[Archived] Wigan Vs Blackburn Rovers

[92er]

Radio Lancs said we have conceded tne most away goals in the premier league.

[Look4Me]

Radio Lancs said we have conceded tne most away goals in the premier league.

Not THAT surprising..we got 7 at ManUtd, 4 at Spurs and 4 today. Most teams usually need a bit more than 3 games to let in 15..

[CrazyIvan]

Got back about 10 minutes ago. I am p'ssed off. We can attack but lack a decent striker (when Roque is not fit). We can defend but someone should tell the players that they should because the defending was shocking, absolutely awful, the worst I've seen in a long time. I'm not going to jump the gun and start saying we're in trouble because we're not. Not yet. One win and we will be back on track. One more defeat and we'll start getting twitchy. The tactics were pretty good to be honest. There is nothing that the manager can do about the shocking defending or the state of the pitch. Roll on...

[92er]

I have just read the Independent's expected Rovers' team for today.

How many did Carew score?

[BPF]

Still look a lot better than under Sam and that really is saying something.

Salgado must be growing tired of being targeted by every manager in the Premier League...

Roberts belongs in the Championship.

Diouf has not got a future at Manchester United.

Pitch conditions - awful, just awful.

Four defeats on the trot now. Three and a half year contracts may have been dished out too eagerly. Let's wait and see.

[CrazyIvan]

Still look a lot better than under Sam and that really is saying something.

Salgado must be growing tired of being targeted by every manager in the Premier League...

Roberts belongs in the Championship.

Diouf has not got a future at Manchester United.

Pitch conditions - awful, just awful.

Four defeats on the trot now. Three and a half year contracts may have been dished out too eagerly. Let's wait and see.

Three defeats on the run including the FA Cup...

[chris]

"Diouf has not got a future at Manchester United"

I concur, he'll never get a look in.

[Bobby G]

Still look a lot better than under Sam and that really is saying something.

Salgado must be growing tired of being targeted by every manager in the Premier League...

Roberts belongs in the Championship.

Diouf has not got a future at Manchester United.

Pitch conditions - awful, just awful.

Four defeats on the trot now. Three and a half year contracts may have been dished out too eagerly. Let's wait and see.

Your first and last statements are a bit contradictory.

And by a lot better than under Sam, you mean easier on the eye right? Yes its much easier on the eye and much more expansive. Reminds me a bit of Wigan, and West Brom...

[philipl]

Three games this week, three eccentric selections, three defeats.

The real worry is that this midfield diamond is not working and is leaving the defence open to the sort of problems that undid Ince- midfield allowing opponents free runs at or behind the defenders. Yes it was a pudding of a pitch but so often we saw four or five Rovers players squeezed together with no long out ball option- the ball getting stuck on the sodden pitch allowing a Wigan boot to get in. If ever a game needed an up and under approach, this one did.

I am sure Robbo will hold up his hand about the first two goals but when you watch the Wigan goals again, you will see we were terribly static at the back holding positions as Wigan got in and around us.

Our deep working hard thinking rooky manager has some things to get sorted out.

Dreams of 7th and Europa Cup football look rather distant this evening. Birmingham in 18th woould go two points ahead of us if (and I know its not likely) they win their games in hand on us.

[BPF]

Three defeats on the run including the FA Cup...

Chelsea

Aston Villa

Spurs

Wigan

WBA may have been in there somewhere actually, well the point still applies. I have little doubt that if the Liverpool game had gone the other way, there would be a Kean Out thread on here by now.

Your first and last statements are a bit contradictory.

And by a lot better than under Sam, you mean easier on the eye right? Yes its much easier on the eye and much more expansive. Reminds me a bit of Wigan, and West Brom...

It was actually quite confusing. Yes, it is much easier on the eye. Currently I still think that he is the right man for the job. I think the main issue is that we are lacking ANY quality up front. We need Santa Cruz back as soon as his injury allows.

[Bobby G]

Yes but teams like West Brom, Wigan, and us cant get away with trying to play good football every game. If we are looking for praise from mainstream media then its all good, but I want to win and move up the table. And if I cant have both, I know which one Id rather.

We need to tighten up the midfield. I would hope that with Formica on, we may try playing him off the main striker too in some games. Cant afford to play this diamond midfield. Plus standing off players has become a scary recurrence.

[AggyBlue]

Kean has turned us into Blackpool.

Wigan out fought us, they won the individual battles.

