[Archived] Transfer Window Part 2

[Majiball]

He's had 5 games and as things stand we have no idea what we have unearthed.

[67splitscreen]

Dont talk about that - people dont like facts...lets just speculate we only have £5m please.

The OFFICIAL site.

Common sense? Rumours? Based on what teams are offering around?

Definately? So that means you have seen their bank accounts and you know what personal wealth they hold?? Didnt think so. Lets just sit tight & wait eh!

Hughsey, do the Rao's/Desai's have a nice daughter?.

[yeti-dog]

OK I knew there would be some flak from somewhere so let me explain things. I only contribute to certain threads on the MB because much of it doesn't interest me and my football knowledge (players around the world etc) is not good enough these days. Long gone are the days when I could reel off a stream of football based facts. A good example of this is the "Marquee Signing" thread where I expressed the fantasy which went through my head watching the LIverpool game and it became apparent I had totally the wrong end of the stick. I very, very rarely even read the transfer window thread because I can't keep up, don't know 95% of the names and I'm only interested in players on our pitch not 500 pages of fantasy football. This window is a bit different though.

One of the things which interests me is the future of our club. I hear a lot of rumour and I'm not sure how much is true, but most of it would send the MB in to complete meltdown. I have never posted any of this on here and will only ever comment on what I see in the published media.

As regards Phil Jones I still believe he would have been sold. I refuse to reveal the source of this information but by way of explanation I will say this. Many sports people live ordinary lives, like you and me (I'm no one special, I have no club contacts). Just through every day life I meet / know / hear of many sports people. My son was coached by Laura Massaro (World No.8 squash), my wife knows her mother, I used the same gym as many Bolton and Rovers players, my wife knows Kevin Gallacher's wife, within literally one minute of my back door live Tom Smith (Lancashire cricketer), Nicky Reid (ex Rovers and Man City), Jason Quealy (British cyclist), my kids went to school with relatives of Neil Ruddock and still know them, one of my lads has two friends who play in the FL and one friend whose father manages in the FL, I know a Bolton Wanderers director. I won't bore you with any more except to say Phil is a local lad and I live locally - I do NOT know the player. The point is in my ordinary humdrum life I come across people in ordinary everyday settings and hear things.

Alan Nixon is a journalist and has to guard his sources. He is clearly an intelligent and articulate man. In the past I and others have asked him deeper questions about football and Rovers. These are never answered. To know what he writes he must have very good contacts, ergo he must know a great deal about events at Ewood, way beyond who we may or may not buy etc. That none of this ever gets a mention makes me question things. I don't doubt nicko I just question it, that's what we do with journalism and media, we should not believe everything that is published. He is is not a Rover and one question I would love to see answered is why is he here?

Many football fans are only interested in the good news, not being interested in, for example, the huge, unsustainable debt that may be piled on to the club. In today's PL every action has a consequence and it is very foolish to live for today.

You're right I do have an agenda - it is this. I believe money and foreign ownership are killing our game. I have said this for years. I can accept we have little choice but foreign ownership for Rovers. I am happy to accept competent owners who will manage the club well. Sadly the current owners have not, in my opinion, demostrated the experience to manage our club. I will continue to try and argue this in a rational manner without resorting to being unpleasant to other MBers.

I feel so strongly about this ownership issue I will boycott today's game. For me this is extremely hard not least because it means one of my sons, who needs support to attend, cannot go. I think though the issues surrounding our proud club are sufficient to justify this.

I apologise if my thoughts offend you and others but all I do is try to present them in a reasonable and, I hope, well argued manner................and I still believe Phil Jones would have been sold in January, presumably to fund purchases but I don't know that.

A fairly thoughtful post but I have to challenge you on the bit I've bolded. I'm no Nickoteen but you could ask that question of pretty much all the posters on here.I sense he likes being our resident journo and maybe likes the crack.

If you're going to ask that question I can suggest plenty of posters who desreve to be asked it.Their

recent posts have been manipulative,disengenuous,full of negativity with a clear agenda focussing on undermining our new owners before they've got their feet under the table.

For what it's worth I agree with much of Deryk Guyler's post but I think he aimed it at the wrong person in you.

[modes98]

We may have unearthed a gem in Kean? You mean the owners did, seeing something in him and putting him in charge.

They have made gaffs yes, but only in interviews. They haven't got any big decisions wrong - well in my opinion.

