[Archived] Transfer Window Part 3

[dopper69]

Warnock and Collins for Samba is a terrible deal. Especially when they STILL owe us money for Warnock!!!

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

It is about the new owners and their desire and committment to keep hold of the best players. Failure to do so well shows them up.

So you'd hold on to Samba despite him wanting out..?? Doesnt sound like a good move to me. If he wants to leave, he wants to leave. His motives for doing so can be questioned but I fail to see how its our owners fault.

Surely we should be criticising Samba, our club captain for wanting to leave Rovers instead of blaming the owners for potentially selling him..??!

[John]

Keep hold of Samba until we can, at the very least, get another centre half as good. Selling him for someone not as good is plain stupid and unnecessary. If we want a left back - and it's not a priority, then buy who we want, when we want.

Simples.

Exactly - need strong management in situations like this in order to protect the interest of the most important thing, the club.

[Sandiway Blue]

Why are you all talking about Collins like he is really awful?

When we signed him I admit he was just one of those players I didn't really concentrate on and I assumed he was just average but he's been really good for Villa, think it now shows exactly how overrated Matthew Upson is because Collins was certainly the better of the two in that partnership.

He's had a hit and miss season this year, they all have, but remember how exposed our back four actually has been at some stages, with two kids in Hogg and Bannan in front of it as most of the season we've had none of our senior centre mids fit, him and Dunne didn't become awful players overnight and certainly Collins is the last of our centre backs that i'd want to lose! If that deal happened you have a good player in Collins, Warnock, yeah fair enough he is ###### now but there have been rumours for ages that it's because he is unhappy and because Houllier made it clear he wasn't in his long term plans, pretty difficult to pych yourself up for games in that knowledge, while the club is actively trying to get Bridge to replace you.

My thoughts exactly,Collins first season at Villa Park was exceptional.Although i would prefer to try to sign somebody on their own merit and not because they are part-exchange.

[nicko]

Cheers Nicko, it looks like your new found mate hasnt got much of a clue in the transfer market.

Have a word please!

So you think somebody might have the makings of being a manager...and he's a 'mate.'

Right.

[vintageadidas]

If Samba does leave he will no doubt catch the "leaving Rovers disease" which means his form will drop, his new club fans will think why did we pay so much for this guy? And his career will take 2 or 3 steps backwards over the next 18 months. We all know many of our former players who wanted out publicly have moved on and sat on the bench.

However, don't get me wrong i would rather keep him at Ewood. I must note though, the lad is worth more than £8m - i don't think we should be accepting anything under £10m for him.

Lescott - £23m

Shawcross - valued at £20m

Cahill - valued at £20m

Take the fact they are English out of the equation (half it) and it indictes the above three are better than Samba; i am not having this!

Givet wants to return to France and i think he will go in the summer.

Very quiet yet again, will i be watching SSN on the final day again with nothing new in the squad?

[yeti-dog]

Here, here, Steo, for me, Samba has to be here long after this summer along with all our best players if Venky's have any desire and ambition for the club.

Now is the time to find Venky's and Kentaro out !

You just don't get it do you. Samba wants to go,that doesn't equate to us lacking ambition.

Ronaldo wanted to leave Man Utd,they sold him,are you going to accuse them of lacking ambition too?

[John]

So you'd hold on to Samba despite him wanting out..?? Doesnt sound like a good move to me. If he wants to leave, he wants to leave. His motives for doing so can be questioned but I fail to see how its our owners fault.

Surely we should be criticising Samba, our club captain for wanting to leave Rovers instead of blaming the owners for potentially selling him..??!

Why get ourselves into a situation where we could potentially weaken ourselves? Only if a top class replacement comes in to replace him, that could change things.

Slippery slope when you replace your best/better players with chumps, we've been down that road before.

[SamTheShrew]

Agreed John, and yet we seem to be doing the opposite.

Samba not in squad yesterday due to 'flu symptoms.' Be that as it may, also convenient he avoided being cup tied.

And we are still owed 2 million for Warnock, and yet seem quite happy to ignore this and undervalue one of our main assets

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Why get ourselves into a situation where we could potentially weaken ourselves? Only if a top class replacement comes in to replace him, that could change things.

Slippery slope when you replace your best/better players with chumps, we've been down that road before.

I agree with your argument in the most part, my main point is that people are blaming Venky's for this when surely there should be more blame attached to Samba for leaving in the first place...?

