[Archived] Transfer Window Part 2

[cloggyjimmybrfc]

Sorry cloggy

This board as.been going the same way in recent weeks....I usually just read this board.and not get involved ,though I do enjoy reading it and there's some very knowlegable folk on here,but by the Christ there's some doomers..never mind.eh there's only 3 weeks left ,let's all get the rope out!....WAIT!....I was joking....

[RevidgeBlue]

Quite true, however, millions were either pumped-in or capitalised (written-off) in order to keep us going. Would you do the same with your family's assets.

Probably not.

But without wishing to minimise the contribution made by Uncle Jack or the family the money pumped in or capitalised was either money earmarked specifically by Jack for the Businesses following his death or the writing off of money which had already been put by him prior to his death.

The Walkers haven't jeapordised their financial position in any way. Nor should they have done either.

[LeChuck]

That we can reintroduce this stability is absolutely key, but the owners business plan seems from the outside to not geared towards this.

I was thinking the same.

Even our apparent transfer policy reflects this - six month loan deals for RSC/Duff? When have we ever operated like that?

We have been successful by taking players other clubs had no use for and developing them, not taking past-it (and injury prone) players for six months.

[des]

I do not have any peole in the know, like a lot of people I am just a normal fan.

So we will have to wait until feb to know it what direction the club is going, them we cam base it on some facts.

The new owners have to be given a chance, its there money. I will wait till feb to give my views.

[RevidgeBlue]

I am uncomfortable about Rovers going down a route where the club could not stand on its own two feet without Venky's support - that is the only stable position.

We've never really been in a break even position under the previous regime either though. So if that is to change, something else has to change somewhere.

Whatever one might think about the attempt to lure Ronaldinho, that might hpothetically be seen as an opportunity to open up additional revenue streams from elsewhere.

[Mercer]

I don’t want to drag this thread off topic but I can’t let this go without comment.

How the hell are we in ‘potentially in a tough spot’?

We are active in the transfer market for the first time in years, we have a manager that’s trying to play football the right way, with some early success, and sit 9th in the premiership having just hammered Liverpool?

If that’s being in tough spot I’d take it every time.

A tough spot is being bottom of the 3rd divsion without a pot to wee in, been there done that

Spot on - who can forget Tony Field's massacre of Mansfield @ Ewood which turned the corner for us.

[RevidgeBlue]

I was thinking the same.

Even our apparent transfer policy reflects this - six month loan deals for RSC/Duff? When have we ever operated like that?

We have been successful by taking players other clubs had no use for and developing them, not taking past-it (and injury prone) players for six months.

Not like Jeffers/Basturk/Di Santo/Benjani/Mame Diouf then?

Spot on - who can forget Tony Field's massacre of Mansfield @ Ewood which turned the corner for us.

Tony Field - what a player.

Ken Furphy - what a manager. Therein lies the definition of a wheeler and dealer.

[ultrablue]

Quite true, however, millions were either pumped-in or capitalised (written-off) in order to keep us going. Would you do the same with your family's assets.

If it meant that the team stayed in the Premier League then yes, of course they would. Blackburn Rovers IS their family asset now.

I have to laugh at the amount of hysteria surrounding our transfer budget. These are Asian business people - they don't plan budgets in a strict or concrete way that businesses do in Europe and the US. They tend to focus case by case.

They were pushed hard enough and so they gave a cash figure. However, chances are it was pulled out of thin air at that very moment.

It will have been quite embarrassing for Venkys to have had to name an amount without knowing precisely who they are going to be asked to buy.

They have been burnt once and, being very savvy business people, have declined to talk figures again. Hence there has been no swift counter-statement naming another, higher amount.

Ever since Steve Kean went to Pune, he too has continued to keep things quiet in terms of a transfer budget. Venkys and our new manager seem to be on the same wavelength which is very positive.

[True Blue & White]

This may explain Venky's being less reluctant to open the wallet...

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/venky's-(india)-ltd/stocks/companyid-12827.cms

Their shares have dropped 27 points yesterday and 59 points over the paste five days (click on "5D" above the graph). If you look at the month they were shooting up until January the 2nd when it started dropping like a stone!

Could just be the news of the Ronnie story scared investors but if that trend continues they'll definately be skint!

[LeChuck]

Not like Jeffers/Basturk/Di Santo/Benjani/Mame Diouf then?

A few exceptions to the rule. Some of them don't even work.

Do you actually disagree with what I wrote about our success over the last few years, or is it just another arsey post blindly defending everything the new owners are doing?

Warnock, Bentley, Samba, Nelsen, Santa Cruz etc. That has the been the foundation of our success, not frivolously throwing money at loan deals.