Wigan are obviously used to playing on mud.

[MarkBRFC71]

Just got back - that bloody car park is a nightmare to get away from!!

Despite the poor team selection again (Roberts/Benjani, but Niko not even on bench, no Dunny when he's our best AM, Hoilett behind the strikers when he's an out-and-out winger) we started the game well and deservedly led. However, it pretty much all went tits up from there. As the pitch worsened (and it wasn't great to start with) so Rovers did.

Our defending was comical, and everyone across the back 4 and the goalkeeper had an absolute nightmare. Jones apart, our midfield just weren't commited enough in the tackle. Up front, Roberts (goal apart) looked worse than ever, and although Benjani showed some decent touches, when all's said and done those two are 4th and 5th best strikers at the club - so why on earth did Kean start with them?

Lots to do down at Brockhall this week, and Keano really needs to start next week's game against Newcastle with our strongest 11 for a change.

[imy9]

I would love to see us play the following against Newcastle:

Robbo

Salgado Nelsen Samba Givet

Jones Grella

Hoilett Olsson

Kalinic

RSC

Until P Jones is back from injury or Formica is fit, this is the way forward to ensure some protection for the back 4 IF we are playing two up top.

[Mozzer]

wigan wanted it more then us

[Mercer]

wigan wanted it more then us

Surprisingly so but absolutely spot on.

[Steve Moss]

######, another mistake from Samba.

Are you surprised? He's not a top 4 CB.

Kean's start is now looking fairly average for me.

It's still too early to judge Kean, for good or ill.

Excellent substitutions by Kean. Dunn and Diouf on for Benjani and Emerton. He often makes daft changes, but these look spot on.

I agree. Kean got the subs right this time, but I thought he got them right last week too. Its team selection that's worrying me.

Someone get Roberts off. The worst player Rovers have had in 8 years. Ashamed to have him in our side.

I think you exagerate but I understand the sentiment. He should not be a starter.

I'm sorry but this is completely unacceptable (I suspect the owners will agree with me). To go 1 up and then blow it so spectacularly speaks to an inherent weakness that's been floating around this team all season.

I believe the senior members of our squad are complacent. They are not challenged and they're places are not at risk. They need to be put under pressure and that requires a bit more than a talking to. Is there anyone here who really think that Kean would dare bench Samba, Salgado, etc.? They need to be motivated to focus and every team position needs to be subject to competition.

Poor Kalinic...the cynics on here constantly slag him, but I'd like to see him get half of the chances that Mame and Roberts have missed.

I don't understand the situation with Kalinic. I hope he is injured as he should be a starter ahead of Roberts and M. Diouf.

Thats not enough though. Defensively pathetic.

Defence is shocking. That pitch is awful, and no I'm not blaming that as I know Wigan have the same issues. 4-3 Jesus.

We needed a good RB and LB this last transfer window. Both to create competition for the spot and to deal with injuries. Olson is a good player but he's a winger, not a LB.

Sort it out Kean.

Kean needs to get hard. So far he's all carrot and no stick. Modern players are largely spoiled brats. They need the occassional whack to keep them focused.

Ok the honeymoon is over but lets not lose the plot. The Newcastle game is the big one. Lose that and then the alarm bells sound.

This was an Allardyce game. That pitch was never going to be condusive to flowing football.

Positives - Hoilett was on fire. The kid will go places. He skinned Wigan's backline on several occasions.

Going forward:

Dunn starts

Roberts is only ever a last resort. He should NEVER start.

Throw Roque in as soon as he's fit. The only class striker we have.

Formica needs to be given a try ASAP

I agree that it is too soon to panic. I reserve the right to start frothing at the mouth after the Newcastle game.

As an Allardyce supporter, I also agree that this was his type of game. My worry is that Kean is being inflexible tactically. Some games we should play 'free flowing' football and others counter-attacking football. We need more than one tactical arrow in our quiver.

I agree with you about the positives. I disagree about Formica. He needs a month or two to get used to the squad, but some muscle on and in general adapt to the environment.

[Blue blood]

Eventually got out of the car park. Am a tad puzzled at how bad as we were we lost to a team that weren't really any better than us.

First 20 minutes were very positive. Granted we looked a bit open on the break, but given the amount of possession we had, and how poor Wigan were when they had it, I wasn't unduely worried. We attacked well down the flanks. Holliett looked dangerous, thought Emerton caught the eye offensively as well, and though Jones was the committed tackler who can pass it that we were lacking earlier on in the season. We got the goal and I was pretty sure that the game was an away win to us.

