[Archived] Steve Kean

[John]

Stating the obvious however just need to be careful we don't get sucked into a relegation battle now - Jason Roberts mentioned the "r" word in his post match comments.

With a very inexperienced management team, if we go on a losing run there could be challenging times ahead. Hopefully Santa can stay fit as we look a much better team with him in it.

[chris]

I don't want to start another argument

boy are you on the wrong board then

[Roaming Rover]

A good manager is one who can identify the BEST players and then mould/shape them into a team.

Can Kean identify and bring in the best players for Rovers ?

The honest answer is I don't know......but did Sam pick the best players and mould them into a team? He didn;t have the players for a 451 when he first came into the club but continued to play with that formation. To be fair Kean is trying to do that and hopefully given some time will be able to do this.

Isn't this just what we already had while Sam and Kean were part of the same backroom staff? I don't want to start another argument, but I felt we played good football in quite a few games under Sam. I could see that the squad was slowly improving both as a defensive unit and a more mobile attacking unit with Olsson and Hoilett slowly growing in influence. Ideally, I was hoping it would continue in that fashion and I'm quite confident it would have. In fairness, it seems now that Kean has continued doing a good job from an attacking perspective, but we're starting to regress quite badly defensively.

.

Sam for me was his own worst enemy. I think he is actually a better manager than he lets himself be. He sticks to his defensive negative tactics too much, and as you say, when he did let the team play a bit we looked a good outfit. Sadly that was not very often.

As for regressing defensively, I'm not so sure? The goals we conceded against Birmingham, Bolton, Man U and a fair few others were pretty bad defensive displays.......

[chaddyrovers]

The honest answer is I don't know......but did Sam pick the best players and mould them into a team? He didn;t have the players for a 451 when he first came into the club but continued to play with that formation. To be fair Kean is trying to do that and hopefully given some time will be able to do this.

When Big Sam first came to rovers, he played 4-4-2 for the season, unless we played the top 4 and Hull(which we won 2-1)

His first match team was:- Robinson, Ooijer, Samba, Nelsen, Warnock; Emerton, Dunn, Andrews, Pedersen; McCarthy, Roberts.

The reason he change his formation was to allow Dunn to play in the hole behind 1 striker. Dunn was top scorer last season and one of the reason was he was playing further forward and a free role and not have to be worry about tracking back.

[Steve Moss]

How many of those saying it was a mistake to sack Sam and appointing someone with no experience would have been delighted if we had appointed Shearer?

Not me. Shearer was a good striker. A good striker does not necessarily equate to being a good manager.

In my mind, one should build up to managing a PL team. Shearer should start in League 1, 2 or even the Championship (though I think even this would be a step too far), and establish his credentials. I think Kean was qualified to take over a League 1-2 team, or maybe Championship team (or Scottish) but leap frogging the process has done us, and perhaps him, no good. Where did he build, or was given the opportunity to build, a solid managerial skill set before being thrown into the blood soaked arena known as the PL?

Every managerial appointment is a gamble to some degree but it is one where the roll of the dice can be influenced. It need not be reliant on blind luck. Putting aside the naivety of letting a perfectly competent manager go mid-season, there were proven, experienced managers which could have been hired to replace him and maximized the possibility we'd stay up with a summer housecleaning to look forward too. We elected not to hire them. I'm still scratching my head over what thought may have gone into that decision making process. While I hope Kean (or Shearer, if that contingency had arisen) have every success if in charge of the Rovers, what track record do we point to which establishes that is a real possibility as opposed to a mere hope?

So far Kean has Liverpool to his credit. And its a big plus in my book. But he needs to start climbing the league table. We need 9+ points in the next 12 games. The time is fast approaching where we can no longer say with a straight face 'give him time'. Another loss or two and things will start to get desperate, both for Steve Kean and, more importantly, the Rovers. Whatever buffer he might have hoped to pick up the last few games has not materialized. In my opinion, the Newcastle match will, and should, make or break Kean for the balance of the season.

[OscarRaven]

Think this is right, although put together fairly quickly, PL records of last four managers during the first 9 games. Not a lot in it although you have to say Sam and Mark Hughes had much bigger jobs to do in thier first 10 games.

Mark Hughes* P9 W2 D5 L2 Pts 11

Paul Ince P9 W3 D3 L3 Pts 12

Big Sam P9 W3 D5 L1 Pts 14

Steve Kentaro P9 W3 D1 L5 Pts 10

*excludes Portsmouth game (win) as Tony Parkes was still in charge although I do remember him on the touchline during the second half.

[BRFC1995]

did'nt think he was doing well but had'nt realised it was 5 defeats in 9 considering the crapness of some of the teams we've played thats not looking good for the remaining 12 matches at all.

The blatent fact he's a puppet though does seem to make him un-fireable not the run of the mill set up in the heirarchy of our club and the suspision that some have agendas with more kentaro bias than rovers bias kind of suggests to me that barring relegation he is safe as houses.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Think this is right, although put together fairly quickly, PL records of last four managers during the first 9 games. Not a lot in it although you have to say Sam and Mark Hughes had much bigger jobs to do in thier first 10 games.

