[Archived] The Relegation Battle Aftermath

[Iceman]

agree Tom, this point is still a huge point for us. it's vital though, that Brum don't beat Fulham, and West Ham beat Wigan

[Kamy100]

The point today could still be huge. To get above us Wolves will have to beat us, Wigan will have to win both their remaining games and Blackpool will need to win at Old Trafford. If Wigan win tomorrow, we will go into the last day knowing that both Wigan and Blackpool will have to win for them to overtake us, if one win and the other loses then as long we draw then we will be ok. If Birmingham fail to beat Fulham tomorrow then they are also in massive trouble.

Of course it is going to be tense next Sunday, but at the moment I would take our position over that of our relegation rivals.

[Lathund]

Typical that as soon as we get a result that we on paper shouldn't, then the teams around us win as well.

Wigan-West Ham is the key game now IMO; Wigan must win that game to be able to get past us (Well theoretically a draw and a win could do, but we have +9 GD over them), if they don't then it's us, Wolves, Blackpool and Birmingham fighting to avoid the last spot. Birmingham do have a very winnable game tomorrow against Fulham, and will 99.9% be safe if they win that.

From our PoV, the good thing is that we're ahead of Blackpool and Wolves going into the last day. Blackpool won't get past us if they draw and we lose (Unless we lose by 7...). We also have it all in our hands, a win and we stay up, no matter what. A draw and we're very certain to as well.

The bad; I don't trust us to play well two weeks in a row. United have nothing to play for and will play their reserves; now I trust Sir Alex in so much that he means what he says, his intent is to go out and win and be fair to the rest of the teams. But the reality might not be that.

Overall we're in good shape, having a GD advantage is huge really. However I won't be able to relax for even a second... anything could happen.

[Bobby G]

The point today could still be huge. To get above us Wolves will have to beat us, Wigan will have to win both their remaining games and Blackpool will need to win at Old Trafford. If Wigan win tomorrow, we will go into the last day knowing that both Wigan and Blackpool will have to win for them to overtake us, if one win and the other loses then as long we draw then we will be ok. If Birmingham fail to beat Fulham tomorrow then they are also in massive trouble.

Of course it is going to be tense next Sunday, but at the moment I would take our position over that of our relegation rivals.

Best summary of the situation.

[Emge]

Blackpool have actually won 5 away games this season but I can't see United wanting to give up their unbeaten record easily so it should be very hard for Blackpool to win.

Blimey!

Youre dead right. I misunderstood their fixture-list.

But as you say, winning at Old trafford on their special day, it will be next to impossible I think.

[davulsukur]

far too close for comfort, results went badly against us which is nothing we can do anything about. Wigan and West ham to draw and that effectively eliminates them 2 places. Wolves are in decent form at the moment, not too confident about getting a result there

[Roverdale]

far too close for comfort, results went badly against us which is nothing we can do anything about. Wigan and West ham to draw and that effectively eliminates them 2 places. Wolves are in decent form at the moment, not too confident about getting a result there

Their decent form includes beating Sunderland who are in awful form, beating West Brom who didn't even turn up, drawing against fellow relegation strugglers B'Ham and losing to Stoke. Our form trumps theirs recently I think and even though we're away, a set up like todays from Kean will see us with at least a point.

[Iceman]

correct me if I'm wrong, but if West Ham draw tomorrow, then they are relegated?

[Roverdale]

correct me if I'm wrong, but if West Ham draw tomorrow, then they are relegated?

Correct

[tony gale's mic]

Every single point you make here is totally wrong. Here goes..

Get real. People are constantly told that anything other than Sam's game was impossible for a club of our size, and attractive football is a pipedream etc etc. When in actuality, people were just tired of one-dimensional football.

And that style, while pragmatic, was dismal and downright embarrassing at times.

Really? Tell me when people have said that? I've certainly never said that.

What myself and others have said, is that to maintain the sort of top ten finishes we've come to expect is very difficult on a budget whilst playing attractive football. Hughes managed the good football at Rovers initially but the style in his last season really wasn't that great. It was less direct than Sam's but the difference really wasn't that big.

It is possible to play attractive looking football, stay in the league and finish lower down the table - see Wigan. But I'd sooner take Sam's football and finish top 10 than be perennial relegation strugglers like Wigan. There's no one who's played Holloway/Martinez style football and had sustained success in this league on a budget - at least not in the last decade or so. Coyle might manage it but it'll need another season or two to count as sustained success.

Well, that's just wrong. Last season we finished the season well and our performances reflected that. We started to mix it about and played with more fluidity than usual. Fans, such as myself, thought we'd continue in the same vein this season, but we were wrong.

