[Archived] The Relegation Battle Aftermath

[jim mk2]

I hope I'm wrong and we survive comfortably but I think it's time to face the reality that Rovers are in trouble and facing a relegation battle from now to the end of the season.

The new owners have sacked a safe pair of hands in Sam Allardyce and replaced him with an unproven rookie manager who has so far taken 4 points out of 12 including 2 abject defeats and a lucky win at West Brom.

But that is their decision and the fans have to live with it. The purpose of this thread is not to discuss the 2 managers but the increasing prospects of Rovers being sucked into the scrap for Premier League survival and who our main rivals will be.

For what it's worth, I think we will stay up.......but only by a whisker in a nailbiting end to the season.

[Tom]

It is possible we will be dragged into a battle this year but the league is insane this time around and a couple of wins takes you comfortably into the top half.

January is obviously vital and I think come Feb 1st things will be clear to see. A couple of players and we should propel ourselves upwards, a quiet window and squeeky bum time.

[Amo]

I hope I'm wrong and we survive comfortably but I think it's time to face the reality that Rovers are in trouble and facing a relegation battle from now to the end of the season.

The new owners have sacked a safe pair of hands in Sam Allardyce and replaced him with an unproven rookie manager who has so far taken 4 points out of 12 including 2 abject defeats and a lucky win at West Brom.

But that is their decision and the fans have to live with it. The purpose of this thread is not to discuss the 2 managers but the increasing prospects of Rovers being sucked into the scrap for Premier League survival and who our main rivals will be.

For what it's worth, I think we will stay up.......but only by a whisker in a nailbiting end to the season.

Didn't you say there was a good chance we'd get relegated before Sam was even fired?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

1.Its now up to Venky's to back us with cash.......as promised.

I was happy over all with Sam and would have been happy to see him carry on.Hard work sometimes with his away day 'surrender monkey' tactics, against the BIG clubs,you just had to swallow your pride and go for a long bike ride when those games came calling.Hey ho! there he goes.

So we have Kean on instruction from Venky's,as fans we have no other option but to back him.As Souness (oh for those heady days once more!) once famously qouted 'we have to wee with the willy we have'.

Our side when fully fit should be good enough to stay in this league but expect nothing more....its paper thin in both terms of quantity and quality.I do believe there are three team worse than Rovers but we need that backing from Chicken@inc to help us a little.......

PLEASE REFER TO POINT No1 ABOVE.

We await with baited breath.

[Balwer]

Well I was certainly an admirer of Sam's work, particularly since I am a fan who prefers substance over style. I felt he was perfect for a mid-table club with no money to spend. I also thought it was poor to sack Sam mid-season and replace him with someone unproven at managerial level, regardless of promise.

That being said, despite the poor results to date I can't take issue with Kean mainly because of the large amount of injuries we've had to deal with in his short amount of time in charge. The January window is obviously the main part of the relegation battle, and we'll see if Venky's can finally put their money where their mouths are. I admit I am a skeptic, and that's certainly been well-documented on many threads. I don't doubt their business sense in the least, I just feel that a ) they don't have the large amounts of money needed to invest in our team and b ) if they did they wouldn't consider it as important an investment in regards to their core business, growing the Venkys brand (and associated chicken and biotechnology businesses) worldwide. I believe they see Rovers as a means to market the brand, and that footballing success is not important unless it somehow helps strengthen their overall revenues.

Although I am skeptical of Kentaro's involvement, it may end up working in our favour. If Venkys are reluctant to spend funds on the club, and I am not saying they are but this is a new venture for them after all and they confess to no footballing knowledge, then Kentaro might be able to whisper in their ear the benefits of bringing new players in, and that their money would be well spent (may of course help Kentaro if it's their own players coming in).

If there are new players that come in, and if the squad gets healthy again, we will see what Kean is made of. I think the current squad, with a couple of decent additions, and just enough luck, will be good enough to stay up, under decent management and with motivated players.

Fairly long-winded but my two cents...

[Mattyblue]

I admit I am a skeptic, and that's certainly been well-documented on many threads. I don't doubt their business sense in the least, I just feel that a ) they don't have the large amounts of money needed to invest in our team and b ) if they did they wouldn't consider it as important an investment in regards to their core business, growing the Venkys brand (and associated chicken and biotechnology businesses) worldwide. I believe they see Rovers as a means to market the brand, and that footballing success is not important unless it somehow helps strengthen their overall revenues.

My views entirely. Nobody has ever answered my question on where they will find the funds for player purchases of any note. Plus, it seems highly unlikely that transfers for a foreign sports team would ever be a big priority for their business- a business that is barely profitable.

