[Archived] Steve Kean

[MeanGreenMachine]

Is that because you have an in depth knowledge of the club and the individuals you speak of?

Or is it because your a two bit fan analysing every single friggin detail trying to trip up the club at any oppotunity despite the bloke being in the job for a whole 10 games.

Im glad you judge so quickly, it saves alot of time. Because every single success out there has hit the ground running and been amazing from the off?

Total joker.

[JAL]

Is that because you have an in depth knowledge of the club and the individuals you speak of?

Or is it because your a two bit fan analysing every single friggin detail trying to trip up the club at any oppotunity despite the bloke being in the job for a whole 10 games.

Im glad you judge so quickly, it saves alot of time. Because every single success out there has hit the ground running and been amazing from the off?

Total joker.

Dont get involved in things you know very little about

[old darwen blue]

Dont get involved in things you know very little about

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

[joey_big_nose]

You can talk till the cows come home all about tactics and style of play, because they mean nothing, if you dont have the BEST players to implement a plan.

Just ask Sir Alex Ferguson if you're in any doubt. The question is does Stephen Kean and Jerome Andersen have the know how ? for me thats a definite NO.

I think you have kind of undermned your own point there. Alex Ferguson has made a long career out of getting the best out of his players. Sure there have been the truely outstanding like Scholes, Giggs, Rooney, Berbatov etc. but he gets a huge amount out of more modest performers like O'Shea, Park, Gibson, Carrick, Anderson and Nani. Player for player I would say United have lagged behind Chelsea and Arsenal (and now I would say Spurs and Man City probably have a better raw squad) in quality for a number of years but they continue to compete through Ferguson's man management and tactics.

[MeanGreenMachine]

Dont get involved in things you know very little about

Sorry i didnt realise i was talking too, i mean you must be mystic meg? Or Derek Acorah? You some how have a sixth sense and can predict the future, its truly amazing.

Or maybe, just maybe, you know jackshit and just enjoy ripping to shreds a professional managers credientials after 10 games.

Your have upgraded yourself from joker to deluded joker with a delusionsion of grandeur.

[thenodrog]

professional manager

Interesting you call him that

[MeanGreenMachine]

Can't you read how pathetic that sounds? Your judging him after 10 games were we have had a real mixed bag of results, im just glad the people who have the power dont share the same attitude.

[Mattyblue]

Can't you read how pathetic that sounds? Your judging him after 10 games were we have had a real mixed bag of results, im just glad the people who have the power dont share the same attitude.

I havent judged him, he is obviously learning his trade as a manager, however we have been down this road before and we shouldn't be taking these risks.

[chris]

Can't you read how pathetic that sounds? Your judging him after 10 games were we have had a real mixed bag of results, im just glad the people who have the power dont share the same attitude.

You speak for yourself stop calling people pathetic and jokers. What do you expect from Jal.

We went from 1st in the league to 20th with an unexperienced manager.

We got relegated and without Jack's money probably would have fallen a part, why? because of an experienced manager.

But you appear from nowhere and start calling someone a joker because you would rather wait until, when its too late, are we safe?

Now I personally am willing to wait even though I am dead concerned, but I still respect other people concerned about a record as bad as Ince's from a manager who should have never got the job.

And I'm glad you don't run the club, I am sure John Williams would have never hired him, he has lived with the Harford and Kidd nightmare.

[MeanGreenMachine]

We went from 1st in the league to 20th with an unexperienced manager.

Sorry i must of missed this time we it has happened. From what i gather we have had a mixed bag of results but have still picked up points. Do you always judge situations as to what happened more than 10 years ago in a sport that has evolved as much as football.

We got relegated and without Jack's money probably would have fallen a part, why? because of an experienced manager.

Again, are we in the bottom 3? Have we picked up 0 points?

But you appear from nowhere and start calling someone a joker because you would rather wait until, when its too late, are we safe?

Id rather give the bloke a fair crack of the whip...

