[Archived] Steve Kean

[Amo]

Is the clue here 'donkey' in the form of a bald headed man from sweaty sock land promoted on the back of an advisors personal commision fee.

Splitscreens post highlights the guys poor CV so how on earth was this bald headed coach ever appointed to lead Blackburn Rovers ?

My how standards have dropped at the club in such a short space of time.

and the crowd yelled... WE WANT A MANAGER.

What's his baldness got to do with anything, you fascist?

[JAL]

What's his baldness got to do with anything, you fascist?

Nothing ! you was too quick Topman. Ive deleted that out.

[MeanGreenMachine]

10 games in and this crap is being posted. It makes me embarressed to be associated with the club let alone support it. The bloke has picked up a squad where half the players keep picking up injuries and tried to change us from footballing juggarnauts to a footballing side. All that and its his first crack at management. Pathetic, some of you need to take your 'support' ###### elsewhere.

[JAL]

10 games in and this crap is being posted. It makes me embarressed to be associated with the club let alone support it. The bloke has picked up a squad where half the players keep picking up injuries and tried to change us from footballing juggarnauts to a footballing side. All that and its his first crack at management. Pathetic, some of you need to take your 'support' ###### elsewhere.

On your bike then !

[Majiball]

My my what a little charmer. You've quoted the reason! The comparison you were making is flawed because Sam took over a team deep in relegation trouble, next to bottom and 5 points from safety.

By comparison, Kean took over a side that was comfortably above the relegation zone with a promising set of fixtures to come. Logically, Kean should have done better than Allardyce in his first 10 fixtures but did worse. He even did worse than Ince.

Is that clear enough for you?

Again you may want to apply that first line to yourself and your reply to me in the first place, but you'll ignore that point as you have ignored all of mine and focused on your solitary one.

You can harp on about league position all you want but the parallels between a manager who has had 18 months to get his ethos up and running against a man with less than 3 months is 'useless' to quote yourself. I see far more similarities between there initial ten games than Sam 70th odd against Keans 1st, I don't see any logic in that. This type of comparison will always have flaws its qualitative not quantitative so you can't just dismiss something out of hand because of one flaw when there's so much more to consider than the league table. Yes they were in different league positions, but neither were safe when they took over.

below is a list of some of the reasons I believe your supposed insurmountable issue is surmountable.

1.) Both have just walked in the door.

2.) Both want to change the whole way we play.

3.) Both took over mid-season.

4.) Both have had to assemble backroom teams.

5.) Both have taken over a team not safe.

6.) Both have a limited squad and funds.

7.) Both had to lift the squad (albeit from differing aspects).

8.) Both had to deal with 'difficult' team members.

9.) Both have had a 'cloud' over them when they arrived.

10.) Both have come in in difficult circumstances.

Point two could be expanded into many more as I'm sure any coach on here could tell you, changing the way you play from top to toe isn't an easy or short job. But hey lets ignore those points and just say 'it's useless because one was 5 points adrift and the other was safe' (how is not having 40 points safe????) despite so many comparables.

Sam's first 10 games:

20 December 2008 Stoke [H] 3-0 Benni McCarthy, Jason Roberts, Benni McCarthy 12th

26 December 2008 Sunderland [A] 0-0 16th

28 December 2008 Manchester City [H] 2-2 Benni McCarthy, Jason Roberts 10th

5 January 2009 Blyth Spartans [A] 1-0 Carlos Villanueva Who????

17 January 2009 Newcastle [H] 3-0 Benni McCarthy, Jason Roberts, Jason Roberts Relegated

24 January 2009 Sunderland A.F.C. [A] 0-0 16th

28 January 2009 Bolton [H] 2-2 Stephen Warnock, Benni McCarthy 13th

31 January 2009 Middlesbrough [A] 0-0 Relegated

5 February 2009 Sunderland A.F.C. [H] 2-1 Aaron Mokoena, Benni McCarthy 16th

7 February 2009 Aston Villa [H] 0-2 6th

14 February 2009 Coventry City [H] 2-2 Roque Santa Cruz, Chris Samba Championship

Well those fixtures are riddled with chelsea's, Arsenals, liverpool's aren't they?

It's not that different to the ones Kean has had to face and yet you use that as a stick to beat him? Kean has had Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham and some easy games on top as well so really they both came in with some easy fixtures coming up.

Sam has 18 points, Kean 14 points (FA cup results were awarded the same points as league, regardless of opposition), so when you consider Blyth he's not doing that badly really as Kean got QPR to Sam's Coventry. Ince by the way comes in at 17, so does that make him almost as good a manger as Sam? by your logic it does if Kean is worse than Ince for the same reason. Alas in reality as we all know Ince wasn't up to much but after 10 games he's almost as good as Sam by your reckoning.