I personally view both Warnock and Collins as decent players. This season they havent been great but last year they were rock solid.

[Amo]

If Samba is absolutely intent on leaving and cannot be swayed, I reckon we should make a deal to keep him for the rest of the season and sell him in the summer. That would be best for both parties. At the moment, it looks like we're just going to sell him on the cheap to the first serious bidder.

[JAL]

You just don't get it do you. Samba wants to go,that doesn't equate to us lacking ambition.

I just don't get it, obviously not.

Samba can go if a better player comes in to replace him, right now the suggested alternatives are not any better, so I have to question were exactly is the ambition if your going to bring in inferior players to replace your better players.

EH !

[lcs100]

Any timeframe on the Samba thing Nicko? How significant Collins playing yesterday for Villa

?

[SamTheShrew]

I just don't get it, obviously not.

Samba can go if a better player comes in to replace him, right now the suggested alternatives are not any better, so I have to question were exactly is the ambition if your going to bring in inferior players to replace your better players.

EH !

In one

[dopper69]

I just don't get it, obviously not.

Samba can go if a better player comes in to replace him, right now the suggested alternatives are not any better, so I have to question were exactly is the ambition if your going to bring in inferior players to replace your better players.

EH !

Agree entirley. If/when the big man leaves it should be on our terms (i.e improvement of the squad) not the buying club's.

[deftangel]

As I said on Part II, the Samba conspiracy theory doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

If he doesn't want to go to Villa, he won't go. He's got a contract, players hold the upper hand in these situations. Why else have we been unable to shift deadwood like Grella despite it being abundantly clear we want rid? If our new owners have some magical ability to sell players at will we'll be better off in the long run!

If he's being given a sweetener by the club to go quietly then there would be no reason for him to comment on the matter publicly. So the alternative would be that he doesn't want to go but his actively complicit in this owners evil scheme to deliberately be making misleading comments?

Or perhaps our owners, despite showing the communication skills of a brick have managed to manipulate him in to going to a club which do not at present seemingly match the profile of one he would normally consider going to voluntarily when this was their evil plan all along.

All of this so that they can match their promise of spending at least £5m in the transfer market, no wait, get in a replacement centre back and a left back?

Presumably no SEM agents are in on this deal as I can't believe that angle would have been missed. I really don't see how it adds up at present.

Anyhow, if Samba wants to leave it should be for money only and ideally at the end of the season. As much as I said that players have all the power, this shouldn't be difficult to achieve (if his stated intentions are correct) and there appears to be little danger of him sulking about it going by the Liverpool game. I don't see how a swap deal is in the best interests of anyone. Hopefully we're just stringing Villa along

[67splitscreen]

Nicko, in the last thread, you said RSC would cost 2m in wages.

19 weeks left to the end of the season.

105kpw??????? are you including PAYE in your figure.

[Jim Royle]

In this instance i just don't get Nicko's view of the world and in fairness he has been solid on this one for a week now. I cannot see the benefit to most parties except for perhaps Houllier and Warnock.

Samba would be a joining a club with a larger fanbase (when things are going well that is!) but Villa are a club in turmoil and are going through a phase of financial prudence after the years of the scatter cash MON management - so the future of Villa is more likely mid - lower half of the table. Yes Rovers are in turmoil but just maybe the possibility is that the club could be on the up.

Rovers - what do we get - two decent defenders, but neither would be on the A list or B list and so would be massively compromising the managers freedom of choice in the transfer market. The application Samba showed vs LFC was excellent and so kiss and cuddle until the summer and then reveiw the situation when all parties would know a little more about Venkys ambitions.

Collins is a regular for Villa so why transfer to BRFC?

Houllier and Warnock do not want each others company so they want the move.

The only two clubs ( in England) that I have seen linked with us are Villa and Arsenal - both have French managers - perhaps that is too simple a view but I'm sure big Chris would like some more recognition in the place where he grew up. However should say a Arse or Spurs move for him then we all have to admit that Samba would want this and we can have little to complain about provided we are adequately compensated.

So rather than take a competitors unwanted off their hands Rovers should demand that he will only be sold on our terms and that mean top clubs only and for a big wedge.

So come on Nicko, why are you so strong on this deal when it doesn't suit so many of the parties involved?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Why are you all talking about Collins like he is really awful?

When we signed him I admit he was just one of those players I didn't really concentrate on and I assumed he was just average but he's been really good for Villa, think it now shows exactly how overrated Matthew Upson is because Collins was certainly the better of the two in that partnership.