Mark Hughes* P9 W2 D5 L2 Pts 11

Paul Ince P9 W3 D3 L3 Pts 12

Big Sam P9 W3 D5 L1 Pts 14

Steve Kentaro P9 W3 D1 L5 Pts 10

*excludes Portsmouth game (win) as Tony Parkes was still in charge although I do remember him on the touchline during the second half.

Very interesting - though I would say in Kean's favour - that none of them took over the club in such turmoil caused by the new owners poor handling of the sacking of Sam. BTW - I am not pro-Kean (though he has impressed me in some aspects) - I just want him to succeed for Rovers sake - whereas some people just seem to want him to fail even if Rovers suffer in the process.

[John]

Plus you could say whilst beating Liverpool is always a coup (which it is), couldn't of played them at a better time - 2 of our wins coming from a team (WBA) who have just sacked their manager.

Too early of course to make an overall judgement on Kean.

[47er]

Very interesting - though I would say in Kean's favour - that none of them took over the club in such turmoil caused by the new owners poor handling of the sacking of Sam. BTW - I am not pro-Kean (though he has impressed me in some aspects) - I just want him to succeed for Rovers sake - whereas some people just seem to want him to fail even if Rovers suffer in the process.

Come off it! When Hughes took over from Souness we looked doomed to relegation. When Sam took over from Ince (remember him) we were in utter turmoil and 5

points from safety! When Kean took over we were comfortably in mid-table and he was promised substantial funds from new owners. The current situation is of his own making, born of his own mistakes.

And nobody on here wants him to fail, some of us worry he might, others just make up every possible excuse for him.

[bep]

Come off it! When Hughes took over from Souness we looked doomed to relegation. When Sam took over from Ince (remember him) we were in utter turmoil and 5

points from safety! When Kean took over we were comfortably in mid-table and he was promised substantial funds from new owners. The current situation is of his own making, born of his own mistakes.

And nobody on here wants him to fail, some of us worry he might, others just make up every possible excuse for him.

I think when Sam and Mark took control they where given the blessing of the press and media. Steve Kean has had to dodge terrible abuse while trying to keep a dignified stance and do a job of rallying the players and make bridges with the new owners in India ,with all due respect i think Sam and Mark had solely to concentrate on team affairs and that must put what Kean has achieved remarkable in my eyes.

[darwenblueswearehere]

One-off heavy defeat is irrelevant in the overall context - see the post above yours.

What a load of nonsense - the overall context of what? 9 games???

Check out Allardyce's results in the same 9 games last season, and you can swap any of the relegated teams for West Brom....no doubt you'll pick the Dingles as that gives you the most favourable comparison.

Kean's record is 10 points from the 9 games, so let's count Sam's:

West Ham (H) 0-0

Stoke (H) 0-0

Liverpool (H) 0-0

Spurs (H) 0-2

Dingles (H) 3-2

Sunderland (A) 1-2

Chelsea (A) 0-5

Wigan (A) 1-1

Dingles (A) 1-0

Totals: For 6, Against 12, Points 10

Kean's totals from the same games: For 12, Against 15, Points 10.

You're an embarrassing one trick pony mate!

[imy9]

That's a really interesting stat, very comparable set of results for Kean then based on that.

[Billy Castell]

I'm still slightly optimistic, though I hope he can stand up to Venky's/Anderson over transfer policies etc., and can get the team winning again.

[47er]

I think when Sam and Mark took control they where given the blessing of the press and media. Steve Kean has had to dodge terrible abuse while trying to keep a dignified stance and do a job of rallying the players and make bridges with the new owners in India ,with all due respect i think Sam and Mark had solely to concentrate on team affairs and that must put what Kean has achieved remarkable in my eyes.

"make bridges with the new owners'? That wasn't hard--they love him! So you rate criticism from the media as being more difficult to deal with for a manager than the actual situation of having your team in the bottom three and everyone believing we'd be relegated? Wierd!

How do you think Kean would have coped if he'd been given the job when we were in the relegation zone? Wouldn't have had a clue. Unfortunately we may find out.

[bep]

"make bridges with the new owners'? That wasn't hard--they love him! So you rate criticism from the media as being more difficult to deal with for a manager than the actual situation of having your team in the bottom three and everyone believing we'd be relegated? Wierd!

How do you think Kean would have coped if he'd been given the job when we were in the relegation zone? Wouldn't have had a clue. Unfortunately we may find out.

No what i said he had to rally players who according to certain people didn't want to play for the club and he had to travel to India stop all the bad media , don't recolect antbody else having to do that, and we where hardly in a good position when he took over three points of the drop zone if i remember having played more games.So not that weird!!!