[Balwer]

My views entirely. Nobody has ever answered my question on where they will find the funds for player purchases of any note. Plus, it seems highly unlikely that transfers for a foreign sports team would ever be a big priority for their business- a business that is barely profitable.

wouldn't say barely profitable Matty, the margin is reasonable, it's just that the sales amounts aren't that high, so the profit (18m annual for Venkys at least) is a good return for the sales figures. It's just not a massive business. Are the side businesses? Perhaps. Are there family businesses we don't know about? Perhaps. But remember, the group started with Venkys 40 years ago. These are currently record profits. They don't own all the shares. If there is family fortune elsewhere then where did it originally come from?

Anyway we've been down that track hundreds of times. The whole board will disagree on exactly how much money the Raos have, but it's irrelevant compared to how much they invest in the club.

[tony gale's mic]

Yeah, apparently the money is from their own personal fortune rather than that of the business...or so the story goes anyway.

As long as they don't put installment deals in like Pompey did then it can't hurt us too much. If this model of getting promising young players is accurate then they shouldn't be asking for too high wages for joining us, unlike the 80,000 a week which Pompey were dishing out.

[John]

Well I was certainly an admirer of Sam's work, particularly since I am a fan who prefers substance over style. I felt he was perfect for a mid-table club with no money to spend. I also thought it was poor to sack Sam mid-season and replace him with someone unproven at managerial level, regardless of promise.

That being said, despite the poor results to date I can't take issue with Kean mainly because of the large amount of injuries we've had to deal with in his short amount of time in charge. The January window is obviously the main part of the relegation battle, and we'll see if Venky's can finally put their money where their mouths are. I admit I am a skeptic, and that's certainly been well-documented on many threads. I don't doubt their business sense in the least, I just feel that a ) they don't have the large amounts of money needed to invest in our team and b ) if they did they wouldn't consider it as important an investment in regards to their core business, growing the Venkys brand (and associated chicken and biotechnology businesses) worldwide. I believe they see Rovers as a means to market the brand, and that footballing success is not important unless it somehow helps strengthen their overall revenues.

Although I am skeptical of Kentaro's involvement, it may end up working in our favour. If Venkys are reluctant to spend funds on the club, and I am not saying they are but this is a new venture for them after all and they confess to no footballing knowledge, then Kentaro might be able to whisper in their ear the benefits of bringing new players in, and that their money would be well spent (may of course help Kentaro if it's their own players coming in).

If there are new players that come in, and if the squad gets healthy again, we will see what Kean is made of. I think the current squad, with a couple of decent additions, and just enough luck, will be good enough to stay up, under decent management and with motivated players.

Fairly long-winded but my two cents...

Very good post Balwer.

[philipl]

Yeah, apparently the money is from their own personal fortune rather than that of the business...or so the story goes anyway.

As long as they don't put installment deals in like Pompey did then it can't hurt us too much. If this model of getting promising young players is accurate then they shouldn't be asking for too high wages for joining us, unlike the 80,000 a week which Pompey were dishing out.

If this is a relegation battle, we need proven seasoned Premier League professionals and they cost in transfer fees and wages.

[Balwer]

Yeah, apparently the money is from their own personal fortune rather than that of the business...or so the story goes anyway.

I know, but that's my point. Did they have a personal fortune before Venkys? I don't believe so. Their father started it from basically nothing in 71 I believe. So if Venkys hasn't generated much of a profit then they've had to have been incredibly successful in other ventures, without outlaying much of their own money. It doesn't add up to me, but I'm turning into a broken record again. They're good business people, hopefully they see investing in new players as a worthwhile investment, because I think we can all agree they won't be doing it for the love of the club.

[tony gale's mic]

I know, but that's my point. Did they have a personal fortune before Venkys? I don't believe so. Their father started it from basically nothing in 71 I believe. So if Venkys hasn't generated much of a profit then they've had to have been incredibly successful in other ventures, without outlaying much of their own money. It doesn't add up to me, but I'm turning into a broken record again. They're good business people, hopefully they see investing in new players as a worthwhile investment, because I think we can all agree they won't be doing it for the love of the club.

I see where you're coming from and a large part of me thinks that too.

But at least they've got some potential revenue streams and a tangible successful business with a documented and extensive track record pre Rovers - I remember trying to explain to various members on here (such as our "financial expert" Philip) that Ahsan Ali Syed's 300 million investment into Blackburn Rovers was never going to happen since no one had even heard of him before.

