[Archived] Sunderland v Rovers

[JAL]

today we did not play a ball winning player in midfield, if that happens you will not be able to win. all teams play a least one holding midfield player, so why did we not play one.

yes we play quite well in the second half, however the balance of the side looked a bit odd. still we move on to the next game, and lets hope we sign some new players soon

Every player in the team should be a ball winning player otherwise you become a luxury player.

[tony gale's mic]

I'm pretty sure Torres isn't a ball winning player.

[thenodrog]

Sam just bypassed the midfield, clever move!

I think the signing of Guti could have made a difference.

Pure logic. As Allardyce stated in his audience with the fans soon after he came. "Can we compete with other teams in midfield with more spending ability than us? No, not a chance. So in that case we must play to our strengths and not theirs."

So simple and so logical yet so many experts in the stands found it totally impossible to comprehend. I fear their is a steep and unpleasant learning curve about to be experienced by many.

[den]

trying to outplay and outscore a team with the quality of Bent, Gyan etc. doesn't seem the smartest move for me.

This is where Venky's naievity in sacking Allardyce for the reason of wanting someone "more positive" falls down, doesn't it!

Fancy, attacking football sounds great, but I don't remember any rovers side playing that way - at least since the days of Douglas and Clayton. When we won the PL we won plenty of games through sheer graft, defending resolutely and having the best striker in the world, and we won none through footballing teams off the park. Problem for Kean is that he must feel obliged to give the owners what they want, no matter how he sees things himself. He probably feels the need to throw bodies forward and attack at all times. Now, if he is trying to play football in any other way than the way he believes is best to get results, he's no chance of making things work.

[Hughesy]

Considering our injury/ suspension list I was not suprised by the defeat....however 3-0 was harsh

The difference was effectively there main signings Bent/ Gyan - £25m we didnt have!!

Hope we can sign some quality and start to get on a level playing field with these again.

Oh and Bruce - you t0sser!

[JAL]

I'm pretty sure Torres isn't a ball winning player.

When he was on top form he chased defenders down and made it hard for them to play out of defence.

[thenodrog]

Too many players at Rovers living off former glory and we haven't had the money to replace them.

That almost leaves me speechless! You were in the top 10 most vociferous anti-Allardyce brigade yet here you are outlining the problems that he was having to cope daily with within just three weeks of celebrating his sacking!

Here on second thoughts have another.

btw Talking of which just where are waggy and Abbey?

Couldn't agree more.

Crikey they are all at it! Never a top 10 more like a top 50.

The sound of chickens coming home to roost is becoming a crescendo.

Very disappointing that we've turned into a laughing stock with Bruce saying what he did.

What Bruce said alters nothing. # made us a laughing stock all on their own without any help from Steve Bruce.

[Tom]

Abbey quit the board before Sam left, he made a comeback when Sam was sacked saying he didn't agree with the timing of it.

I don't think anyone here advocated sacking Sam and not immedaitely replacing him with a quality replacement, if we had appointed say Jol it would have potentially have been a positive move but still badly timed.

[john.leigh]

Haven't read all the pages on here.

Watched the game on TV last night, never expected us to get anything at all.

After conceding a freakish first goal always going to be impossible for us & when the commentator mentioned that Bent was on a barren streak it was odds on that he would score today.

The team we put out played to their abilities, I don't think we can whinge too much about that, it's their level of ability that we CAN whinge about.

For the next game my line up would be:

Robinson

Salgado

Samba

Jones

Chimbonda

Grella

Nzonzi

Emerton

Andrews

Roberts

Kalinic

oh, wait a minute - All those players are unavailable....

[martmitch]

really badly missing jones in midfield imo, as pants as we were today we still created some good chances particularly from set pieces however by that logic sunderland could have really put 5 or 6 past us if bent didnt have his clown shoes on. Its unfortunate we didnt work their keeper at all, steve bruce could have put his wife inbetween the sticks

[Paul Mellelieu]

Pure logic. As Allardyce stated in his audience with the fans soon after he came. "Can we compete with other teams in midfield with more spending ability than us? No, not a chance. So in that case we must play to our strengths and not theirs."

So simple and so logical yet so many experts in the stands found it totally impossible to comprehend. I fear their is a steep and unpleasant learning curve about to be experienced by many.

Not so sure about this. I'm convinced that we could play better football than Allardyce has provided us with, and be fairly save.