Now I personally am willing to wait even though I am dead concerned, but I still respect other people concerned about a record as bad as Ince's from a manager who should have never got the job.

I think everyone is concerned because the performances in the wigan and newcastle games wernt good enough. I can respect opinions, ones which arnt snide and questioning a bloke ability before his seat in the dug out is barely warm.

And I'm glad you don't run the club, I am sure John Williams would have never hired him, he has lived with the Harford and Kidd nightmare.

I dont care what john williams would or wouldnt have done, as he didnt have the choice and is no longer part of this club.

Im all for decent discussion and i appreciate people are concerned. But when people come out and talk as if there opinion is fact, they 'know' this that and the other and make snidey comments about the manager who hasnt done half as bad as what some people are making out, yeh it does rile me.

[chris]

May 1995 BLackburn won the league, Harford an unexperienced manager took over the Champions, by october 1996 we were 20th in the league he was sacked.

If you don't want to learn lessons from the past be my guess, I not going to argue it, we will have to agree to disagree.

Anyway no offense you are not up for having a sensible discussion, if Jal or I or anyone else see's different to you, you'll label us a joker or beyond a joker, whatever else.

You have gone way over board in your post on this thread, nobody killed any one.

[BPF]

All is well, I promise.

[chaddyrovers]

All is well, I promise.

What do you mean BPF? is it good news or bad news?

[imy9]

That sounds ominous BPF!

[RibbleValleyRover]

It's coming to the point now when he has to pick up some points and fast. If Rovers lose the next two games and at the same time a few of the sides below us get on a bit of a winning run and close the gap he could be in some serious trouble.

Forget what the owners have said about him staying until the end of the season and that he is unsackable at this moment in time. If it looks like we are going down I expect them to to make a change. Lose the next two games and I think he could be near that point.

[Steve Moss]

Sorry i must of missed this time we it has happened. From what i gather we have had a mixed bag of results but have still picked up points. Do you always judge situations as to what happened more than 10 years ago in a sport that has evolved as much as football.

Here's a link which lays out the situation fairly well. http://www.statto.com/football/teams/blackburn-rovers

We have the worst away defense in the league. Though I would like to take comfort in having the 7th best away attack in the league, the end result is that our overall away form is 19th in the league.

Considering that our next two matches are away with teams on better form than us, exactly where do you see our next points coming from?

Again, are we in the bottom 3? Have we picked up 0 points?

We have picked up 11 points in 10 matches under Kean. 10 matches > 25% of the season. How long is long enough in your opinion? And will that provide any potential Kean replacement sufficient time to safeguard the Rovers, in the event your faith in Kean is determined to be misplaced?

Id rather give the bloke a fair crack of the whip...

I'm more interested in safeguarding the Rovers. Kean is not the issue. The Rovers league position is.

And to be clear, I think the Rovers will survive this season. I do not believe that will be due to any expertise on the part of Kean, but rather the weakness of our competitors. But if he can rack up 18+ points in the matches remaining I will allow myself to be convinced.

I dont care what john williams would or wouldnt have done. . .

John's opinion may legally be irrelevant at this point but then so is the opinion of every poster on this board. In my presumably irrelevant opinion, JW is a man who made a career out of safeguarding the Rovers. The fact that Venkys didn't see an effective role for him, an elder statesman in the world of English football, is not reassuring to me. The fact that JW, a man of known integrity, has largely kept his silence and not spoken strongly in support of Venkys is more so, in my view. I am concerned and believe that concern is not irrational for a variety of reasons. I'm willing, and hoping, to be proved wrong.

I'm of the opinion that it is the obligation of Venkys to reassure us fans. They need to prove themselves to us, not vice-versa. Trust and faith are earned, they are not free. What have they done to establish that they are deserving of our trust?

[Rovers Gals]

more like cock- croach than coach . he is just not up to job I'm thinking ? like to be proven wrong ! he does not ooze a strong leadership quality to me . have you heard of puppet master ? yes man.

