[Archived] Jack Straw`s comments

[cletus]

It is pretty obvious this thread will be closed, but....we`ve all seen or heard Jack Straw`s comments on the news today.

Is he right or wrong to have spoken about the subject?

[Mattyblue]

He is obviously not going to stand for election again, so he speaks now. Think that says it all about the man.

[Glenn]

It's up to you guys whether it gets banned, but I'll wager the usual suspects will turn up and turn it into a race debate, but you may yet surprise me.

I've yet to hear it in full and the version on the BBC R5 news sounded like he'd gone out of his way to talk about specific groups and not a generalization, but one of my normally very level headed British-Pakistani mates is incensed by it, so I'm waiting until I hear the full thing before I decide how I feel.

[Mattyblue]

It does and has gone on in Blackburn for years.

Of course, I know exactly how this thread will turn out though...

[thenodrog]

I've yet to hear it in full and the version on the BBC R5 news sounded like he'd gone out of his way to talk about specific groups and not a generalization, but one of my normally very level headed British-Pakistani mates is incensed by it, so I'm waiting until I hear the full thing before I decide how I feel.

If Jacks attempts are as successful as his attempts to persuade women against the burkha then we can expect grooming under age white girls to become virtually compulsory amongst the IndoPak community in the next few years!

More seriously this issue has gone on too long and is too widespread to be camouflaged by people like Vaz who seek to hush it all up by weilding the race card yet again. Innocent people whether black, brown, white and whether christian, moslem or whatever will have nothing to fear and should unite in condemnation of this filthy practice. Paedophilia is wrong but may just possibly be described as a mental illness in an individual. Organised grooming on the other hand is not an illness but is an evil, abhorrent and wicked practice. It's like the difference between a crime of passion killing and premeditated murder. The issue should be to put a stop to such and if a few feathers are ruffled then so what?

History would record Jack Straw in a much better light if he had taken this stance a generation ago!

[Steve Moss]

In my opinion, it has nothing to do with the victim's race or that of the defendant's. The issue of race is distraction. In my opinion, it should have everything to do with the age of the victim. I'm not sure of the age of consent in England, but if the girls were as young as 12 they are still children. And 8-11 years for sexually abusing children is far too light. The convicts should be subject to hard labor and not even given the possibility of parole until they are grey haired geezers.

[Kelbo]

If Jacks attempts are as successful as his attempts to persuade women against the burkha then we can expect grooming under age white girls to become virtually compulsory amongst the IndoPak community in the next few years!

More seriously this issue has gone on too long and is too widespread to be camouflaged by people like Vaz who seek to hush it all up by weilding the race card yet again. Innocent people whether black, brown, white and whether christian, moslem or whatever will have nothing to fear and should unite in condemnation of this filthy practice. Paedophilia is wrong but may just possibly be described as a mental illness in an individual. Organised grooming on the other hand is not an illness but is an evil, abhorrent and wicked practice. It's like the difference between a crime of passion killing and premeditated murder. The issue should be to put a stop to such and if a few feathers are ruffled then so what?

History would record Jack Straw in a much better light if he had taken this stance a generation ago!

Bingo! 100% agreed

[FourLaneBlue]

It is right that Straw has commented upon it however, haven't there been similar incidents in his own constituency in years past? Why the hell did he not comment on those but instead commented on something that happened in Derby?

I think we all know the answer. He is not stupid, he did not want to ruffle feathers or antagonise those who vote for him.

It is surely true, however, that some view white girls are seen as "easy meat" as he suggested. There is one thing I do not understand about Vaz's comments. Surely those comments from Straw are more damning of the white community than that of the asians? What kind of culture have we bred in which girls are thought of being so easy and wanton they will easily sleep with men who ply them with booze and gifts? What the hell are these parents up to? Don't they have a clue about the lives of their own daughters? Presumably the social services are scared to act due to fear of being perceived as racist. How the hell do that come to pass? Worried about being seen as racist for protecting children?

I tell you what...these kind of things say a lot about modern Britain. The abusers are only one part of the sordid picture.

[Ozz]

From what I see these days, I would say race is not an exclusive criteria when it comes to pinpointing which sections of male youths view certain white females as `Easy meat`. Just watch the Jeremy Kyle show.