I have to say that I had almost run out of excuses not to go to games this season, so dire has been the (anti) football during the last 18 months.

Jones' injury as been critical to us. I wonder if playing Samba there would do the trick, in the short term.

[JAL]

really badly missing jones in midfield imo, as pants as we were today we still created some good chances particularly from set pieces however by that logic sunderland could have really put 5 or 6 past us if bent didnt have his clown shoes on. Its unfortunate we didnt work their keeper at all, steve bruce could have put his wife inbetween the sticks

If Phil Jones had have played the result and performance would have been the same.

[Mr. E]

Just to make clear - a manager's job is not to get results only when he feels he has a strong enough squad. Similarly, the players are not expected to perform only when their first-choice teammates are present. Injuries are inconvenient, but they do not excuse results such as this one. This was a collective failure by the manager and the chosen players, something which has been a regular occurrence this season. Too many are thinking of their own futures and outside matters than the club itself.

[beerwins]

I have only just seen the highlights so cant really say much about the game but one thing I did notice is why the hell do we stand off so many players?

I only ever played pub football after leaving school but always played left back even in school and one golden rule is close down and push your man out wide, both the second and third goals could have been stopped, Olsson who is great at going forward but suspect at the back just gives the winger all the time in the world to put in an easy cross, why the hell did'nt he close him down?

The third goal Emerton just backed off Gyan until he had the space to get a shot off, he should have been way tighter and with his body shape he should have been pushing him out wide.

Shocking defending and it has been getting worse all season, while Sam was here it was declining as well so Kean really shoud'nt be getting all the blame, but it needs sorting out no matter how many injuries.

[Tooogs]

Steve Bruce is such a seeyounexttuesday

[Parsonblue]

I thought Kean got his tactics right on Tuesday and wrong today. Playing five at the back simply didn't work because both full-backs didn't get forward enough in the first half. The central midfield pairing of Dunn and Pedersen didn't produce anything going forward and neither looked happy defensively. Again, on Tuesday the midfield tended to push up to support Kalinic while today, Mame Biram Diouf in the first half and Benjani in the second half were totally isolated and posed no threat whatsoever.

In truth, 0-3 flattered us as Sunderland missed three very easy chances in the second half and also hit the bar. If they had doubled their score we couldn't really have complained.

Today merely underlined the threadbare nature of the squad that we have at the moment. On the plus side, Hoilett had an excellent game while El-Hadji Diouf worked hard throughout and created a glorious opening for Mame Biram Diouf - but his header hit the foot of the post.

I thought Bunn, who I think is a pretty good 'keeper, might have done better with the second and third goals and Nelsen's weak header led to the first. Sadly, too many of the senior players - Nelsen, Givet, Pedersen, Dunn, Emerton and MB Diouf - struggled to make any impression on the game. We badly missed Salgado's energy levels in getting up and down the right and his experience was also missed at the back.

Today's performance suggests that Venkys are going to have to dig deep financially if they want to finish in the top ten. We lack a genuine defensive midfield player who can protect the back four. We also have no real quality in terms of creativity in midfield and we have a real lack of goals in this department. Steed Malbranque simply ran the game in midfield and we had nobody who came near him in terms of quality when on the ball.

Although I didn't expect a win today, I thought we might have battled for a point but, sadly, once Sunderland scored we rarely looked like getting back in the game. I just hope that Kean can use his influence to persuade the new owners to part with some serious cash this month - otherwise it's going to be a long, hard second half to the campaign. I believe we still need 15 points to ensure survival and on the evidence of today, I'm not convinced our squad is strong enough to get them. We badly need some quality reinforcements.

[Tom]

Steve Bruce is such a seeyounexttuesday

He really is, needless comments really and they didn't even make sense, he says Sam will be upset at the result but delighted, amke your mind up fathead.

The man couldn't even spell loyalty.

[Tom 1]

Well as a Villa fan I obviously despise Bruce, both as a manager and as a person, exactly the kind of snipey pointless comments he came out with when he was doing well with Birmingham, he gets a bit big time every time he starts doing alright with a team, I can't wait until they lose a couple and (Please don't use that word again) off back down to the bottom half where they belong, with crap like Anton Ferdinand and Kieran Richardson in their team.

[thenodrog]

I don't buy into arguments about their strike force cost 24m blah blah blah - if you believed that we'd hardly ever get a result anywhere.

Well you should Simon. Have you forgotten the SAS? Outbidding MU etc for those two was without question the single biggest contributary factor to BRFC winning the Premiership title 15 years ago.

