[Archived] Daily Mail article on the Bollywood billionaires of Blackburn

[JohnD]

... or even the professional ones (we have at least 3 on here).

Yes, of course, them as well though I always question the use of the word professional for such occupations.

[Glenn]

I have to be nice about accountants, both my personal accountant and the site's accountant can be found on here.

Anyway, the SI article is intresting, but I think he hits the nail on his head in the second paragraph.

"Partly this is because only one of the 28 firms – Venky’s (India) Limited – is required to make public its accounts"

So the rest could be worth tens of billions, or nothing, how can we tell ?

[JohnD]

So the rest could be worth tens of billions, or nothing, how can we tell ?

Only time will tell but too many have been reluctant to grant it.

It would be so very strange for a group of people to invest so much with a view to losing the lot. Their PR has been abysmal but we haven't all been brilliant on here have we?

[Wiggy]

The one part of the original article I can't get my head round is the fact that they employ 500,000 people (half of them directly).

The core poultry business ( an industry that I have some knowledge of)is notorious for having very high input costs. The feed business, for instance, would have input costs of at least 80% before labour costs and profits. ( Venky's make 100,000 tonnes of feed which at present would account for at least $300 million of their turnover.) Chicken production has similar input figures.

So, if there net turnover after profit is $900 million dollars and 80% of that goes on inputs before labour, that leaves at the most $180 million to pay the 500,000. Or $360 ( less than £4.50 a week )on average.

That's less than a quarter of a production workers average salary in India.

Has Mr Harris got his figures wrong?

Not bad for an amateur accountant, eh?

[JohnD]

The one part of the original article I can't get my head round is the fact that they employ 500,000 people (half of them directly).

The core poultry business ( an industry that I have some knowledge of)is notorious for having very high input costs. The feed business, for instance, would have input costs before labour of at least 80% before labour costs and profits. ( Venky's make 100,000 tonnes of feed which at present would account for at least $300 million of their turnover.) Chicken production has similar input figures.

So, if there net turnover after profit is $900 million dollars and 80% of that goes on inputs before labour, that leaves at the most $180 million to pay the 500,000. Or $360 ( less than £4.50 a week )on average.

That's less than a quarter of a production workers average salary in India.

Has Mr Harris got his figures wrong?

Not bad for an amateur accountant, eh?

Quite typical that an accountant, even if an amateur, has only got part of the story and not all the numbers .....

[67splitscreen]

The one part of the original article I can't get my head round is the fact that they employ 500,000 people (half of them directly).

The core poultry business ( an industry that I have some knowledge of)is notorious for having very high input costs. The feed business, for instance, would have input costs before labour of at least 80% before labour costs and profits. ( Venky's make 100,000 tonnes of feed which at present would account for at least $300 million of their turnover.) Chicken production has similar input figures.

So, if there net turnover after profit is $900 million dollars and 80% of that goes on inputs before labour, that leaves at the most $180 million to pay the 500,000. Or $360 ( less than £4.50 a week )on average.

That's less than a quarter of a production workers average salary in India.

Has Mr Harris got his figures wrong?

Not bad for an amateur accountant, eh?

As Venky's India is the only company we can truly get facts on and seems to trade in the core products as the other major players in the group, their employee costs are circa 6% (43.36 core)on turnover at 706 core.

So I doubt the employee figures, were probably lost in translation.

My mates facility in Baxenden brings in one day old chicks fattens the up for a month or so (not sure of the turn round time) and he runs the site on his Jack Jones, apart from delivery/collection process and the cleaning out of the sheds, when he brings in around six outside contractors.

here is Venky's India Ltd finished product list you'll see your feed figures are way out as a group. My link

Give it up, you might as well ........... in the wind

[Wiggy]

As Venky's India is the only company we can truly get facts on and seems to trade in the core products as the other major players in the group, their employee costs are circa 6% (43.36 core)on turnover at 706 core.

So I doubt the employee figures, were probably lost in translation.

My mates facility in Baxenden brings in one day old chicks fattens the up for a month or so (not sure of the turn round time) and he runs the site on his Jack Jones, apart from delivery/collection process and the cleaning out of the sheds, when he brings in around six outside contractors.

here is Venky's India Ltd finished product list you'll see your feed figures are way out as a group. My link

Give it up, you might as well ........... in the wind

You're right Splitscreen about giving it up!

(Venky's website talks about a capacity of 100,000 tonnes. Whereas they manufacture less than 50,000. With the main ingredients of poultry feed being wheat, trading at over 250 US, and Soya at 50% higher than that a conservative estimate would be the feed cost of $300.)