Really? I can remember good showings against Everton, Chelsea, home to Villa, a lot of the Wolves game, the first half of the Arsenal game, hell even in his last game against Bolton we played some good stuff until we fell apart. Equally there were games where we were playing more of a long ball style, some of which we won (Newcastle) and some of which we drew/lost.

Either way, to say we were playing that same style in every game is rubbish.

And most importantly, the results were again pretty good, with a few obvious exceptions.

Hoilett? Olsson? Two young, pacy wingers, one of which was consigned to little gametime until Kean gave him a run in the side.

And Sam had opportunities to sign attacking players but failed to deliver. It's all well and good to say he'd sign attacking players if he had the money, but the sign of a great manager is one who can unearth those gems. Need I remind you he turned down Stuart Holden.

Olsson was converted into a winger by Sam. One pacy winger who was still maturing as a footballer and who was less consistent last season isn't anywhere near enough. Someone like a Craig Bellamy is a different matter.

Again, you're regurgitating this rubbish about Hoilett not getting enough chances under Sam. Let's put this to bed once and for all, though I thought we already did this.

Fact one: He played in 24 league games last season. Fact two: He was a 19 year old whose only previous experience was the German second division. Fact three: Young players in their first season in the league like Hoilett was are almost always given substitute appearances to start off with and managers see how they go and then give them more game time if their performances merit it (unless in extreme situations like an injury crisis). See Wayne Rooney at Everton. Fact four: The general consensus of Rovers fans on his performances last season was that he'd shown a fair bit of promise but overall his end product didn't merit a regular starting place. There certainly wasn't a big clamour based on his many appearances for him to be regularly starting - he simply wasn't quite ready.

You don't need to remind me, because you keep going on about Sam turning down Stuart Holden as some sort of stick to beat him with. Every manager has turned players down who ended up being great. You do know that Liverpool once turned down Christiano Ronaldo? Stuart Holden is good and we could have done with him in the team in hindsight, but he's not that good.

Last season his priority was strengthening us from the back and making us into a solid outfit. This season, having achieved that, he was then looking to add some attacking players. He didn't get the chance to fully realise that.

Our league finish wasn't the issue, was it?

But since you ask, had Sam changed his approach to away games, it stands to reason we would pick up more points.

What are you on about? Our league finish is always the primary issue. You can't have a conversation about style of play without incorporating the league finish into it, since that's the ultimate measure of the results achieved. If you start to change your style it'll inevitably affect the results, either positively or negatively.

Sam's away record was bang average but not awful. Our away record was within three points of every other team near us apart from Stoke. To finish ahead of Everton we wouldve needed to have the away record similar to Spurs or City and better than Liverpool's, or better than Man Utd's away record this season. So Sam changing his approach to away games still wouldnt have us finishing higher than 9th.

You almost reminisce about his Bolton days as much as he does! You do know he's managed two clubs since then? And he hardly pulled up trees in the transfer market at either of them. He spent money at Newcastle and they still played like crap.

£8.5m well spent on Kalinic & Chimbonda, btw. Don't get me wrong, Sam made some coups here, but I don't buy this pledge that he'd spend our cash wisely and transform our playing style.

His Bolton days were very impressive. Surely the fact that over his final four seasons they were the leagues best club outside the top four was a magnificent achievement? Especially considering the budget it was achieved on? It's not even like the wage bill was that high as you've liked to claim in the past - we disproved that one already.

Newcastle got considerably better results under Sam than the season before he arrived. Sacking him was ridiculous. While some of his transfers were poor, others like Jose Enrique, Habib Beye and even Joey Barton have all proved to be good signings. He's not as good as Hughes was in the transfer market, but he would've made a few very good signings. I doubt he'd transform our playing style but I think there would've been a marked difference.

[Iceman]

I can't see us going down, because United will not want to ruin their home record against Blackpool. are we up for one more big performance though, if we are then we will not lose to Wolves

[Mercer]

I think there are twists and turns to come.

Come next Sunday, as all the games progress, I think you will see us in the bottom three at some stage.

Wouldn't like to put money on where we end-up though.

As I've already said in one thread, the bitter irony would be if we fall into the bottom three for the first time this season and don't get out.

[Roverdale]

You don't need to remind me, because you keep going on about Sam turning down Stuart Holden as some sort of stick to beat him with. Every manager has turned players down who ended up being great. You do know that Liverpool once turned down Christiano Ronaldo? Stuart Holden is good and we could have done with him in the team in hindsight, but he's not that good.

