[Archived] This is an absolute disgrace

[Glenn]

Whilst a confirmed member of the pinko liberal yoghurt knitters, I'm hardly going to buy into the Sun/Daily Mail "immigrants cause cancer and lower house prices" rhetoric, I do find positive racism every bit as bad as normal racism. If the stated aims of the playgroup are adhered to then the situation should (and possibly was) dealt with by simply explaining that the playgroup isn't just a playgroup, it's aimed at helping immigrant mothers integrating better and if she wanted to participate in such training (rather than depositing her child and leaving) then she would be more than welcome. If she was just looking for somebody to look after her kid for a few hours, then they were right to turn her away, that's not the intended aim of the group (and it's nothing to do with race). However, if the "intergration" aim wasn't being acted upon and was simply an excuse for inclusion, then she has every right to be upset.

[Roaming Rover]

The group was for non English nationals to learn about intergrating. People who are alredy from this country dont need this. English mums and children only would be allowing only one nationality only and banning anyonr else for no reason. Surely you can see the difference? Unless your saying there are the British and everyone else not from here are lumped together and the same

Disagree completely with this. I see many ‘British’ people who could do with a few good lessons on how to integrate. But then again we can hardly integrate on a Blackburn Rovers message board so what hope is there for everyone else......

Anyway, I imagine that a lot of immigrants, who do integrate and do work hard hate these kinds of things as well as it just makes life harder for them and increases resentment against them.

[thenodrog]

It's a riddle alright. How can an organisation exist solely to assist integration yet ban it at the same time?

Just like the millions of people that live in rural situations in towns like Harrogate,York etc who love to go to dinner parties and profess their support for a liberal multicultural society where everybody is equal and live in peace and harmony forever....... but put their house up for sale as soon as an immigrant family moves in on their road.

[Rovermatt]

What a load of paranoid inverted snobbery. What, you've never been to a dinner party in all your long years?

It's a riddle alright. How can an organisation exist solely to assist integration yet ban it at the same time?

Just like the millions of people that live in rural situations in towns like Harrogate,York etc who love to go to dinner parties and profess their support for a liberal multicultural society where everybody is equal and live in peace and harmony forever....... but put their house up for sale as soon as an immigrant family moves in on their road.

You're equating immigrants with undesirables. What kind of immigrants? Australians? Canadians? Zimbabweans? Martians?

[dave birch]

You're equating immigrants with undesirables. What kind of immigrants? Australians? Canadians? Zimbabweans? Martians?

Look, Rovermatt, I realise you're from Norn Iron, but.....

[Rovermatt]

not read the replies in.this thread but this is.shocking.. yet if we had one that band foreigners that would be racist.. and against the law.. or it would be not long after..

don't like us British? (Please don't use that word again) off out of the country then...

They're attempting integration apparently. It doesn't appear that they are that hostile to the dear old Brits.

[dave birch]

you might have missed my (norn) "Irony", being from Australia.

[3rdpillar]

Just like the millions of people that live in rural situations in towns like Harrogate,York etc

Having just spent a long weekend in Harrogate ( didn't go Chelski), I can say Harrogate is really like a different country, not a town in the next county. (good and not so good things considered)

[Paul]

<br />It's a riddle alright. How can an organisation exist solely to assist integration yet ban it at the same time? <img src='http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <br />

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Just like the millions of people that live in rural situations in towns like Harrogate,York etc who love to go to dinner parties and profess their support for a liberal multicultural society where everybody is equal and live in peace and harmony forever....... but put their house up for sale as soon as an immigrant family moves in on their road.<br />

Hmmm......lived in York for four years. That's a load of rubbish. If you weren't Yorkshire born and bred you were an immigrant regardless of skin colour!!!!! York is though a wonderful, wonderful city with an atmosphere it's hard to describe. Four of the happiest years of our lives spent there. Harrogate though is strange!!

[thenodrog]

Hmmm......lived in York for four years. That's a load of rubbish. If you weren't Yorkshire born and bred you were an immigrant regardless of skin colour!!!!! York is though a wonderful, wonderful city with an atmosphere it's hard to describe. Four of the happiest years of our lives spent there. Harrogate though is strange!!