The employee numbers just seemed so outlandish to me that it made the whole article a little ridiculous.

Even more so with your find. Correct me if I'm wrong but the employee costs are equivalent to about $10 million, aren't they?

Between 500,000 staff ( or even 250,000)!

Certainly lost in translation!

[67splitscreen]

You're right Splitscreen about giving it up!

(Venky's website talks about a capacity of 100,000 tonnes. Whereas they manufacture less than 50,000. With the main ingredients of poultry feed being wheat, trading at over 250 US, and Soya at 50% higher than that a conservative estimate would be the feed cost of $300.)

The employee numbers just seemed so outlandish to me that it made the whole article a little ridiculous.

Even more so with your find. Correct me if I'm wrong but the employee costs are equivalent to about $10 million, aren't they?

Between 500,000 staff ( or even 250,000)!

Certainly lost in translation!

Venky's India employs 3334 at the last head count. approx £6m in salaries. or circa £1800 pa pp.

Sweet dreams

[bluebruce]

Ok, this is in response to Bucky Rover's request on the transfer thread that I back up my claim that Anuradha Desai has made contradictory statements re: Rovers. I'd like to stress I don't have any 'agenda', as I'm still reserving judgement on Venky's, I just didn't like the inaccurate claim from another poster that the brothers make contradictory and dishonest statements but she doesn't. I posted it here because the transfer thread isn't an appropriate venue for it, and this perhaps is, since it relates to the press and Venky's...apologies if it doesn't qualify.

I did start by posting the source I was citing, but quickly got bored of that! Some I got from tribal or whatever, but I had seen in the LET or other more reputable sources previously. Most of the latter half I got from Skysports.

"We want results and Sam has taken up the challenge. He deserves a chance," Venky's chairman Anuradha Desai said. "To this end, the group have promised manager Allardyce funds to spend in the January transfer" window.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/b/blackburn_rovers/9233068.stm

Then sacked after a run of four wins in seven games (12 points from 21). Yes, three defeats too, including the 7-1, but all away from home. Against Tottenham, United, and Bolton (always a tricky derby). If this isn't a satisfactory run, it's no worse than 7 points in six games (18 available) that has seen Kean rewarded with a contract. You may debate it, but doesn't seem consistent with wanting results to me, or giving Sam funds (unless they were referring to compo!). The following also suggests he was under consideration for the sack in the first place:

"We have not taken any hasty decision in replacing the manager with the coach. It was a long, pending issue and it's a calculated risk," she said.

Next..."We won't need to buy expensive players, we can always lease (loan) them."

Then tried to sign Ronaldinho in a package that would have cost something like £27 million (reputed £6 mill transfer fee included).

"We don't expect to be in the top five of the Premier League. We will be happy to be in the top 10-12."

"We want good football and Blackburn to be fourth or fifth in the league or even better," read the statement.

"We thought about Maradona as a coach after we took over," she said. "Talks were at the initial stage then, but there is no development on that front yet."

"This is something that because we have offices everywhere somebody spoke about, but it is not true," she continued. "There is no connection. This is something from before we got into the EPL - he knows one of our friends, but nothing beyond that. He is not being considered, not now and forever for the future. I can assure you there is nothing we are having to do with Maradona."

"Our stadium could be called the Venky's Stadium or could adopt the name of another sponsor."

"We are all people with a lot of tradition and we will not do anything to remove the name of Ewood Park. If we get a good sponsorship deal we will not lose the name. I want to be 100 per cent clear that the name will not be lost. Maybe a prefix or a suffix, in the same way that the league is known as the Barclays Premier League. What we will not do is name the ground after my company. That is not what we want to do."

"There is more than £5million available to him. I would rather not say how much, I will say that when the time is right, but I can say there will be a lot more than £5m."

(I can't find the exact quote about pumping in £5 million, and am bored of searching, but we all know she said it)

Now. I know most of these can be debated in some form or another. As I said, I don't have an agenda and can see plausible explanations for some of these. And there could be a degree of it being lost in translation or taken out of context. But I think it points firmly away from Desai being super consistent and constantly honest as whoever it was claimed in the other thread. I'm not even up in arms about it...I've got used to the fact they're not great at communicating with us, and I even expect to be lied to or misled (whether intentionally or not) by owners now and again. I'm even used to it- we used to hear about powder being kept dry every damn window.