Ah so Mrs Desai is actually Mystic Meg. She hadn't even met the guy when she gave him control, she went on the word of those within the club who said he had good knowledge and the one I love the best "he stayed late". She only met him when he flew to India and failed to tell him about the 3 year contract which she then told the press about. Naive doesn't even start to cover these guys when it comes to PR. They need to know that every word and the way they say it is looked into in massive detail.

You can't tell if they have got the big decisions wrong yet. In all honesty I think we would have gained more points from the games under Big Sam and that's not through blind loyalty it is based upon my opinion of how well he had us set up, especially at home. The WBA win was the most impressive for me but as long as Kean plays Kalinic and gives him games I like the guy, he deserves a go.

[True Blue & White]

Definitely? So that means you have seen their bank accounts and you know what personal wealth they hold?? Didnt think so. Lets just sit tight & wait eh!

No but I have access to their company reports which they have to publish.

Venky's (India) Ltd

2009-2010 Profit after tax 5,432 Lakhs (£7,707,519)

2008-2009 Profit after tax 2,056 Lakhs (£2,917,279)

2007-2008 Profit after tax 2,661 Lakhs (£3,775,720)

2006-2007 Profit after tax 1,152 Lakhs (£1,634,584)

2005-2006 Profit after tax 1,177 Lakhs (£1,670,057)

And last year was their highest ever profit since they started. You really think they are going to blow the last 5 years worth of profits on a January transfer window? As for their "personal wealth", I thought we'd learnt from Ali Syed on that one.

Any personal wealth must have been amassed through Venky's who and barely made enough profit each year to re-invest in their own company let alone our club. Can these guys get multi-million pound loans, yeah probably..are they mega-rich? very unlikely...

And before anyone says Venky's is just "one of their businesses", it is their main business (by a country mile!!!!!!!), yes they have a few piddly small companies (VR Equipment, VRB etc) but the talk about human health foods and animal pharmaceuticals come under the "Venky's" umbrella (as confirmed by their website).

As far as I can tell, economically at least, there is no difference between the "VH Group" and "Venky's" and there is very little to suggest the above figures don't represent most, if not all, of their income.

But carry on pretending they have other businesses we don't know about that are making them billions. Carry on believing that trying to sign Ronaldnho proves they have money (rather than being for publicity safe in the knowledge they'd never get him and have to shell out), carry on pretending they have inherited wealth from mega rich ancestors that they've managed to keep secret from Forbes. Carry on beliving that LET report when they came in which they pulled after I emailed them telling they they'd got their numbers wrongs....

Overall, carry on doing this....

[philip369]

No but I have access to their company reports which they have to publish.

Venky's (India) Ltd

2009-2010 Profit after tax 5,432 Lakhs (£7,707,519)

2008-2009 Profit after tax 2,056 Lakhs (£2,917,279)

2007-2008 Profit after tax 2,661 Lakhs (£3,775,720)

2006-2007 Profit after tax 1,152 Lakhs (£1,634,584)

2005-2006 Profit after tax 1,177 Lakhs (£1,670,057)

And last year was their highest ever profit since they started. You really think they are going to blow the last 5 years worth of profits on a January transfer window? As for their "personal wealth", I thought we'd learnt from Ali Syed on that one.

Any personal wealth must have been amassed through Venky's who and barely made enough profit each year to re-invest in their own company let alone our club. Can these guys get multi-million pound loans, yeah probably..are they mega-rich? very unlikely...

And before anyone says Venky's is just "one of their businesses", it is their main business (by a country mile!!!!!!!), yes they have a few piddly small companies (VR Equipment, VRB etc) but the talk about human health foods and animal pharmaceuticals come under the "Venky's" umbrella (as confirmed by their website).

As far as I can tell, economically at least, there is no difference between the "VH Group" and "Venky's" and there is very little to suggest the above figures don't represent most, if not all, of their income.

But carry on pretending they have other businesses we don't know about that are making them billions. Carry on believing that trying to sign Ronaldnho proves they have money (rather than being for publicity safe in the knowledge they'd never get him and have to shell out), carry on pretending they have inherited wealth from mega rich ancestors that they've managed to keep secret from Forbes. Carry on beliving that LET report when they came in which they pulled after I emailed them telling they they'd got their numbers wrongs....

Overall, keep doing this....

Did these reports confirm directors remuneration?

Relevant because profits are stated after remuneration.

This may confirm whether the 'family' does have considerable personal wealth.

[OJRovers]

The share price drop will be nothing to do with Rovers - most global markets were off yesterday, probably due to some profit taking and movement on the dollar. If you look at the 12 month performance of their shares, they are still nearly doubled in value.

Isn't it the family that has bought Rovers anyway?