[MeanGreenMachine]

"May 1995 BLackburn won the league, Harford an unexperienced manager took over the Champions, by october 1996 we were 20th in the league he was sacked.

If you don't want to learn lessons from the past be my guess, I not going to argue it, we will have to agree to disagree."

By all means learn lessons from the past, that's not the case I'm arguing. What I am saying is the relevance of the past is miles apart with modern day football. Alot in football has changed over the last 16 years. We can't broadly slap down something that happened the best part of 2 decades ago to what would happen now.

"Anyway no offense you are not up for having a sensible discussion, if Jal or I or anyone else see's different to you, you'll label us a joker or beyond a joker, whatever else."

Sensible discussion is fine, its what we are all here for. Its the snide comments about the management what riles me.

"You have gone way over board in your post on this thread, nobody killed any one."

I suggest you take a look back if you want to see people going over the top mate.

Cheers for the reply Steve, a few points.

"We have the worst away defense in the league. Though I would like to take comfort in having the 7th best away attack in the league, the end result is that our overall away form is 19th in the league."

Can that all be tarred to Kean? Though i think he has been tactically naive at times, the players need to take a look at themselves because Samba seems to want to ship goals in of late.

onsidering that our next two matches are away with teams on better form than us, exactly where do you see our next points coming from?

I see your point, but who has been able to predict the league this season? Teams are pulling results out of the hat all the time. Lets not right them off just yet?

"We have picked up 11 points in 10 matches under Kean. 10 matches > 25% of the season. How long is long enough in your opinion? And will that provide allow any potential Kean replacement sufficient time to safeguard the Rovers, in the event your faith in Kean is determined to be misplaced?"

Well Ince got 17 matches was it? I don't know how long it is, but I think all we can do is sit back and enjoy the ride till the end of the season because the management won't be changed.

I think all this talk of impending doom is a little short sighted when you look at the clubs around us. Birmingham and Everton are just as inconsistent as us at the moment. Wolves, West Ham and Wigan are poor teams and will be in and around the bottom and WBA and Blackpool are both dropping like stones. Id be much more concerned being a fan of the other clubs.

"I'm more interested in safeguarding the Rovers. Kean is not the issue. The Rovers league position is."

I think we all are, but the two go hand in hand don't you agree?

"And to be clear, I think the Rovers will survive this season. I do not believe that will be due to any expertise on the part of Kean, but rather the weakness of our competitors. But if he can rack up 18+ points in the matches remaining I will allow myself to be convinced."

Which is what I've said above really. I'm also yet to be convinced by him and people should discuss where they believe he went wrong its just comments like...

more like cock- croach than coach . he is just not up to job I'm thinking ? like to be proven wrong ! he does not ooze a strong leadership quality to me . have you heard of puppet master ? yes man.

When that has no basis whatsoever bar hearsay and guesswork.

"John's opinion may legally be irrelevant at this point but then so is the opinion of every poster on this board. In my presumably irrelevant opinion, JW is a man who made a career out of safeguarding the Rovers. The fact that Venkys didn't see an effective role for him, an elder statesman in the world of English football, is not reassuring to me. The fact that JW, a man of known integrity, has largely kept his silence and not spoken strongly in support of Venkys is more so, in my view. I an concerned and believe that concern is not irrational for a variety of reasons. I'm willing, and hoping, to be proved wrong."

Don't get me wrong I would of loved to have kept JW at the club in some capacity, but things are changing at the club and like 99% of the businesses out there when there is a takeover the new owners bring their own people in.

"I'm of the opinion that it is the obligation of Venkys to reassure us fans. They need to prove themselves to us, not vice-versa. Trust and faith are earned, they are not free. What have they done to establish that they are deserving of our trust?"

Make no mistake their PR so far has been naive and shoddy to say the least (one would of thought the 'expert' Anderson would of advised them a little better there). But deserve some credit for shelling out 40million on a dead duck in terms of revenue and fan base.

Now time for a brew

[Steve Moss]

^ All fair points, MeanGreenMachine.