Not that I'm disagreeing with anything you've said... but Liverpool didn't buy Ronaldo because his wages were too high for their wage structure (as the story goes). I realise it was still a mistake but it's unfair to say this as though it was someones fault, it was the club policy. Describing Holden as 'great' I think is an overstatement, he's a slightly more geared up Pedersen really.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Why have I got a very bad feeling about UTD V Blackpool next week

[Stuart]

I've been playing around on BBC predictor (that thing should come with a health warning!).

I reckon every team below us would swap to vein our position but it's still 3 from 5.

Ideally we don't want Wolves requiring victory against us to stay up.

In order to avoid that, part one is for Wigan not to beat West Ham tomorrow.

After that it'll be all eyes on Old Trafford to be sure Blackpool aren't winning! (Can't see Wigan getting 4 at Stoke).

[Iceman]

I think there are twists and turns to come.

Come next Sunday, as all the games progress, I think you will see us in the bottom three at some stage.

Wouldn't like to put money on where we end-up though.

As I've already said in one thread, the bitter irony would be if we fall into the bottom three for the first time this season and don't get out.

oh shutup, I've had enough of this nonsense now. if we go down, then so be it. However, the constant negativity coming out of your mouth is unbelievable. show some positivity for once

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I think there are twists and turns to come.

Come next Sunday, as all the games progress, I think you will see us in the bottom three at some stage.

Wouldn't like to put money on where we end-up though.

As I've already said in one thread, the bitter irony would be if we fall into the bottom three for the first time this season and don't get out.

You aren't the guy who found George Best in bed with Miss World, two bottles of champagne and a suitcase full of casino winnings and said " Where did it all go wrong George " are you Mercyman ?

Not that I'm disagreeing with anything you've said... but Liverpool didn't buy Ronaldo because his wages were too high for their wage structure (as the story goes). I realise it was still a mistake but it's unfair to say this as though it was someones fault, it was the club policy. Describing Holden as 'great' I think is an overstatement, he's a slightly more geared up Pedersen really.

You mean Holden's crap then ?

[Rovers Gals]

Was it a Devi ate penalty ?

[Mercer]

oh shutup, I've had enough of this nonsense now. if we go down, then so be it. However, the constant negativity coming out of your mouth is unbelievable. show some positivity for once

It's called realism which, unfortunately, IMO, our owners and manager do not possess.

Like many others, I would have been a lot more positive with a few more wins, a successful transfer window and an improvement on last season's tenth.

[Fraserkirky]

I'll feel alot better if Birmingham dont win tommorrow, with them having to go to spurs on the last day they might slip down into the bottom 3 when all is said and done.

Blackpool surely wont beat United, will they?

Or we could just go out next sunday and get the job done ourselves.Though we were excellent in the first half again today. Lets do it for 90mins next week and we'll be safe. The refereeing decisions have really cost us this season, I'm starting to lose count, again today never a pen, the guy's kicked it out then left his leg in. Standard cheating, should have had money on them getting a pen the day.

Well done to the players today and dare I say Kean.

[Mercer]

You aren't the guy who found George Best in bed with Miss World, two bottles of champagne and a suitcase full of casino winnings and said " Where did it all go wrong George " are you Mercyman ?

Absolutely not! I work hard but also play feckin hard !

Rovers have been a big part of my life for getting on 50 years and like many, it's incredibly cutting to have experienced what we have over the last six months.

If we stay-up and Kean goes, I am sure that I'll be feeling far more optimistic if we manage to appoint a credible alternative who can take us forward once more.

[DudeAbides]

Not good for the blood pressure

[Iceman]

Absolutely not! I work hard but also play feckin hard !

Rovers have been a big part of my life for getting on 50 years and like many, it's incredibly cutting to have experienced what we have over the last six months.

If we stay-up and Kean goes, I am sure that I'll be feeling far more optimistic if we manage to appoint a credible alternative who can take us forward once more.

yes, but we are in a fight, irrespective of who the manager or owners are. its now down to the final game, we are by no means safe, but we can make sure of it with a win or draw at wolves. got to remain positive, its now all down to the players , management and those travelling to the game.

[imy9]

I think there are twists and turns to come.

Come next Sunday, as all the games progress, I think you will see us in the bottom three at some stage.

Wouldn't like to put money on where we end-up though.

As I've already said in one thread, the bitter irony would be if we fall into the bottom three for the first time this season and don't get out.

Your words have filled me with confidence as you are consistently wrong!

You said 39 points would be safe for Blues but not Rovers, Hoilett has played again for Rovers and we did not lost between 4 and 8-0 to United...so keep going

[philipl]

Whatever happens tomorrow, salvation will be in our own hands.

Win at Molyneux and we stay up- simoles.