But I'm just answering Bucky's request, so no need for people to be gits about the information I've presented if they disagree (although on this board, I expect it'll happen anyway )

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Ok, this is in response to Bucky Rover's request on the transfer thread that I back up my claim that Anuradha Desai has made contradictory statements re: Rovers. I'd like to stress I don't have any 'agenda', as I'm still reserving judgement on Venky's, I just didn't like the inaccurate claim from another poster that the brothers make contradictory and dishonest statements but she doesn't. I posted it here because the transfer thread isn't an appropriate venue for it, and this perhaps is, since it relates to the press and Venky's...apologies if it doesn't qualify.

I did start by posting the source I was citing, but quickly got bored of that! Some I got from tribal or whatever, but I had seen in the LET or other more reputable sources previously. Most of the latter half I got from Skysports.

"We want results and Sam has taken up the challenge. He deserves a chance," Venky's chairman Anuradha Desai said. "To this end, the group have promised manager Allardyce funds to spend in the January transfer" window.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/b/blackburn_rovers/9233068.stm

Then sacked after a run of four wins in seven games (12 points from 21). Yes, three defeats too, including the 7-1, but all away from home. Against Tottenham, United, and Bolton (always a tricky derby). If this isn't a satisfactory run, it's no worse than 7 points in six games (18 available) that has seen Kean rewarded with a contract. You may debate it, but doesn't seem consistent with wanting results to me, or giving Sam funds (unless they were referring to compo!). The following also suggests he was under consideration for the sack in the first place:

"We have not taken any hasty decision in replacing the manager with the coach. It was a long, pending issue and it's a calculated risk," she said.

Next..."We won't need to buy expensive players, we can always lease (loan) them."

Then tried to sign Ronaldinho in a package that would have cost something like £27 million (reputed £6 mill transfer fee included).

"We don't expect to be in the top five of the Premier League. We will be happy to be in the top 10-12."

"We want good football and Blackburn to be fourth or fifth in the league or even better," read the statement.

"There is more than £5million available to him. I would rather not say how much, I will say that when the time is right, but I can say there will be a lot more than £5m."

"We thought about Maradona as a coach after we took over," she said. "Talks were at the initial stage then, but there is no development on that front yet."

"This is something that because we have offices everywhere somebody spoke about, but it is not true," she continued. "There is no connection. This is something from before we got into the EPL - he knows one of our friends, but nothing beyond that. He is not being considered, not now and forever for the future. I can assure you there is nothing we are having to do with Maradona."

"Our stadium could be called the Venky's Stadium or could adopt the name of another sponsor."

"We are all people with a lot of tradition and we will not do anything to remove the name of Ewood Park. If we get a good sponsorship deal we will not lose the name. I want to be 100 per cent clear that the name will not be lost. Maybe a prefix or a suffix, in the same way that the league is known as the Barclays Premier League. What we will not do is name the ground after my company. That is not what we want to do."

"There is more than £5million available to him. I would rather not say how much, I will say that when the time is right, but I can say there will be a lot more than £5m."

(I can't find the exact quote about pumping in £5 million, and am bored of searching, but we all know she said it)

Now. I know most of these can be debated in some form or another. As I said, I don't have an agenda and can see plausible explanations for some of these. And there could be a degree of it being lost in translation or taken out of context. But I think it points firmly away from Desai being super consistent and constantly honest as whoever it was claimed in the other thread. I'm not even up in arms about it...I've got used to the fact they're not great at communicating with us, and I even expect to be lied to or misled (whether intentionally or not) by owners now and again. I'm even used to it- we used to hear about powder being kept dry every damn window.

But I'm just answering Bucky's request, so no need for people to be gits about the information I've presented if they disagree (although on this board, I expect it'll happen anyway )

The only thing I will say - and you think that we always got told the truth by our previous owners ? I don't know if there is a hidden agenda - or maybe they are reacting to public opinion too much - and trying to always tell the fans what they want to hear. The only thing that holds any hope - until the recent "we will make a big signing statement" - that could have been more about keeping Venky's in the public eye (not necessarily a bad thing for Rovers) - is that things have quietened down - hopefully Kean and Williams are slowly getting them "aware" of the perils of talking too much to the media where football is concerned

[bluebruce]

The only thing I will say - and you think that we always got told the truth by our previous owners ? I don't know if there is a hidden agenda - or maybe they are reacting to public opinion too much - and trying to always tell the fans what they want to hear. The only thing that holds any hope - until the recent "we will make a big signing statement" - that could have been more about keeping Venky's in the public eye (not necessarily a bad thing for Rovers) - is that things have quietened down - hopefully Kean and Williams are slowly getting them "aware" of the perils of talking too much to the media where football is concerned

I'll answer that by quoting myself, as you probably didn't read all that stuff I wrote (understandable!):

"I've got used to the fact they're not great at communicating with us, and I even expect to be lied to or misled (whether intentionally or not) by owners now and again. I'm even used to it- we used to hear about powder being kept dry every damn window."