[philipl]

I think this article in the Daily Telegraph quietly and dispassionately analyses the situation.

Yes there are clearly men within the Muslim community who indulge in abhorant behaviour. However, the incidence of recorded sexual crime amongst Asians per head of population is lower than that of the other racial groupings living in the UK.

[thenodrog]

From what I see these days, I would say race is not an exclusive criteria when it comes to pinpointing which sections of male youths view certain white females as `Easy meat`. Just watch the Jeremy Kyle show.

Not much issue with single 18 year old lads and single 15 year old girls but it's groups of middle aged men that is the issue.

[thenodrog]

I think this article in the Daily Telegraph quietly and dispassionately analyses the situation.

Yes there are clearly men within the Muslim community who indulge in abhorant behaviour. However, the incidence of recorded sexual crime amongst Asians per head of population is lower than that of the other racial groupings living in the UK.

You must have missed this bit Philip. Here read it again......

"Even last week, one Guardian columnist dismissed the Muslim grooming claims as “part of the ignoble tradition of racialising criminality in this country”.

Even though sex crimes committed by Pakistanis may be no more prevalent than those committed by people of any other race, that still leaves the question of whether those crimes are being less effectively tackled by the authorities. Some might argue that the relative lack of Asian sex offenders in prison reflects the authorities’ relative unwillingness to pursue Asian sex offenders.

Criminologists say that that is probably not the explanation. But as with any offenders of any race, people commit crime more if they think they can get away with it. And in the eyes of many people in East Lancashire, there was, at least until recently, a willingness to let Pakistani offenders get away with it, for fear of being accused of racism. The danger, of course, is that that stokes the very bigotry it seeks to avoid."

Gunner. I have warned against the consequences and effects of sweeping issues like this under the carpet. I'm frequently called a racist for airing similar opinions yet you compliment the writer on this occasion ....... cos it's in the Telegraph.

btw why did you choose to quote the paragraph that you did? There are many paragraphs worth quoting too. For instance

"Straw says young men “fizzing and popping with testosterone” are taking up with white children because “Pakistani-heritage girls are off limits and they are expected to marry a Pakistani girl from Pakistan”. Rafique says the former Home Secretary is living in the 1970s: “These guys are just as happy to groom Asian girls if they can get them,” he says. “It’s just that the parents of Asian girls tend to keep a closer eye on them.”

Note Rafique stopped just short of pointing out that as a rule their family members don't go through legal channels but rather the more traditional routes of cutting your head off up a back street, or burning your house down or burning your body on a roadside etc etc. No wonder white girls are more willing is it? No one cares about them.

imo Integration is overlapping at the fringes but as a whole is simply not happening in Blackburn and similar towns, nor in my opinion will it ever whilst indoctrinated religion continues to be allowed to drive in the wedge from infancy.

[Glenn]

Fancy sticking an "allegedly" on the fist part of that last paragraph, or rewording it ? As otherwise you've just described rather a lot of people of being murdering arsonists, which I'm sure wasn't your intent.

[thenodrog]

Fancy sticking an "allegedly" on the fist part of that last paragraph, or rewording it ? As otherwise you've just described rather a lot of people of being murdering arsonists, which I'm sure wasn't your intent.

Too late Glenn. Edit buttons gone. Don't know why you find it so bothersome. Plain truth is that the punishment under English law is somewhat diminished from that involving the 'honour' principle.

btw You might point out the last para of Philips link to your mate...

"Last night, in the inevitable political row, some of the usual suspects accused Straw of “stereotyping a whole community”. But this subject does not have to become a racial melodrama; it is, principally, a crime. We can tackle it – but first we have to start talking about it."

[philipl]

As usual 'drog misses the point.

[dazmaz]

Not much issue with single 18 year old lads and single 15 year old girls but it's groups of middle aged men that is the issue.

err the age of concent in the UK is 16 thus meaning an 18 year old male sleeping with a 15 year old female is illegal

[Glenn]

Gordon, Philip, please don't turn this into something personal

[cletus]

I think Jack Straw is right to have highlighted & spoken out on this vile crime......although i do agree he`s years too late in doing so.