Even after their equaliser I wasn't too unduely worried, although it was alarming how many players the wigan team could waltz past. However when we didn't really pick up after their goal, I feared a boring draw was on the cards.

Second half - showed all the negative attributes from the first half only much worse. We were vulnerable to the counter attack, the opposition could dribble past us easily, and Holliett seemed to be playing much more centrally and therefore was far more ineffective. By then the pitch seemed to be excessively heavy, yet rovers didn't seem to try getting it to the flanks (where the pitch seemed a bit better) or adapt their style until it was too late.

The second and third wigan goals were diabolical to conceed. The second was an utter farce and for the third Salgado's trip summed up a rank bad game for him. For each last ditch tackle he made he was found out about three times. He doesn't seem to be able to play 3 games in a week.

We did to our credit strike back quickly, with a good corner, but of course undid the work by letting in a 4th. We even managed a third, and I think this was a damning inditement against wigan that we could play as poorly as we did and still score two goals. Barring set pieces and a stupid penalty to give away we did not look threatening at all in the second half (where had the team from the 1st 20 minutes gone?) yet to still conceed two showed what a poor side Wigan are.

Kean had a bad day at the office imo today. Both strikers looked very poor, although in fairness I'd have probably played one of them (probably Roberts as he can panic weak defences) but I struggle to see what either of them really offer. They can't really head a ball, have very little pace, don't hold it up, and we were playing in spite of them often in the first half. Certainly think there's a lot more milage in any of our other strikers than these two. Also with Salgado having a terrible game taking Emerton off, who was having a decent game, instead of him was a bad call. Dunn didn't do much bar convert the penalty when he came on either.

Olsson looks miles better at left mid then left back. We seem to have missed a trick not getting in a left back in the transfer window, and as others have said getting back Givet will be a huge boost. On the positive side Jones looks a quality addition, and we've still a lot of daylight between us and the relegation places.

Poor do though to loose to a weak Wigan side, especially given the way we started.

[92er]

According to the Guardian report, before kick off Wigan were the lowest scoring team in the premier league.

They had also won just 1 game in the last 12.

[tony gale's mic]

Unless I've made an error.

Sam's reign (this season)- 21 points from 17 games. 1.235 points per game

Kean's reign- 10 points from 9 games. 1.11111111 (etc) points per game

Yes Sam's record there is a bit better, but it's not massively dissimilar, though we all know which has been more entertaining. Until today, Kean's record was 10 points from 8, which is 1.25 points per game, marginally better. Just shows how little there is in it so far, a win in the next game could make it 13 points from 10 (1.3 points per game).

Point being? Far too early to judge whether we've lost our ability to get points.

Four of those during Sam's almost-half-a-season. So Sam was letting it slip too.

Sam had a tried and tested successful record over almost a decade with clubs of our size.

Plenty of managers have managed to string together a few decent results with a limited side first up - see Burnley, Hull, Reading, West Brom and I suspect Blackpool when we look at them in hindsight (they've probably got enough points this season but next season will hit them hard). Again, plenty of poor managers also managed to get a "new manager bounce" like Steve Kean did.

Very few managers achieved sustained success on a shoestring budget, and those that did were all criticised for their style of play. The three I can think of who have achieved sustained success on a limited budget are Allardyce, Pulis and Hughes.

At least the Allardyce lovers can have a good ###### tonight.

Worst poster ever.

[Exiled_Rover]

Stats go out the window on a pitch like that. It completely changed the complexion of the game.

[tony gale's mic]

Stats go out the window on a pitch like that. It completely changed the complexion of the game.

...which is relevant because Wigan were playing on a different football pitch to us.

[Amo]

...which is relevant because Wigan were playing on a different football pitch to us.

They won by a single goal and had, like, two shots more on target.

If they had completely outclassed us, perhaps I'd see your point.

[BuckyRover]

I think we can all agree on one thing.

We are all glad Sam is no longer in charge.

[tony gale's mic]

They won by a single goal and had, like, two shots more on target.

If they had completely outclassed us, perhaps I'd see your point.

My point was that the pitch should have no bearing on the assessment of the match. Which is true - I thought that was plainly obvious.

They also dominated possession and after they equalised for the first time - ie for most of the match - were clearly the better side.

Still, either way, people using the pitch as an excuse are talking nonsense.