In case that wasn't clear, I was saying the previous regime...were also liberal with the truth at times.

And yes, I do think they are generally trying to say what they think people want to hear (and to be fair to them, they may be adapting their real policies in line with this, rather than just saying it). That was my early impression and I think it is probably still the best explanation. As I said, I was just trying to thoroughly answer a specific point, not go on a rant against our owners.

[BuckyRover]

Great effort bluebruce. You were indeed correct.

Still its early days yet.

[OscarRaven]

The only thing I will say - and you think that we always got told the truth by our previous owners ?

Feel free to follow BB's example and dig out the lies or contradictions we got from the trust. I think the main grievence that I heard regarding comunication to / from the trust was the complete lack of it.

Guess it comes back to the old saying "be careful what you ask for", although it does seem Venky's have improved of late. Maybe this new saying is something we have to get used to - "A person only learns to swim by falling in the water often".

[bluebruce]

Feel free to follow BB's example and dig out the lies or contradictions we got from the trust. I think the main grievence that I heard regarding comunication to / from the trust was the complete lack of it.

That'd be far harder than what I did. As you say, the Trust didn't communicate with us directly, everything came through JW, who was a lot more reserved and sensible in what he said. However, the big thing I recall being misled on is transfer funds. Phrases like keeping the powder dry, then there was no damned powder again when the next window came. To be honest, I even recall one porky from Jack Walker himself, RIP. I'm certain he promised to redevelop the Riverside if we got into Europe one year. We did, and he didn't.

Also, those quotes would be far older and harder to track down. I went through the last few months of Rovers stories at SSN's site and opened up everything I remembered a bit of contradiction concerning. Would be a hell of a job finding the old stuff.

[Valois]

A few more pieces from Nick Harris's report on our new owners -

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/01/20/blackburn-india-special-boomtown-200102-pune-200103/

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/01/20/blackburn-india-special-words-of-chicken-wisdom-on-a-factory-wall-200104/

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/01/20/blackburn-india-special-rao-200105/

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/01/20/blackburn-india-special-get-a-chicken-burger-frozen-nuggets-and-creatine-at-a-one-stop-shop-venkys-xprs-210101/

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/01/21/blackburn-india-special-views-210106-of-a-family-sponsored-temple/

[bluebruce]

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/01/21/blackburn-india-special-views-210106-of-a-family-sponsored-temple/

I like the fact they're into philanthropy, bodes well.

[Glenn]

I like the fact they're into philanthropy, bodes well.

Never got on with stamp collecting myself

[bluebruce]

Never got on with stamp collecting myself

....ok?

[Glenn]

Sorry, poor attempt at humour.

[T.J.Newton]

Has mrs/miss desai been too a blackburn game yet?, im sure she said that shed like to make blackburn her second home.

it is always good too see the owners in the stands i think, although not important as long as there doing a good job running the club(which they defo are).

cheers

[dazmaz]

Has mrs/miss desai been too a blackburn game yet?, im sure she said that shed like to make blackburn her second home.

it is always good too see the owners in the stands i think, although not important as long as there doing a good job running the club(which they defo are).

cheers

Iv heard she is due over tomorrow

[Sparky Marky]

for the wigan game? How depressing for her...half empty crappy DW stadium....proper rubbish football club wigan...it's just not right...they need to feck off back down now.

[Mattyblue]

for the wigan game? How depressing for her...half empty crappy DW stadium....proper rubbish football club wigan...it's just not right...they need to feck off back down now.

No need for that Sparky, they are there on merit (just about) and deserve to be there as much as anyone else.

[dazmaz]

for the wigan game? How depressing for her...half empty crappy DW stadium....proper rubbish football club wigan...it's just not right...they need to feck off back down now.

no for the Spurs game, Unless something has changed in the last 2 hours since I looked that is the next game we have

[bluebruce]

Sorry, poor attempt at humour.

It's ok, I just didn't get it. I thought maybe the word philanthropy had some connection to stamp collecting, but I couldn't find anything about that.