[thenodrog]

err the age of concent in the UK is 16 thus meaning an 18 year old male sleeping with a 15 year old female is illegal

You'd better tell that to the millions that do or did then. It's normal, natural even for teenage girls to date lads a year or two older than themselves, prosecutions for such are exceptionally rare and rightly so. The problem Jack Straw is rather tardily concerned about is involving males (frequently plural) double, treble or even more the childs age. You are just being pedantic and you know it.

[thenodrog]

I think Jack Straw is right to have highlighted & spoken out on this vile crime......although i do agree he`s years too late in doing so.

Indeed Cletus. This is not a new issue is it? On the one hand I applaud his action but on the other I find it contemptible that he is coming out with this only now that he has no general election to face. Sums the man up completely the fact that he has been aware of this problem in his constituency for years during which he occupied senior governement positions including that of Home Sec and even worse Justice Secretary. He should be derided and publically pilloried for such a dereliction of responsibility but I'll wager all we'll see at the end of his days as Blackburn's MP is him sloping off to retirement to his home in the Home counties and no doubt his seat in the House of Lords once the Queen has rested her sword on his narrow shoulders.

[Mattyblue]

Indeed Cletus. This is not a new issue is it? On the one hand I applaud his action but on the other I find it contemptible that he is coming out with this only now that he has no general election to face. Sums the man up completely the fact that he has been aware of this problem in his constituency for years during which he occupied senior governement positions including that of Home Sec and even worse Justice Secretary. He should be derided and publically pilloried for such a dereliction of responsibility but I'll wager all we'll see at the end of his days as Blackburn's MP is him sloping off to retirement to his home in the Home counties and no doubt his seat in the House of Lords once the Queen has rested her sword on his narrow shoulders.

As well as taking in Rovers away games in London, of course...

[JAL]

Indeed Cletus. This is not a new issue is it? On the one hand I applaud his action but on the other I find it contemptible that he is coming out with this only now that he has no general election to face. Sums the man up completely the fact that he has been aware of this problem in his constituency for years during which he occupied senior governement positions including that of Home Sec and even worse Justice Secretary. He should be derided and publically pilloried for such a dereliction of responsibility but I'll wager all we'll see at the end of his days as Blackburn's MP is him sloping off to retirement to his home in the Home counties and no doubt his seat in the House of Lords once the Queen has rested her sword on his narrow shoulders.

Totally agree Thenodrog.

Straws timing is despicable, as this has been going on for the past decade or so here in Blackburn, and hes managed to keep the perpetrators out of jail during that time.

Jack Straw should hang his head in shame over his failure to resolve this problem.

[thenodrog]

Just to provide update. The LT's front page...... http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/8780436.Jack_Straw_sex_grooming_comments__the_reaction/?ref=mr

Obviously we can expect opposition from the odd ward councillor or 2 ( or 17 even) but by coming out in opposition to Straw Kate Hollern hardly covers herself in glory. That said we need to remember that unlike Jack Straw she is fortunate to still be the leader of a minority white / majority immigrant adminsitration in Blackburn Council and obviously intent on putting politics first and foremost before the welfare of the citizens. I wonder if she can sleep at night.

It's a right old hornets nest and Mohammed Shafique, director of national Muslim youth group the Ramadhan Foundation doesn't beat about the bush either by suggesting that as well as being sex criminals the action of these IndoPak gangs in targetting white girls is actually racist.

[SAS]

As the LET reported last night, they set up a campaign in 2006. Why is Straw 5 years late with this!!!

Its amazing how much differently asian men treat their own compared to white girls. Although i`m mainly talking about young asian men rather than middle aged.

Once they are out of the asian community it seems their respect for women and tradition is also left behind.

EDIT: This is not a sweeping generalization, just one aimed at the gang type person.

I know plenty of young asian men that are lovely people and do have respect and keep to their traditions very well.

[thenodrog]

EDIT: This is not a sweeping generalization, just one aimed at the gang type person.

I know plenty of young asian men that are lovely people and do have respect and keep to their traditions very well.

SAS they are the ones who if they value their community and their traditions should be addressing the problem as a priority and outing these people by gathering info and evidence and reporting them to the law. I am fairly sure the indigenous community would do given chance. It's the same with suspected terrorist activity, it's down to the immigrant communities to bring radicalised muslims to the attention of the security forces. They must see and recognise such individuals first. Them and us should not be down to religion or skin colour it should be between good and bad, and right and wrong.