Though I believe Kean, Jensen and Anderson's positions are not as secure as would like to be made out. Results matter, especially when we have owners with ambition and pride. It is that ambition and pride which I'm hoping carries us through.

[chaddyrovers]

I think the owners might get rid of SK and JJ in the summer if we are close to get relegation. The owners wasn't execpting us to be involve in the scrap to stay up.

SK looks tactical clueless. When we need to change formation or tactic we don't. He doesn't know his best 11 or his best striking partnership.

Since he has been manager we have had 4 different system. The 3-5-2(played against stoke), 4-4-2(played against Liverpool and west ham), 4-5-1(played against WBA and Sunderland), 4-1-2-1-2(played since JJ has come in as number 2)

We always knew under BS that we was going to play 4-5-1 or 4-4-2. (With the odd execption when we played Newcastle and Spurs with a 5-4-1)

[John]

Whilst I agree with some of your points, it is still too early to make any finite judgements either way on Kean.

I do think there are some worrying signs though, for example IMO, the make-up of the backroom team (assistance & coach) who seem to have little experience too - are these staff capable of nuturing/deveoping young players plus ensuring the team finishes high up the table?

Really hope we manage to pick up some points soon as if confidence drops, the management team will be tested to the limit.

[chaddyrovers]

Whilst I agree with some of your points, it is still too early to make any finite judgements either way on Kean.

I do think there are some worrying signs though, for example IMO, the make-up of the backroom team (assistance & coach) who seem to have little experience too - are these staff capable of nuturing/deveoping young players plus ensuring the team finishes high up the table?

Really hope we manage to pick up some points soon as if confidence drops, the management team will be tested to the limit.

That been my point about Kean backroom staff. JJ has never been a coach in the PL but has in spain which is very different. IB was reserve team coach so no PL experience.

we need a coach with PL experience like Ray Wilkins, Terry Venables or Steve Round(everton number 2) to help him and come up with ideas. All good managers have a excellent number 2. Fergie does, Mourinho did, Wenger does, Moyes does and so on.

I think that The Owners will look at the manager situation in the summer to see if there is anybody out there who will come to rovers who is BETTER than Kean. I know who I would like take over as manager if Kean does not make a success of it. But like all football fans if Kean was to beat Man Utd and Man City and rovers finish mid-table then the fans would be delighted with that. And the fans would give him a chance next season and pre-season would allow him to put his stamp on the team and allow him to bring in his own players aswell as the owners preference for a marquee signing.

[broadsword]

we need a coach with PL experience like Ray Wilkins, Terry Venables or Steve Round(everton number 2) to help him and come up with ideas. All good managers have a excellent number 2.

But Steve Kean used to be similar to those. You might as well demote Kean and bring in Wilkins as manager.

The whole thing's flawed, he's not a manager at all.

[Mercer]

Many of the issues being debated on this MB, IMO, are the resultant of a credibility issue over Kean.

As a newly appointed PL manager, some would say foisted upon the supporters and players in dubious circumstances, not surprisingly, he is struggling to command the respect of many supporters and, IMO, some of the players, with a series of new contracts, arguably, helping the club to 'keep the lid' on things.

Maybe, the perceived folly (replacing a highly experienced and proven manager and assistant with a 'novice' and inexperienced PL back-up team in mid season) is now starting to unfold.

Many supporters anticipate a bumpy ride for the rest of the season - lets just hope that it's ultimately not a crash landing.

Despite our new owners having stated that Kean is at the helm for the next two and a half years, I am waiting for them to blink, especially if our next three matches yield little or no return

[LeChuck]

Since he has been manager we have had 4 different system. The 3-5-2(played against stoke), 4-4-2(played against Liverpool and west ham), 4-5-1(played against WBA and Sunderland), 4-1-2-1-2(played since JJ has come in as number 2)

WBA was definitely 4-4-2. In fact, I'm certain it was a diamond formation. Roque and Kalinic started anyway.