[Bobby G]

SHOW US THE MONEY.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

John,if this lot do not show us the cash we have been promised,everyone will have been fed Porky pies.This month is going to be very important for ALL concerned at Rovers I feel.

Our new owners have talked the talk,its now time for them to back their words

And I'm being deadly serious. :!:

[Gav]

I hope I'm wrong and we survive comfortably but I think it's time to face the reality that Rovers are in trouble and facing a relegation battle from now to the end of the season.

The new owners have sacked a safe pair of hands in Sam Allardyce and replaced him with an unproven rookie manager who has so far taken 4 points out of 12 including 2 abject defeats and a lucky win at West Brom.

But that is their decision and the fans have to live with it. The purpose of this thread is not to discuss the 2 managers but the increasing prospects of Rovers being sucked into the scrap for Premier League survival and who our main rivals will be.

For what it's worth, I think we will stay up.......but only by a whisker in a nailbiting end to the season.

Would you have felt compelled to post a similar thread had Allardyce been in charge? Because we’d have had a similar, if not worse, return in terms of point had he been so, in my opinion?

Typical knee jerk reaction from someone who should know better, the guy has only been in charge 3wks!

[Balwer]

I see where you're coming from and a large part of me thinks that too.

But at least they've got some potential revenue streams and a tangible successful business with a documented and extensive track record pre Rovers - I remember trying to explain to various members on here (such as our "financial expert" Philip) that Ahsan Ali Syed's 300 million investment into Blackburn Rovers was never going to happen since no one had even heard of him before.

Good point, they are a solid, market-leading business with a good track record and they clearly have a good business plan they're following regarding future growth (ie. international expansion). If they believe that Rovers success can tie in to that growth then we should be able to benefit from that. I don't have a problem where that money comes from, if it's from a bank loan or from a big pile of cash, as long as it's done from their own personal dealings and not in anyway as a burden to the club.

[Mattyblue]

Would you have felt compelled to post a similar thread had Allardyce been in charge? Because we’d have had a similar, if not worse, return in terms of point had he been so, in my opinion?

Typical knee jerk reaction from someone who should know better, the guy has only been in charge 3wks!

Of course he wouldn't and he would have been correct not to. We would not have gone down.

However, it is much more likely with a rookie manager needlessly parachuted in midseason.

[RevidgeBlue]

Interesting thread but one which should really be re-named "The relegation battle we might get sucked into but one which we might have got sucked into anyway regardless of whether there'd been a change ov manager."

(Thanks to years of under investment from the previous owners)

[Mr. E]

What relegation battle, Venkys are targeting the Champions League.

[Hughesy]

So up pops this thread....take it our battered squad lost today then??

Seriously knee-jerk reaction....lets see what the January sales bring 1st eh.

[sambo]

So up pops this thread....take it our battered squad lost today then??

Seriously knee-jerk reaction....lets see what the January sales bring 1st eh.

Agreed. Today was a write off, we were missing the majority of our team against a Sunderland team chopping at the bit to avenge their very unlucky defeat vs Blackpool.

I don't believe Big Sam would have got a result today, as wouldn't most managers; we were that depleted all over the field.

And Jim, I believe this thread is possibly just an attempt for you to say how much rosier things would be with Big Sam, something you will remind us of after every defeat.

Onwards & Upwards - Steve Kean's Blue and White Army!

[47er]

So up pops this thread....take it our battered squad lost today then??

Seriously knee-jerk reaction....lets see what the January sales bring 1st eh.

If our involvement in the January sales is not a fantastic success, then we are in real trouble. We are totally reliant on owners who originally said we'd only need an investment of 5M (including wages) in January but there would be more later in the summer.

Thank God they've contradicted themselves loads of times since because we have lost the manager with the know-how to hold a patched side together for years and replaced him with one who now has (wait for it!) 3 weeks experience!

Total lunacy unless they intend to spend millions.

[roversWASmylife]

Any club in the league between 8th and the bottom can get drawn into it.

It's that tight, a run of 2 or 3 wins gets you away from it, on the flip side you're in a dog fight.

Blackpool at home will be a game we need to win. Home games are the key, we win them and we'll stay up.

[cruz]

Interesting thread but one which should really be re-named "The relegation battle we might get sucked into but one which we might have got sucked into anyway regardless of whether there'd been a change ov manager."

(Thanks to years of under investment from the previous owners)

But a thread title like has no scope for a big wooden stirring spoon and a sackfull of bull

[47er]

But a thread title like has no scope for a big wooden stirring spoon and a sackfull of bull

I'm not going to use the word "trolling" anymore.

"Cruzing" sounds much better.