[Fife Rover]

OK I knew there would be some flak from somewhere so let me explain things. I only contribute to certain threads on the MB because much of it doesn't interest me and my football knowledge (players around the world etc) is not good enough these days. Long gone are the days when I could reel off a stream of football based facts. A good example of this is the "Marquee Signing" thread where I expressed the fantasy which went through my head watching the LIverpool game and it became apparent I had totally the wrong end of the stick. I very, very rarely even read the transfer window thread because I can't keep up, don't know 95% of the names and I'm only interested in players on our pitch not 500 pages of fantasy football. This window is a bit different though.

One of the things which interests me is the future of our club. I hear a lot of rumour and I'm not sure how much is true, but most of it would send the MB in to complete meltdown. I have never posted any of this on here and will only ever comment on what I see in the published media.

As regards Phil Jones I still believe he would have been sold. I refuse to reveal the source of this information but by way of explanation I will say this. Many sports people live ordinary lives, like you and me (I'm no one special, I have no club contacts). Just through every day life I meet / know / hear of many sports people. My son was coached by Laura Massaro (World No.8 squash), my wife knows her mother, I used the same gym as many Bolton and Rovers players, my wife knows Kevin Gallacher's wife, within literally one minute of my back door live Tom Smith (Lancashire cricketer), Nicky Reid (ex Rovers and Man City), Jason Quealy (British cyclist), my kids went to school with relatives of Neil Ruddock and still know them, one of my lads has two friends who play in the FL and one friend whose father manages in the FL, I know a Bolton Wanderers director. I won't bore you with any more except to say Phil is a local lad and I live locally - I do NOT know the player. The point is in my ordinary humdrum life I come across people in ordinary everyday settings and hear things.

Alan Nixon is a journalist and has to guard his sources. He is clearly an intelligent and articulate man. In the past I and others have asked him deeper questions about football and Rovers. These are never answered. To know what he writes he must have very good contacts, ergo he must know a great deal about events at Ewood, way beyond who we may or may not buy etc. That none of this ever gets a mention makes me question things. I don't doubt nicko I just question it, that's what we do with journalism and media, we should not believe everything that is published. He is is not a Rover and one question I would love to see answered is why is he here?

Many football fans are only interested in the good news, not being interested in, for example, the huge, unsustainable debt that may be piled on to the club. In today's PL every action has a consequence and it is very foolish to live for today.

You're right I do have an agenda - it is this. I believe money and foreign ownership are killing our game. I have said this for years. I can accept we have little choice but foreign ownership for Rovers. I am happy to accept competent owners who will manage the club well. Sadly the current owners have not, in my opinion, demostrated the experience to manage our club. I will continue to try and argue this in a rational manner without resorting to being unpleasant to other MBers.

I feel so strongly about this ownership issue I will boycott today's game. For me this is extremely hard not least because it means one of my sons, who needs support to attend, cannot go. I think though the issues surrounding our proud club are sufficient to justify this.

I apologise if my thoughts offend you and others but all I do is try to present them in a reasonable and, I hope, well argued manner................and I still believe Phil Jones would have been sold in January, presumably to fund purchases but I don't know that.

WOW! What a great post that was Paul. You have actually said virtually every single thought that I have myself about the current situation at Blackburn Rovers....the club that I have loved and supported throughout my life. You have shown that you too have all the same feelings and fears that I have for the welfare and future of our great club and for football in general, and for all the same reasons. I too have regularly ranted against the dangers and almost inevitable failure of the PL approach to football which is plainly unsustainable in the long term. Why can no one else see it? The old saying of there are none so blind...... etc

Like you Paul I am undecided about our new owners, but I am genuinely willing to give them every chance to show what they are about. I too desparately WANT them to succeed, because then Rovers will succeed and we as supporters will all benefit. Likewise with Steve Kean ; I want him to succeed, and so far so good but he must not be judged just yet. The time for a true appraisal of him and the owners will be around the start of the next season when a lot of things will have become clear for all to see and on which to base a proper appraisal of performance. Until then COYB!!!

[Guest Walshy]

This may explain Venky's being less reluctant to open the wallet...

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/venky's-(india)-ltd/stocks/companyid-12827.cms

Their shares have dropped 27 points yesterday and 59 points over the paste five days (click on "5D" above the graph). If you look at the month they were shooting up until January the 2nd when it started dropping like a stone!

Could just be the news of the Ronnie story scared investors but if that trend continues they'll definately be skint!

Their dip coincides with the buying our club, I dont know how the stock market works but maybe this is a reason their value drop slightly, if you click on the year graph it shows a nice steady increase over the last 12 months, now they hold more businesses it will take a drop (i think correct me if im wrong)

I bet if you look at that graph at the end of the season it will have gone back up depending on our league position

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

I was thinking the same.