[thenodrog]

I do think our defence is fairly strong however would be improved by having a recognised left back, plus a decent/natural defensive midfielder.

Exactly right. Some stupid comments coming out about the defence as if the defence is a seperate entity from the rest of the team. The correct school of thought would instill in the squad that when the opponents are in possession that all 11 players should constitute the defence.

Truth is that our back four are put under too much pressure because the midfield recently has neither a tackle between them or a single defensive bone in their bodies. Three wingers and Dunny strung across the middle is a recipe for disaster. Jones injured, Grella injured, N'Zonzi injured (??? Am I alone in thinking there is something rather deeper and more sinister than an injury problem here. ). Not great midfielders but they are what we need to solve our problems of vulnerability.

[Miker]

Just watching a replay of the game, first half just finished. We were horrid, plain and simple.

For all the talk of us having an unstable defence, Nelsen, Givet and Bunn were quite solid in there. Our weakspots were plain for all to see, Hanley is too average to succeed at right back where he doesn't have any of the right attributes. Olsson is too weak defensively and doesn't do a good job at left back. Our midfield lacks any steel, people were happy to say Jones isn't a good enough midfielder, but I thought he had an excellent season playing that role and we now clearly miss his break up play and distribution in there.

Pedersen making way too many mistakes, Emerton almost non-existent. Dunn, to his credit, at least seemed to be trying a little harder. We can't play a 3 man midfield consisting of players who don't naturally play there and with none of those players being able to play the holding man role. M Diouf simply can't play the lone striker.

We seem much better in the second half playing a 4-4-2 with Benjani getting involved quite well and Emerton at right back. Next game that's what we need to play and one of Pedersen or Dunn MUST make way for Goulon or Linganzi.

[67splitscreen]

Exactly right. Some stupid comments coming out about the defence as if the defence is a seperate entity from the rest of the team. The correct school of thought would instill in the squad that when the opponents are in possession that all 11 players should constitute the defence.

Truth is that our back four are put under too much pressure because the midfield recently has neither a tackle between them or a single defensive bone in their bodies. Three wingers and Dunny strung across the middle is a recipe for disaster. Jones injured, Grella injured, N'Zonzi injured (??? Am I alone in thinking there is something rather deeper and more sinister than an injury problem here. ). Not great midfielders but they are what we need to solve our problems of vulnerability.

11 defending, a tactic well employed under the likes of Dalglish.

Defend from your strikers right the way back to your GK.

[thenodrog]

Not so sure about this. I'm convinced that we could play better football than Allardyce has provided us with, and be fairly save.

I have to say that I had almost run out of excuses not to go to games this season, so dire has been the (anti) football during the last 18 months.

Jones' injury as been critical to us. I wonder if playing Samba there would do the trick, in the short term.

Is that an admission that you enjoyed Paul Ince's 6 months in charge Paul?

[thenodrog]

What Bruce said alters nothing. # made us a laughing stock all on their own without any help from Steve Bruce.

For want of a more suitable place and not wanting to start a new thread.......

Ask Admin...... Mod Watch

http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php/topic/21659-mod-watch/page__view__findpost__p__999222

[philipl]

Just watching a replay of the game, first half just finished. We were horrid, plain and simple.

For all the talk of us having an unstable defence, Nelsen, Givet and Bunn were quite solid in there. Our weakspots were plain for all to see, Hanley is too average to succeed at right back where he doesn't have any of the right attributes. Olsson is too weak defensively and doesn't do a good job at left back. Our midfield lacks any steel, people were happy to say Jones isn't a good enough midfielder, but I thought he had an excellent season playing that role and we now clearly miss his break up play and distribution in there.

Pedersen making way too many mistakes, Emerton almost non-existent. Dunn, to his credit, at least seemed to be trying a little harder. We can't play a 3 man midfield consisting of players who don't naturally play there and with none of those players being able to play the holding man role. M Diouf simply can't play the lone striker.

We seem much better in the second half playing a 4-4-2 with Benjani getting involved quite well and Emerton at right back. Next game that's what we need to play and one of Pedersen or Dunn MUST make way for Goulon or Linganzi.

Good points- we had Hanley in his third PL start moved to playing out of position when we had a serviceable right back in Chimbonda who has been shown the door by SK. The reality is that with Chimbonda in the out tray, we were ten players down yesterday and four players arguably playing out of position.