He's had a hit and miss season this year, they all have, but remember how exposed our back four actually has been at some stages, with two kids in Hogg and Bannan in front of it as most of the season we've had none of our senior centre mids fit, him and Dunne didn't become awful players overnight and certainly Collins is the last of our centre backs that i'd want to lose! If that deal happened you have a good player in Collins, Warnock, yeah fair enough he is ###### now but there have been rumours for ages that it's because he is unhappy and because Houllier made it clear he wasn't in his long term plans, pretty difficult to pych yourself up for games in that knowledge, while the club is actively trying to get Bridge to replace you.

I don't think Collins is awful Tom. I think he's a steady no nonsense centre half, never your best player but never your worst player either. A good lower level Premier League journeyman. Problem is we don't need that sort of player, we've already got several. Samba is on his day the best stopper in the league with the exception of Vidic and maybe John Terry on a good day ( does he have any now ? ) You don't park the bus you park Samba, he's a one man wall. That's the difference.

To the Rovers fans reading this ---

If he were to go and Venkies said OK we can break the bank to buy a replacement as good or even better who would we buy and how much would that player cost ?

[gumboots]

In this instance i just don't get Nicko's view of the world and in fairness he has been solid on this one for a week now. I cannot see the benefit to most parties except for perhaps Houllier and Warnock.

Samba would be a joining a club with a larger fanbase (when things are going well that is!) but Villa are a club in turmoil and are going through a phase of financial prudence after the years of the scatter cash MON management - so the future of Villa is more likely mid - lower half of the table. Yes Rovers are in turmoil but just maybe the possibility is that the club could be on the up.

Rovers - what do we get - two decent defenders, but neither would be on the A list or B list and so would be massively compromising the managers freedom of choice in the transfer market. The application Samba showed vs LFC was excellent and so kiss and cuddle until the summer and then reveiw the situation when all parties would know a little more about Venkys ambitions.

Collins is a regular for Villa so why transfer to BRFC?

Houllier and Warnock do not want each others company so they want the move.

The only two clubs ( in England) that I have seen linked with us are Villa and Arsenal - both have French managers - perhaps that is too simple a view but I'm sure big Chris would like some more recognition in the place where he grew up. However should say a Arse or Spurs move for him then we all have to admit that Samba would want this and we can have little to complain about provided we are adequately compensated.

So rather than take a competitors unwanted off their hands Rovers should demand that he will only be sold on our terms and that mean top clubs only and for a big wedge.

So come on Nicko, why are you so strong on this deal when it doesn't suit so many of the parties involved?

Add to that we won yesterday and are therefore in the next round of the cup too and would have our hands tied behind our back in terms of team selection in that we couldn't play Collins, they could play Samba and what's the betting that at half past 3 they pull Villa Rovers or vice versa out of the hat for the next round of the Cup. Samba plays and is immense and puts us out. If he's going, he's going but not yet and not on their terms.

[nicko]

Nicko, in the last thread, you said RSC would cost 2m in wages.

19 weeks left to the end of the season.

105kpw??????? are you including PAYE in your figure.

When you take a player on loan it is until the end of the football year...which is the end of June.

So come on Nicko, why are you so strong on this deal when it doesn't suit so many of the parties involved?

What?

Villa have been in for Samba...not me...biggest club in for the player...up to him if he fancies it...up to Rovers if they sell or trade at the right price.

Rovers like Collins in exchange...not me...although he is a steady player.

Now Warnock has come out of nowhere and been suggested as the makeweight to make it two for one...not my idea...don't see the need.

Would this be a good point to remind you I am not Gerard Houllier or Steve Kean?

Ffs. I report the things. Not set them up.

[True Blue & White]

Sold against his weill?

Doesn't fancy Villa?

What level of research is this? Have you spoken to Samba or one of his several agents?

Didnt think so...

I spoke to Daniel Wiltgen who confirmed Samba didn't fancy Villa.

[nicko]

Any timeframe on the Samba thing Nicko? How significant Collins playing yesterday for Villa

?

I thought Collins's appearance was odd. But then again a lot of odd things happen at Villa right now.

[Iceman]

why dont we pay Samba more, ffs we paid MGP more. if its money, pay him more. i just dont buy into this, he wants out, because of the Sam sacking.

[67splitscreen]

When you take a player on loan it is until the end of the football year...which is the end of June.

OK still 80kpw, is that the deal then.