So what does that tell us?

It tells us we can't really judge after 10 games whether he's going to be a hit or not.

[47er]

Again you may want to apply that first line to yourself and your reply to me in the first place, but you'll ignore that point as you have ignored all of mine and focused on your solitary one.

You can harp on about league position all you want but the parallels between a manager who has had 18 months to get his ethos up and running against a man with less than 3 months is 'useless' to quote yourself. I see far more similarities between there initial ten games than Sam 70th odd against Keans 1st, I don't see any logic in that. This type of comparison will always have flaws its qualitative not quantitative so you can't just dismiss something out of hand because of one flaw when there's so much more to consider than the league table. Yes they were in different league positions, but neither were safe when they took over.

below is a list of some of the reasons I believe your supposed insurmountable issue is surmountable.

1.) Both have just walked in the door.

2.) Both want to change the whole way we play.

3.) Both took over mid-season.

4.) Both have had to assemble backroom teams.

5.) Both have taken over a team not safe.

6.) Both have a limited squad and funds.

7.) Both had to lift the squad (albeit from differing aspects).

8.) Both had to deal with 'difficult' team members.

9.) Both have had a 'cloud' over them when they arrived.

10.) Both have come in in difficult circumstances.

Point two could be expanded into many more as I'm sure any coach on here could tell you, changing the way you play from top to toe isn't an easy or short job. But hey lets ignore those points and just say 'it's useless because one was 5 points adrift and the other was safe' (how is not having 40 points safe????) despite so many comparables.

Sam's first 10 games:

20 December 2008 Stoke [H] 3-0 Benni McCarthy, Jason Roberts, Benni McCarthy 12th

26 December 2008 Sunderland [A] 0-0 16th

28 December 2008 Manchester City [H] 2-2 Benni McCarthy, Jason Roberts 10th

5 January 2009 Blyth Spartans [A] 1-0 Carlos Villanueva Who????

17 January 2009 Newcastle [H] 3-0 Benni McCarthy, Jason Roberts, Jason Roberts Relegated

24 January 2009 Sunderland A.F.C. [A] 0-0 16th

28 January 2009 Bolton [H] 2-2 Stephen Warnock, Benni McCarthy 13th

31 January 2009 Middlesbrough [A] 0-0 Relegated

5 February 2009 Sunderland A.F.C. [H] 2-1 Aaron Mokoena, Benni McCarthy 16th

7 February 2009 Aston Villa [H] 0-2 6th

14 February 2009 Coventry City [H] 2-2 Roque Santa Cruz, Chris Samba Championship

Well those fixtures are riddled with chelsea's, Arsenals, liverpool's aren't they?

It's not that different to the ones Kean has had to face and yet you use that as a stick to beat him? Kean has had Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham and some easy games on top as well so really they both came in with some easy fixtures coming up.

Sam has 18 points, Kean 14 points (FA cup results were awarded the same points as league, regardless of opposition), so when you consider Blyth he's not doing that badly really as Kean got QPR to Sam's Coventry. Ince by the way comes in at 17, so does that make him almost as good a manger as Sam? by your logic it does if Kean is worse than Ince for the same reason. Alas in reality as we all know Ince wasn't up to much but after 10 games he's almost as good as Sam by your reckoning.

So what does that tell us?

It tells us we can't really judge after 10 games whether he's going to be a hit or not.

Majiball----I only replied to you because you directly asked me a question. And then I kept it brief. You can have this debate to yourself, I think its all been said.

Only one point matters to me--a few weeks ago I had no fear of relegation--now I do, despite the team being "strengthened".

[thenodrog]

Plain fact remains that Allardyce should still be in charge. There was simply no reason to change. We weren't in any danger, we were going well and in front of last years points equivalent total, there was some freedom in the transfer market.

Trouble is imo he didn't suit the poorly hidden agenda of the Venkeys equivalent of Grima Wormtongue.

[47er]

its his first crack at management. .

That being the problem...........

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Plain fact remains that Allardyce should still be in charge. There was simply no reason to change. We weren't in any danger, we were going well and in front of last years points equivalent total, there was some freedom in the transfer market.

Trouble is imo he didn't suit the poorly hidden agenda of the Venkeys equivalent of Grima Wormtongue.

I'd love to know what you think their agenda is - IMO they want to see Rovers playing more attractive football - to make it more appealing to sponsors etc. Would Sam have delivered this ? even with investment - history would say not. Would Sam have delivered a higher league placing than Kean - probable, though by no means definite.