[sweet]

On the interview by sky sports news, in which they show off their cars. The reporter actually says they made 130 million pound profit last year.

So I wonder where they got that information.

[imy9]

The problem I has is that there IS a lot of scaremongering going on at the moment- this is not directed at anyone in particular but some of the comments:

1. Rumour JW and Tom Finn are resigning because of the way the club is going. Fact Both are still here.

2. Rumour Venkys have withdrawn funding for local community projects. Fact Not withdrawn funding.

3. Rumour Venkys are selling Phil Jones to fund new player purchases. Fact Ms Desai has said no young player like Jones will be sold.

4. Rumour There is a mutiny in the dressing room and at least FOUR players will be handing in transfer requests. Fact Nobody has handed in a request, in fact Robbo and Nelsen want life deals.

5. Rumour SEM/Kentaro will be giving us dud players like Geovanni and Boyd. Fact At the time of writing no Kentaro player is on Kean's transfer list.

There are plenty of things that the owners can be criticized for, communication being one of them, bad timing in sacking Sam being another. However a lot of things have not happened. yet a lot are willing to believe the worst.

Venkys dont have money? They had 50+ top of the range cars shown, on Sky, costing at least 50K, Bentley continental is worth at least 150K, how much did they spend on those, thats loose cash!

I will reiterate my original line, which is I will wait til 1st Feb 2011, at that time I will judge VH Group, the manager, the signings and progress made.

True Blue, their biggest company is Venkatesh Hatcheries, which is NOT listed.

EDIT- apologies watched the video again to clarify they have at least 75 cars and three cars I saw briefly are worth over 100K each, but no they do not have money to throw around...

[philipl]

The share price drop will be nothing to do with Rovers - most global markets were off yesterday, probably due to some profit taking and movement on the dollar. If you look at the 12 month performance of their shares, they are still nearly doubled in value.

Isn't it the family that has bought Rovers anyway?

There are concerns being voiced in India that the family have taken their eye off the ball of running Venky's. From what I can see, there is a 10% variance between Venky's and the market so something has pushed Venky's down.

[Sandiway Blue]

The problem I has is that there IS a lot of scaremongering going on at the moment- this is not directed at anyone in particular but some of the comments:

1. Rumour JW and Tom Finn are resigning because of the way the club is going. Fact Both are still here.

2. Rumour Venkys have withdrawn funding for local community projects. Fact Not withdrawn funding.

3. Rumour Venkys are selling Phil Jones to fund new player purchases. Fact Ms Desai has said no young player like Jones will be sold.

4. Rumour There is a mutiny in the dressing room and at least FOUR players will be handing in transfer requests. Fact Nobody has handed in a request, in fact Robbo and Nelsen want life deals.

5. Rumour SEM/Kentaro will be giving us dud players like Geovanni and Boyd. Fact At the time of writing no Kentaro player is on Kean's transfer list.

There are plenty of things that the owners can be criticized for, communication being one of them, bad timing in sacking being another. However a lot of things have not happened. yet a lot are willing to believe the worst.

Venkys dont have money? They had 50+ top of the range cars shown, on Sky, costing at least 50K, Bentley continental is worth at least 150K, how much did they spend on those, thats loose cash!

I will reiterate my original line, which is I will wait til 1st Feb 2011, at that time I will judge VH Group, the manager, the signings and progress made.

True Blue, their biggest company is Venkatesh Hatcheries, which is NOT listed.

Sensible post that illustrates the situation perfectly.

[Bazrakats]

If they only had £10million were did they get the £40 million to buy us.

Do you not believe that after four years of trying to be sold the trust and John Williams did not check that these people had the money to run the club. Wasn't that one of the reasons it took so long for the sale to go through.

The only bad thing we can say about Venkys so far is their poor PR.

Just remember we have only had 8 days since the window opened lets judge them come the end of the window.

[True Blue & White]

On the interview by sky sports news, in which they show off their cars. The reporter actually says they made 130 million pound profit last year.

So I wonder where they got that information.

Probably the LET who as I showed above added an extra nought... Their company accounts are freely available on the internet

As for the cars, JK from Jamiroquai own a lot of cars too but I wouldn't say he is rich enough to run a Premier League club.

[NookRover]

Had to double check then to make sure I was in the transfer thread!!!!

[True Blue & White]

If they only had £10million were did they get the £40 million to buy us.

No one said they only had £10m, but their company has yet to make an after tax profit in the tens of millions. I believe they have hundreds of millions in assets so aquiring £40m to buy a football club isn't that hard (i.e loan).

But do I believe that £5m is a lot of money to them, yes I do.