Even our apparent transfer policy reflects this - six month loan deals for RSC/Duff? When have we ever operated like that?

We have been successful by taking players other clubs had no use for and developing them, not taking past-it (and injury prone) players for six months.

Have Roque/Duff been signed on loan?? NO.

The Walker model over the past 5/6 years of finding players who were unwanted and developing them will relegate us. We have been so lucky with some of our purchases. Samba/Bentley/Santa/Nelsen/Warnock/Friedel were all gems but you cannot expect that to continue.

Some people are believing any random bits of speculation just to fit their arguments. The negativity and determination to believe every piece of negative news and disregard any positive news is getting tiring.

We're trying to sign Charlie Adam - Its not ambitious enough.

We try to sign Ronaldinho - he's past it, its a waste of money and just a publicity stunt.

Kean comes out and says we have a decent transfer budget - Some fake Twitter account states otherwise

[Hughesy]

Kean states that we have a good budget bigger than those around us, that's got be more than 5 million?

Dont talk about that - people dont like facts...lets just speculate we only have £5m please.

Where has this figure come from? I never saw any quotes from the owners or Kean, apart from Kean saying there was no fixed cap.

The OFFICIAL site.

How does Kean know what other managers has got?

Common sense? Rumours? Based on what teams are offering around?

Could just be the news of the Ronnie story scared investors but if that trend continues they'll definately be skint!

Definately? So that means you have seen their bank accounts and you know what personal wealth they hold?? Didnt think so. Lets just sit tight & wait eh!

[Paul]

Paul, as always of course you put your case in a rational and eloquent way and your opinion carries a lot more weight with me than most on here but I have to say on this occasion I think your stance is completely wrong.

The new owners are are coming over to me as a little bit like a kid with a new toy, possibly over eager to please which has led to one or two ultimately irrelevant communication gaffes. I for one would accept that initially as opposed to ten years of stony silence from the previous incumbents. Ultimately however they should be judged on the results and players they bring to the Club. You don't appear to be prepared to allow them that chance. It is not their fault if you dislike the influence other foreign owners have had on the game either. I'm sure you would be outraged if anyone judged foreigners in a generic or stereotypical way in any other walk of life.

We've also just come off the back of the most entertaining performance at Ewood in years with a fledgling manager who for me has done very well in his first few games in charge given the crippling injury list he has had to endure. He deserves everyone's support.

Ultimately I hope he and the new owners win your support. I'd hate you to paint yourself into a position whereby we reach a Cup semi final or final for example and you have to try and explain to Tom that you can't go because of your moral standpoint.

Yes I can see exactly what you are saying Rev. Clearly I don't have a problem with foreign people I just have a problem with foreign ownership - I know you will appreciate the difference and perhaps the reasons why. It has nothing to do with "not being British" but everything to do with understanding football. I have no intention of painting myself into a corner and while I shall miss today's game, I will not miss anymore - I have said this elsewhere.

If you pop onto the Steve Kean thread you'll see how pleased I was with the Liverpool performance and I also reported very positively about our trip to WBA. I enjoyed these two games more than any under Allardyce and I believe we may have unearthed a gem in SK, but it is early days. To have conjured up those two performances in a few weeks is a huge step forward.

As for the owners? I don't know, fro me they've made some huge gaffs which make the whole thing very questionable. We will have to wait and see.

[ultrablue]

I enjoyed these two games more than any under Allardyce and I believe we may have unearthed a gem in SK, but it is early days. To have conjured up those two performances in a few weeks is a huge step forward.

As for the owners? I don't know, fro me they've made some huge gaffs which make the whole thing very questionable. We will have to wait and see.

We may have unearthed a gem in Kean? You mean the owners did, seeing something in him and putting him in charge.

They have made gaffs yes, but only in interviews. They haven't got any big decisions wrong - well in my opinion.

[Mattyblue]

Dont talk about that - people dont like facts...lets just speculate we only have £5m please.

The OFFICIAL site.

Common sense? Rumours? Based on what teams are offering around?

Definately? So that means you have seen their bank accounts and you know what personal wealth they hold?? Didnt think so. Lets just sit tight & wait eh!

Kean saying there is more than 5 million doesn't make it a fact- SPENDING it does.

What will be your opinion on Feb 1 if we spend very little and we use the loan market?

Something like this perhaps: 'Wait till the summer you doom monger, January is a bad time anyway'.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Many football fans are only interested in the good news, not being interested in, for example, the huge, unsustainable debt that may be piled on to the club. In today's PL every action has a consequence and it is very foolish to live for today.

