what our transfer budget was. We've always played our cards close to our chests on transfers and long may that continue. I expect some bleating about how much they' ve spent will come out because it's good PR (for them) for the fans but after the event is much more preferable. The only person who needs a firm answer on that right now is Kean.

Going by his post match comments after WBA about Samba just missing a fitness test and the softening position on him wanting away, I would expect him to start on Saturday if there hasn't been a lapse.

[den]

I think he needed to use it for his own ends in the first place. It's his first appointment, he's facing unprecendented pressure, in recent years at least, from the fans - he needs to show who's in charge - hence the comments and give him the morale high ground. I would agree if everything else was shipshape then keep things in house - but given the current situation and players giving interviews to sky, radio lancs and anybody elses who will listen - I believe it was important for this to come out and let the fans know that this was not to do with the current regieme(spell?) but had been simmering for a while

Yes, I think you're right about why Kean said what he did. I just think it was unwise and only makes matters worse. He should have kept it under his hat and dealt with it in private. In effect, he's punished Samba for a situation that had arisen under Allardyce. Samba's comments last week were all pretty harmless really. If Kean hadn't reacted the way he did, we wouldn't be discussing the captains future just now. I also think Kean will realise that - hopefully soon. Don't forget, the previous manager had the same scenario with Samba for 12 months and he didn't go to the press about it, or strip him of the captaincy. These situations arise all the time for all managers, and this is what they have to deal with.

He must take the players with him - any manager has to do that. Otherwise we'll end up with a Jim Iley situation and some of the older posters will know what happened there.

[Miker]

I don't particularly have an issue with either Samba or how Kean's handled it so far but the proof is actually in the pudding if he actually stays and performs whilst he's been here.

Spot on. Less talk, more action. I want to see the results on the pitch, not the real/fabricated drama in the background.

[den]

Unlike Big Sam, who'd constantly rebuke players after a bad result?

Give the hatred a rest.

Allardyce managed the Samba situation quite well don't you think? He was still here, still captain and still performing. And we knew nothing about it.

[philipl]

I would rather they didn't tell the world what our transfer budget was. We've always played our cards close to our chests on transfers and long may that continue. I expect some bleating about how much they' ve spent will come out because it's good PR (for them) for the fans but after the event is much more preferable. The only person who needs a firm answer on that right now is Kean.

Going by his post match comments after WBA about Samba just missing a fitness test and the softening position on him wanting away, I would expect him to start on Saturday if there hasn't been a lapse.

Agreed but the LT are suggesting Steve Kean doesn't know what it is. That is not good news as it suggests he is not in charge of running the transfers.

[Amo]

Give the hatred a rest.

You're a fine one to talk about bias for the old manager.

[Miker]

Allardyce managed the Samba situation quite well don't you think? He was still here, still captain and still performing. And we knew nothing about it.

True that - Sam seemed to divert all the attention and negativity onto himself rather than the club.

[fishmesiter]

Yes, I think you're right about why Kean said what he did. I just think it was unwise and only makes matters worse. He should have kept it under his hat and dealt with it in private. In effect, he's punished Samba for a situation that had arisen under Allardyce. Samba's comments last week were all pretty harmless really. If Kean hadn't reacted the way he did, we wouldn't be discussing the captains future just now. I also think Kean will realise that - hopefully soon. Don't forget, the previous manager had the same scenario with Samba for 12 months and he didn't go to the press about it, or strip him of the captaincy. These situations arise all the time for all managers, and this is what they have to deal with.

He must take the players with him - any manager has to do that. Otherwise we'll end up with a Jim Iley situation and some of the older posters will know what happened there.

Granted Allardyce kept it under his hat - and I'm quite sure it's not just Samba he had to deal with. I'm just concerned people are getting on Keanes back to early - not a dig at you per se. You're right managers do have to deal with this type of thing, but Keane has admitted the media side of things is all new to him - let's give him achance and allow him to make some mistakes - always assuming he learns from them.

BTW Jim Iley was to early for me - I started attending around the time Howard Kendall was appointed

[rigger]

Granted Allardyce kept it under his hat - and I'm quite sure it's not just Samba he had to deal with. I'm just concerned people are getting on Keanes back to early - not a dig at you per se. You're right managers do have to deal with this type of thing, but Keane has admitted the media side of things is all new to him - let's give him achance and allow him to make some mistakes - always assuming he learns from them.

BTW Jim Iley was to early for me - I started attending around the time Howard Kendall was appointed

You lucky bugger

[fishmesiter]

You lucky bugger

That bad Eh?

[imy9]

The facts about Samba are there in print, in black and White, if people want to believe hypothetical situations that may or may not be happening about Samba so be it, in my eyes unless he makes a public statement clarifying the situation he will have be one yet another mercenary footballer.