I think you have highlighted why they did it - "We weren't in any danger" - I think they saw an opportunity to risk a talented coach, even though he was untried as a manager. I hope they were right - both in the assumption the club could survive a little turmoil this season for the longer term benefit - and that Kean is the man to produce attractive football without going the way of WBA etc.

Funny thing is - if they had sacked Sam, and appointed a known manager - I am sure there wouldn't have been the out cry there has (btw I didn't agree with the timing of Sam's sacking - though can appreciate the possible thoughts behind it). Kean, because of his association with Kentaro, is seen as a "yes" man. Nothing I have observed so far would suggest that - I'll reserve judgement whether he is actually the right man for the job until the next three games (he will have plenty of time to sort tactics for these matches).

[chaddyrovers]

This is the problem tho isn't it becuase if they had replace him with a very good manager like Martin Jol or Jurgen Knilsmann or Sven, then I don't think most fans would have a problem. But the problem is the have put a first team coach in charge with NO experience of being a manager. We don't know what the owners have seen in Kean yet or what Kentaro/SEM have said to the owners about Kean and about the way he would play his style of football.

I am willing to give him the next three games to see what the results are. He is trying to play better football but the problem is we are letting too many goals in. Kean has got to picked his best players and a formation and tactics that are going to work. He has got 2 weeks to sort it out.

I would personally drop this diamond shape midfield and play a 4-4-2. And get the ball into the box and create chances for the strikers. Which we didn't do in the last game. Also think Kean get to come up with a plan B which he seems to lack!!! I know that John Jensen favour a diamond shape midfield but it doesn't work in the premier league that often.

[Steve Moss]

That being the problem...........

Funny thing is - if they had sacked Sam, and appointed a known manager - I am sure there wouldn't have been the out cry there has (btw I didn't agree with the timing of Sam's sacking - though can appreciate the possible thoughts behind it).

Bingo. If the had sacked Sam and appointed an experienced, competent manager, I would not be as stressed, and as vocal, as I am currently.

What was the logic of the high risk gamble associated with hiring Kean?

[rebelmswar]

Bingo. If the had sacked Sam and appointed an experienced, competent manager, I would not be as stressed, and as vocal, as I am currently.

What was the logic of the high risk gamble associated with hiring Kean?

Why does anyone, anywhere, at anytime put a grossly under qualified novice in charge of anything?

To do what they are told. Period.

[RovertheHill]

I didn't want Sam removed when he was and I certainly wasn't happy with Kean being appointed, and I fear he could go the same way as Kidd. Experience counts for a lot when things are not going well.

However, I don't get this "yes-man" barb? This is not meant to be a dig at Allardyce but can anybody tell me a single instance where Sam took the Trust to task publicly? Does that make him a yes-man? I don't think so.

[Majiball]

Majiball----I only replied to you because you directly asked me a question. And then I kept it brief. You can have this debate to yourself, I think its all been said.

Only one point matters to me--a few weeks ago I had no fear of relegation--now I do, despite the team being "strengthened".

Never count your chickens before they are hatched.

If you don't have 40 points only a fool would think they are safe in football.

[47er]

I didn't want Sam removed when he was and I certainly wasn't happy with Kean being appointed, and I fear he could go the same way as Kidd. Experience counts for a lot when things are not going well.

However, I don't get this "yes-man" barb? This is not meant to be a dig at Allardyce but can anybody tell me a single instance where Sam took the Trust to task publicly? Does that make him a yes-man? I don't think so.

He did put pressure on them by complaining about lack of transfer funds. At the time of Salgado's signing, JW had told him no more cash but Allardyce went public saying "one more signing and that was it" or words to that effect. I think you can assume more was said behind the scenes. Certainly not a yes-man.

Never count your chickens before they are hatched.

If you don't have 40 points only a fool would think they are safe in football.

Most people on here thought we were safe under Sam and that we would get to 40 points well before the end of the season. Guess we'll just have to put off that particular celebration for a while.

[thenodrog]

Bingo. If the had sacked Sam and appointed an experienced, competent manager,

Bingo! You've just described Allardyce perfectly.

[OscarRaven]

It tells us we can't really judge after 10 games whether he's going to be a hit or not.

But you can after half a season? We did with Ince and with good reason! Ince's record is about to become pretty stagnant so hopefully Kean can put some distance between himself and Paul Ince over the next few weeks... if he doesn't then I personally think the comparisons are valid after half a season and would judge him a success or failure accordingly.

Anyway, onwards and upwards ... good football, time for a bit of defensive steel get some points on the board and then we can start the 'New Brazil Experiment' for real.