I love a couple of days spent in York too. I really could live there. Be interesting to poll an opinion on Blackburn from the people of York etc. I wonder what they'd say about us?

[Steve Moss]

What a load of paranoid inverted snobbery. What, you've never been to a dinner party in all your long years?

You're equating immigrants with undesirables. What kind of immigrants? Australians? Canadians? Zimbabweans? Martians?

Probably Americans. We can wreck a neighborhood with our Stetson hats, jingling spurs and six shooters popping off every Fourth of July.

Seriously, claiming to assist in integration by excluding the group you are allegedly trying to integrate with is about as backwards one can get.

[Al]

They're attempting integration apparently. It doesn't appear that they are that hostile to the dear old Brits.

Attempting integration by isolation? That's a great way to achieve it!

[Rover Down Under]

Only stupid thing about this palava is that people are still making these kinds of ridiculous decisions. They were just asking for trouble from the start. Can’t imagine what was going through the heads of the people who came up with the policy. “Gee, I wonder if excluding British children will cause controversy if it gets out?”

Muppets.

Why didn’t they just limit the amount of "British" children to no more than, say, 25%? That way they achieve their stated aim of integrating families AND having the group made up of predominantly immigrants. Instead of sensationalist headlines they would more likely be getting plaudits.

Too much to ask people to sit down for a few minutes and use their noggin isn’t it?

[Seggie]

I am of Italian heratige and one of the best things about my Grandad was that when he came over in the 50s he made a proper attempt to integrate into sociaty, he learnt the language, the culture and most importantly chatted my Grandma up(Shame his great way with the women didn't go down the generations). He had no support groups, he was more integrated into British sociaty than most British people are today. He worked until he retired, he paid his taxes, he lived the majority of his life as a foreginer but in every way to me he was British and to me he integrated into British sociaty by wanting to and socialising with British people.

I buy into the idea that The Sun wrote the initial article but even if it's 1% truth then theres something wrong, you do not integrate into a sociaty by being around other people who are outsiders, so to speak, you do it by being around people from that culture and that benefits both sides because an understanding comes from it.

IMO its a poor waste of money when everything is being cut, its not the immigrants fault but integration requires somthing to intergrate with.

[thenodrog]

I am of Italian heratige and one of the best things about my Grandad was that when he came over in the 50s he made a proper attempt to integrate into sociaty, he learnt the language, the culture and most importantly chatted my Grandma up(Shame his great way with the women didn't go down the generations). He had no support groups, he was more integrated into British sociaty than most British people are today. He worked until he retired, he paid his taxes, he lived the majority of his life as a foreginer but in every way to me he was British and to me he integrated into British sociaty by wanting to and socialising with British people.

Exactly as it should be seggie.

In fairness lots of islamic immigrants did the same in the 60's and early 70's. Things were going wll but it all went horribly wrong when family duty forced them to bring over elderly relatives who in turn brought with them religious intolerance and strong disapproval of the English way of life and in doing so forced a complete U turn in integration. From then on and aided by the Race Relations Act and liberal politics etc the onus was subtly changed and in towns like Blackburn the indigenous population was expected to integrate with the immigrant one. Small wonder that resentment set in from two dislocated societies and race relations took a downward turn on both sides. I'm sure that the early architects of immigration did not envisage the 'Blackburn model' back then where great swathes of a town have become moslem quarters sorry halves, where the education policy has been hi-jacked in order to control the young and impressionable, and where the council is now under complete immigrant control.

The issue could easily have been avoided by stricter control of numbers instead of the immigration free for all that we have seen for 30 years. Unfortunately the genie is out of the bottle and wont go back in.

[colin]

Well done old chap. You got there in the end as many of us thought you would.

[thenodrog]

Well done old chap. You got there in the end as many of us thought you would.

Thank you for that well thought out and enlightened comment Colin. Very useful indeed. Have you come across last night's tea yet?

[Rover Down Under]

Thank you for that well thought out and enlightened comment Colin.