You're right I do have an agenda - it is this. I believe money and foreign ownership are killing our game. I have said this for years. I can accept we have little choice but foreign ownership for Rovers. I am happy to accept competent owners who will manage the club well. Sadly the current owners have not, in my opinion, demostrated the experience to manage our club. I will continue to try and argue this in a rational manner without resorting to being unpleasant to other MBers.

I feel so strongly about this ownership issue I will boycott today's game. For me this is extremely hard not least because it means one of my sons, who needs support to attend, cannot go. I think though the issues surrounding our proud club are sufficient to justify this.

I apologise if my thoughts offend you and others but all I do is try to present them in a reasonable and, I hope, well argued manner................and I still believe Phil Jones would have been sold in January, presumably to fund purchases but I don't know that.

The issue I have is that these current owners have only been in charge for 2 months. To judge them soley on that isnt enough to determine whether they, as owners are acting in the right way for Rovers. Their PR is a shambles and they got rid of Sam for too early, BUT having said that, their judgement of Steve Kean doesnt seem to have been too wide of the mark and if they pump money into the transfer window then we will be in a far stronger position then if we hadnt been bought.

To take a stand against foreign ownership is fine and I share your sentiments regarding that, however, as a club going forward I do not think you can blame Rovers for accepting foreign ownership. We desperately need investment and that wasnt going to come from within these shores.

My views on Venkys have yet to be decided. Im not running around deliriously excited about Ronaldinho wandering through the door but Im also not ready to boycott the club. They invested in the club and have promised funds to be made available.

They clearly have ambition and a determination to back that ambition. They deserve a chance to prove themselves. If they dont deliver then we, as fans have every right to vent our anger and frustration but lets not get carried away too early.

[brigrover]

Their shares have dropped 27 points yesterday and 59 points over the paste five days (click on "5D" above the graph). If you look at the month they were shooting up until January the 2nd when it started dropping like a stone!

What has share price got to do with wealth? They were never going to sell their share in Venkys to fund rovers anyway!

[American]

A few exceptions to the rule. Some of them don't even work.

Do you actually disagree with what I wrote about our success over the last few years, or is it just another arsey post blindly defending everything the new owners are doing?

Warnock, Bentley, Samba, Nelsen, Santa Cruz etc. That has the been the foundation of our success, not frivolously throwing money at loan deals.

We've bought both types of players, depending on the situation (Rev forgot Djorkaeff). Right now they are looking for stabalising the current squad with a mid-table or top 10 finish this season (hence short-term loans) and then moving on from there in the summer.

[deftangel]

As a long term reader of this site, I'm well aware of the contribution Paul has made to it over the last decade and since it's inception. Perhaps some of the newer posters would take the time to educate themselves.

Cause for concern is not unwarranted with things as they stand.

Equally, our new owners will be judged ultimately on their actions. One thing they've certainly managed to achieve is to create much more uncertainty then the opposite and undoubtedly put a few noses out of joint. Wholesale change creates an environment easily exploited where money and agendas is involved as it is, let alone with their schizophrenic PR.

BPF and Paul are posting what they hear in good faith, without any spin. Only time will tell if the information they are getting is born from fear, truth or something else.

[den]

We may have unearthed a gem in Kean? You mean the owners did, seeing something in him and putting him in charge.

Not many think the owners had a clue what they were doing on that one, ultrablue. Do you really think they watched him and had the footballing know how to make that decision, or do you think someone else advised them? Remember, he was appointed within c3 weeks of them buying the club.

[S15]

Not many think the owners had a clue what they were doing on that one, ultrablue. Do you really think they watched him and had the footballing know how to make that decision, or do you think someone else advised them? Remember, he was appointed within c3 weeks of them buying the club.

Somebody unearthed him.

Are you saying it's Kentaro and Jerome Anderson we should be praising?

[ultrablue]

Not many think the owners had a clue what they were doing on that one, ultrablue. Do you really think they watched him and had the footballing know how to make that decision, or do you think someone else advised them? Remember, he was appointed within c3 weeks of them buying the club.

Not many with footballing knowhow would have told them to sack Big Sam, but they made the decision anyway. All I'm saying is if we are going to blame the owners when things go wrong, we have to give them credit for the things they get right. As we can safely assume as you say, they are getting advice from somewhere, we have to give them both credit and criticism for acting what they see as the right advice.

[JMillZz]

They might seem a wee bit clueless as far as PR goes but even if they only put £5mill in this window it will be £5mill more than most our windows (discounting money from player sales)

To boycott the game today based on these views is pathetic and does it help anyone? No, maybe it will give some people a daft feeling of self-importance, but to me it just looks like a sad excuse. People can have their views on the owners but I'd rather be in this position than be stuck with the trust facing possible relegation every season.