[Blue blood]

Come off it! When Hughes took over from Souness we looked doomed to relegation. When Sam took over from Ince (remember him) we were in utter turmoil and 5

points from safety! When Kean took over we were comfortably in mid-table and he was promised substantial funds from new owners. The current situation is of his own making, born of his own mistakes.

And nobody on here wants him to fail, some of us worry he might, others just make up every possible excuse for him.

You posted what I wanted to put. In fairness Kean has had a lot of negative press and an unsettled dressing room to contend with, but then both Hughes and Sam had off field problems too. Hughes had the hurdle of overcoming the mate syndrome from his time here, whilst Sam had to keep us up on a budget that a championship team would be ashamed of.

I really do hope Kean comes good and is his own man and not a puppet. The way we've slung out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak, with our change in style however worries me that this is not the case - or at the least he is under very heavy influence which cannot be good for the club.

[47er]

No what i said he had to rally players who according to certain people didn't want to play for the club and he had to travel to India stop all the bad media , don't recolect antbody else having to do that, and we where hardly in a good position when he took over three points of the drop zone if i remember having played more games.So not that weird!!!

I'd like to see the table from 12/12/11 to verify that but can't find it. Anyone help? The sorts of things you are talking about seem quite minor to me cf staring relegation in the face. Bad media-----we were hammered under Hughes for our style of play, didn't worry him. So still weird!

[jim mk2]

What a load of nonsense - the overall context of what? 9 games???

Sam's overall record - do I have to spell it out for you word by word, letter by letter ?

There are some thickos on here but you take the biscuit.

What's your preference, Bourbons or Hobnobs ?

[darwenblueswearehere]

Sam's overall record - do I have to spell it out for you word by word, letter by letter ?

There are some thickos on here but you take the biscuit.

What's your preference, Bourbons or Hobnobs ?

When you're making a comparison you have to take Kean's 'overall record' of 9 games into account. Judge him when he's had sufficient time to be judged, and on his own merits.

The only true comparison you can actually make thus far (e.g. the 9 games I have highlighted) blows your one-eyed nonsense out of the water.

Believe me I'll be the first to get stuck into Kean if it becomes necessary. If being the operative word.

We failed to score in 4 out of those 5 home games under Sam - that was 1600 miles for me to travel with bugger all to talk about in terms of football action, so forgive me if I don't see his reign through the same rose-tinted glasses that you do.

I notice the mods removed what I thought was quite a clever biscuit reference involving Viscounts as they thought it was a 'personal insult'. I hope they do the same with your 'thicko' remark. I may be many things but thick is certainly not one of them Jim.

I'd like to see the table from 12/12/11 to verify that but can't find it. Anyone help? The sorts of things you are talking about seem quite minor to me cf staring relegation in the face. Bad media-----we were hammered under Hughes for our style of play, didn't worry him. So still weird!

Don't think that one's available yet 47er

[Dan]

I want Kean to do well. I'm liking his views on how the game should be played. Though I worry that he doesn't seem to have a plan B(though it could be argued that neither did Sam).

I just worry that if we end up dropping down the league, Kean's lack of experience might be a telling factor. If players heads start to drop, will he know how to handle it? For all Sam's flaws, he knew all about relegation battles and had experience of surviving them. If we'd employed a more experienced number two to guide Kean I'd feel much more at ease. Who does he turn to for advice? He is still learning and it can be a steep learning curve in this league.

[jim mk2]

When you're making a comparison you have to take Kean's 'overall record' of 9 games into account. Judge him when he's had sufficient time to be judged, and on his own merits.

You've missed the point again. If you read the post I was referring to the 7-1 defeat in the context of Sam's overall record. This is not difficult to understand.

[patrickvalery]

Those stats don't count for much. Each incoming manager had to deal with various different problems or situations. It is important to remember that Kean is a rookie. Whether we like it or not, he is learning as he goes. Also notbody else on that list had to deal with such in house mutiny and smooth over the transition of new ownership. Equally, he inherited a side sitting pretty safely in mid table and didn't have the pressures of lifting a relegation bound squad and turning around their fortunes ala Sam and Hughes.

I make no secret of liking the bloke. I think the side has shown remarkable signs of improvement at times. Saturdays result showed we need to find a better balance, but its too early to criticise. I think, all things considered, we are doing nicely under Kean. My big concern under his stewardship was how he dealt with any playing staff who may challenge his authority and how he performed in the transfer market. In regards to the former it was no surprise to see Diouf leave on loan. The latter, well, the jury is still out. I would hope Jones and RSC would have a significant impact on the remainder of this season and Formica and Rochina get some game time and experience ready to hit the ground running next season.

[darwenblueswearehere]

You've missed the point again. If you read the post I was referring to the 7-1 defeat in the context of Sam's overall record. This is not difficult to understand.

'The point' is the futility of making any kind of a comparison between the two after every match. That is the whole essence of the argument. This is certainly not difficult to understand either. There, now you've had it spelled out for you you can crawl back to Dingle land, or wherever it is you purport to come from.

[47er]

Don't think that one's available yet 47er

Ha------ LoL!