Do you not believe that after four years of trying to be sold the trust and John Williams did not check that these people had the money to run the club. Wasn't that one of the reasons it took so long for the sale to go through.

Thee was no requiremnt to find people richer than BMI and Venky's are worth less and make less that the Trust's airline company.

Just remember we have only had 8 days since the window opened lets judge them come the end of the window.

Oh I will, but if we do end up spending tens of millions I'd love to know where they've got (err borrowed) it from.

[philip369]

Probably the LET who as I showed above added an extra nought... There company sccounts are freely available on the internet

As for the cars, JK from Jamiroquai own a lot of cars too but I wouldn't say he is rich enough to run a Premier League club.

Formulate an arguement from bits of information obtained from the internet,

or,

Assume that the market leaders in this field (Rothchild's) are worth the millions they will have been paid.

[Uxbridge rover]

Had to double check then to make sure I was in the transfer thread!!!!

Are we ? I thought we were in the broken record banging on about money we may or may not have thread. Can we keep on transfers please ?

[Bazrakats]

Fair point. The main point I was trying to get across was we should give them time.

It's still early in the window and no one has said we are not buying anyone.

ps. Not nitpicking but the trust own flybe. The Germans own BMI nowadays.

[S15]

I've said this once in another thread and I'll say it once here; I believe the Rao family have a personal wealth far greater than any that Venkys has ever brought them.

[imy9]

I just thought, is Blackburn Rovers part of the VH Group? It is a private company which means that the accounts, profits/losses do not need to be shared with anyone. This is a major purchase so obviously the world knows about it, but what about the purchases that they have made which have not made the news?

They own 12.5% of a project in Lavasa, the project will cost 3000 crore (not good with maths buts it hundreds of millions POUNDS), is this listed on their website?

[philipl]

I've said this once in another thread and I'll say it once here; I believe the Rao family have a personal wealth far greater than any that Venkys has ever brought them.

It is about four times bigger than the Venky's numbers from the research I have done.

Impressive but not Premier League.

[deftangel]

Why is Nicko here? We should be over this by now. He thanks posters for PM's and insight often enough to make it clear to me that he at least gets some information from here, be it background, contextual, confirmatory or otherwise. As for the rest, often the limitations of print means various things don't get in the paper. Perhaps having done the work he might as well share it?

Why *else* would he be here? To sell papers? Please

My main concern with transfers at the moment is the suggestion that Roque and Duff were the first choice targets, makes me a bit nervous about the second choices.

As for the Jones/Samba theory, they don't stand up to rudimentary analysis for me. If Samba is being sold to raise funds for transfers in the absence of Jones, that would surely go against the comments he's reported to have made? Surely he'd then be complicit in the whole thing. Would he stand for that? Wasn't he supposed to have integrity for "speaking out"? We can't have it both ways.

[True Blue & White]

Formulate an arguement from bits of information obtained from the internet,

or,

Assume that the market leaders in this field (Rothchild's) are worth the millions they will have been paid.

Ahh the old "the internet is unreliable" argument. These are Official Company Reports that they have to pulish by law, whether I got them from a reputable fincial site or walked in and got them personally from Mrs Desai they are factual....

And again, The Rothchilds had no obligation to find "rich" owners, why would they? All they had to find were people that were able to secure the funds to buy the club and probably some minimum short term plan. Do you seriosuly think the Rothchild's made decsiion based on wqhat they could offer a a transfer budget? Really?

[imy9]

Ahh the old "the internet is unreliable" argument. These are Official Company Reports that they have to pulish by law, whether I got them from a reputable fincial site or walked in and got them personally from Mrs Desai they are factual....

And again, The Rothchilds had no obligation to find "rich" owners, why would they? All they had to find were people that were able to secure the funds to buy the club and probably some minimum short term plan. Do you seriosuly think the Rothchild's made decsiion based on wqhat they could offer a a transfer budget? Really?

Venkatesh Hatcheries is their biggest company and is private and not listed.

[Pete1981]

Ahh the old "the internet is unreliable" argument. These are Official Company Reports that they have to pulish by law, whether I got them from a reputable fincial site or walked in and got them personally from Mrs Desai they are factual....

And again, The Rothchilds had no obligation to find "rich" owners, why would they? All they had to find were people that were able to secure the funds to buy the club and probably some minimum short term plan. Do you seriosuly think the Rothchild's made decsiion based on wqhat they could offer a a transfer budget? Really?

Can you read words aswell as figures, If you read the name of the thread it is worded Transfer Window Part 2 not How much is Venkys really worth