[RovertheHill]

He did put pressure on them by complaining about lack of transfer funds. At the time of Salgado's signing, JW had told him no more cash but Allardyce went public saying "one more signing and that was it" or words to that effect. I think you can assume more was said behind the scenes. Certainly not a yes-man.

I don't understand how people can be so certain one set of things went on behind the scenes with Sam and be equally certain that behind the scenes Kean just does what he's told?

[chris]

Ince got sacked yet he got the Blackburn job because he did an excellent job for MK Dons.

Steve Kean got the job because he found a golden ticket in his chocolate bar.

I think Kean needed a better start but still be intertesting to see the next few games, he is certainly "buying" the players support nicely.

[John]

I do think Kean has had a decent run of fixtures, particuarly at the start of his tenure.

Also playing a Liverpool team in serious decline at that time (plus under Hodgson) helped - the Pool victory was a massive boost for him/us.

It will be interesting to see over the coming matches whether he is willing to be flexible over formation/tactics, i.e. always playing 2 strikers, playing with no right midfielder, diamond formation etc.

In his own mind he has to be clear about how he wants to do things - one moment he is telling the press we will always concede goals, the next post match he is saying we are too loose/open as a team.

[K-Hod]

I think it's clear to all what the problems are, and they've been discussed to death on here, and other messageboards featuring Rovers! (With good reason)

Let's hope he does identify these errors and tries to correct them. If I had one criticism of Allardyce (long ball aside-which was blown out of proportion), it would be his reluctance to change things, and a lack of a Plan B.

[47er]

I don't understand how people can be so certain one set of things went on behind the scenes with Sam and be equally certain that behind the scenes Kean just does what he's told?

I never commented on Kean.But what you have said does appear to fit the facts.

[Dan]

I think it's clear to all what the problems are, and they've been discussed to death on here, and other messageboards featuring Rovers! (With good reason)

Let's hope he does identify these errors and tries to correct them. If I had one criticism of Allardyce (long ball aside-which was blown out of proportion), it would be his reluctance to change things, and a lack of a Plan B.

The lack of 'Plan B' is also an issue with Kean so far, though I used to pull my hair out when Sam was trying tge same thing every match, that obviousyl wasn't working. I remember, around December 2009 seeing the line ups before every match and knowing what to expect. The match against City was when I had finally had enough of Sam. He seemed to finally change things around after the second leg of the league cup semi. I thought we'd turned a corner, but this season started going the same way. Though performances were improving(bar the odd slip up). The performance against Chelsea was especially encouraging.

The main worry is if Kean is experienced enough to know how to change things. If he doesn't change things quickly, we'll start to drop down the table very quickly. I'm

not sure a 'rookie' manager like Kean is suitable for a relegation battle.

I like Kean, he seems like he gas his head screwed on correctly, but appointing him was Russian roullette. It's a huge gamble by the our owners and I'm not sure many Premierleague chairmen would have made the same gamble.

I'm worried, but not as much as I was under Ince. That could be partially down the way Kean conducts himself to the media. You know, he doesn't say anythink wrong, you know, you've gotta laugh though.

[Kelbo]

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Kean accepted the job and just what his brief actually was, if it was, lets try and play a more attractive brand of football, then thats not a bad brief just as long as Kean stated that this would not be instantaneous, it would take time and build on what we have got (ie solid defence)

I think Majiball quite rightly commented, Wenger at Arsenal (and like them or not, they are the purest footballing side in The Premier League) he built on a very solid back four, its taken years to get to that level.

If our Manager feels he can do this quickly to satisfy the new owners, I would honestly say he is misguided, the time to really change your style is pre season, you can work at it without the results being too important, now is not really the time, unless we assure our Prem Status for another season, to change too much. Again as Majiball rightly stated, information overload, it needs to be done gradually.

[JAL]

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Kean accepted the job and just what his brief actually was, if it was, lets try and play a more attractive brand of football, then thats not a bad brief just as long as Kean stated that this would not be instantaneous, it would take time and build on what we have got (ie solid defence)

I think Majiball quite rightly commented, Wenger at Arsenal (and like them or not, they are the purest footballing side in The Premier League) he built on a very solid back four, its taken years to get to that level.

If our Manager feels he can do this quickly to satisfy the new owners, I would honestly say he is misguided, the time to really change your style is pre season, you can work at it without the results being too important, now is not really the time, unless we assure our Prem Status for another season, to change too much. Again as Majiball rightly stated, information overload, it needs to be done gradually.

You can talk till the cows come home all about tactics and style of play, because they mean nothing, if you dont have the BEST players to implement a plan.

Just ask Sir Alex Ferguson if you're in any doubt. The question is does Stephen Kean and Jerome Andersen have the know how ? for me thats a definite NO.