I don't think Colin has provided a single enlightened comment in the whole thread, just snide remarks and implicit accusations of racism. It is that kind of attitude that brought situations like this about in the first place; stifling open discussion and debate through fear of being branded a racist. I've longed for an explanation of where things went wrong in Blackburn (and elsewhere) because at one point things were going pretty well and now the place has a divide that makes the San Andreas Fault look like a hairline fracture. Theno gave a plausible and insightful explanation, instead of perhaps contributing or debating it Colin just makes a snide remark. Very helpful Colin, well done, now maybe instead of being petty could you provide or contribute an explanation please?

[adopted scouser]

It's a disgrace alright. Eastenders beating Corrie last night.

[SouthAussieRover]

I don't think Colin has provided a single enlightened comment in the whole thread, just snide remarks and implicit accusations of racism. It is that kind of attitude that brought situations like this about in the first place; stifling open discussion and debate through fear of being branded a racist. I've longed for an explanation of where things went wrong in Blackburn (and elsewhere) because at one point things were going pretty well and now the place has a divide that makes the San Andreas Fault look like a hairline fracture. Theno gave a plausible and insightful explanation, instead of perhaps contributing or debating it Colin just makes a snide remark. Very helpful Colin, well done, now maybe instead of being petty could you provide or contribute an explanation please?

Why did you leave England and move to this bastion of tolerance?

[thenodrog]

I don't think Colin has provided a single enlightened comment in the whole thread, just snide remarks and implicit accusations of racism. It is that kind of attitude that brought situations like this about in the first place; stifling open discussion and debate through fear of being branded a racist. I've longed for an explanation of where things went wrong in Blackburn (and elsewhere) because at one point things were going pretty well and now the place has a divide that makes the San Andreas Fault look like a hairline fracture. Theno gave a plausible and insightful explanation, instead of perhaps contributing or debating it Colin just makes a snide remark. Very helpful Colin, well done, now maybe instead of being petty could you provide or contribute an explanation please?

Thanks for that RDU. Waste of time though I fear cos Colin does not possess much original thought.

Funny you should use that choice of word though cos I once got a 3 month ban as a direct result of retaliating after Colin had called me a 'snidey racist'. Just ignore him and apply the rule of leopards and spots.

[adopted scouser]

Can we please stop the personal insults? Failure to do so will end up in thread locked.

What personal insults ? I read Gordon's post before the thought police deleted it, and reading back through the last two pages the posts are well observed and provoke discussion between grown ups. (correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a forum is it not ?)

New mods eh ?

** Sent you a PM

[Miker]

I actually think this sort of discrimination is a bit uncalled for, but I know for a fact that my cousins had gone to kindergarten or to primary school and were bullied and teased because they couldn't speak English and were basically left out by the other kids as a result. If they went to a kindergarten or school where they could socialise with the other kids then that obviously wouldn't happen.

It's a very complex issue to deal with and it's not a simple case of racism or discrimination. It's easy to pull that card from both sides, but in my opinion that's not the issue here at all. The issue is, in fact, integration. Integrating migrants with the natives. We've seen a new cultural paradigm develop - the migrant culture - and it's going to continue being a challenge to deal with.

[otto man]

Exactly as it should be seggie.

In fairness lots of islamic immigrants did the same in the 60's and early 70's. Things were going wll but it all went horribly wrong when family duty forced them to bring over elderly relatives who in turn brought with them religious intolerance and strong disapproval of the English way of life and in doing so forced a complete U turn in integration. From then on and aided by the Race Relations Act and liberal politics etc the onus was subtly changed and in towns like Blackburn the indigenous population was expected to integrate with the immigrant one. Small wonder that resentment set in from two dislocated societies and race relations took a downward turn on both sides. I'm sure that the early architects of immigration did not envisage the 'Blackburn model' back then where great swathes of a town have become moslem quarters sorry halves, where the education policy has been hi-jacked in order to control the young and impressionable, and where the council is now under complete immigrant control.

The issue could easily have been avoided by stricter control of numbers instead of the immigration free for all that we have seen for 30 years. Unfortunately the genie is out of the bottle and wont go back in.

I couldn't agree more. Good post Jim.

[adopted scouser]

And lo and behold my post has disappeared