[Archived] Wigan Vs Blackburn Rovers

[92er]

  On 05/02/2011 at 19:36, BuckyRover said:

I think we can all agree on one thing.

We are all glad Sam is no longer in charge.

Nope.

I have at least 1 friend who is extremely committed to the Rovers who is unhappy at the change.

[Waggy76]

I have been today , and trying to make a rational view 2 hours after the game....In my opinion Wigan adapted to the conditions when they worsened ,than we did ...Yes there was bad defending always going to be ,when the weather is like that ...Don't agree Wigan wanted it more though...

Not picking himo out personally , but cannot see what Diouf brings to the team ....

[tony gale's mic]

  On 05/02/2011 at 19:36, BuckyRover said:

I think we can all agree on one thing.

We are all glad Sam is no longer in charge.

Yep, I'd much sooner have an inexperienced manager who had never managed before Rovers than someone with a proven track record of success in this league.

[Stuart]

Surely it can't be right that the attendants for the visitor car park have their tea break at 5pm? Can it? Couldn't they have squeezed it in during the previous 90 minutes?

Has anyone got Dave Whelan's email address? No attempt to ensure safety of the DW patrons leaving the game.

[BuckyRover]

  On 05/02/2011 at 19:38, tony gale said:

My point was that the pitch should have no bearing on the assessment of the match. Which is true - I thought that was plainly obvious.

They also dominated possession and after they equalised for the first time - ie for most of the match - were clearly the better side.

Still, either way, people using the pitch as an excuse are talking nonsense.

So when Notts County did well against City on their poor pitch it's was a result of Paul Ince's tactical nous and not the fact that county were used to playing on that pitch.

I'll remember that

  On 05/02/2011 at 19:40, tony gale said:

Yep, I'd much sooner have an inexperienced manager who had never managed before Rovers than someone with a proven track record of success in this league.

Alex Ferguson was unproven in this league once. Your argument could result in no other managers ever appearing in this league.

It's not going to be easy but shrieking after a poor result is not going to help is it?

[bluebruce]

  On 05/02/2011 at 19:29, tony gale said:

Sam had a tried and tested successful record over almost a decade with clubs of our size.

Plenty of managers have managed to string together a few decent results with a limited side first up - see Burnley, Hull, Reading, West Brom and I suspect Blackpool when we look at them in hindsight (they've probably got enough points this season but next season will hit them hard). Again, plenty of poor managers also managed to get a "new manager bounce" like Steve Kean did.

Very few managers achieved sustained success on a shoestring budget, and those that did were all criticised for their style of play. The three I can think of who have achieved sustained success on a limited budget are Allardyce, Pulis and Hughes.

Uhhh. My only point was that it is too early to judge Kean yet. He may have just got a honeymoon period earlyish, or it may be taking time for him to fully impose his methods on the team and learn the ropes. Although I think it was a bizarre appointment, it could still be a disastrous appointment, an inspired one, or just plain average. On the basis of similar points totals (the poster I was replying to said we had lost our ability to get points), do you really disagree with this?

Obviously Sam had a long-term, tried and tested portfolio and Kean doesn't, but there isn't a whole lot he can do about that until given the chance. It only makes sense to compare records this season, IMO, with largely the same team.

[tony gale's mic]

  On 05/02/2011 at 19:42, BuckyRover said:

So when Notts County did well against City on their poor pitch it's was a result of Paul Ince's tactical nous and not the fact that county were used to playing on that pitch.

I'll remember that

Yeah, because that's what I said.

Wigan's pitch isn't usually as bad as that - the recent rain made it a hell of a lot worse than it is. It might not be the best pitch in the league but it's nowhere near that bad - the fact the game was talked about as being called off is testament to this. Therefore both teams had to contend with pitch conditions they weren't used to.

Notts County on the other hand play in a lower league where pitch standards aren't as good, but they're used to it. However even then the pitch was only one of several factors into why they did so well against City - City having a very bad day being another because good pitch or bad pitch a team of seasoned internationals should be wiping the floor with Notts County.

As for Ince (funny you should bring him up though since you kept backing him long after most of us realised he was a dud) - he is nowhere near Premier League standard as a manager. Nevertheless, it is possible that one manager can outsmart another on any given day (see the hundreds of cup upsets over the years) and this might've happened in the City game too.

  On 05/02/2011 at 19:45, BuckyRover said:

Alex Ferguson was unproven in this league once. Your argument could result in no other managers ever appearing in this league.

It's not going to be easy but shrieking after a poor result is not going to help is it?

Ah yes, comparing a man who beat Real Madrid with Aberdeen in a European final with our man who had never managed before.

You really are on fire today...

[broadsword]

  On 05/02/2011 at 19:45, BuckyRover said:

Alex Ferguson was unproven in this league once. Your argument could result in no other managers ever appearing in this league.

It's not going to be easy but shrieking after a poor result is not going to help is it?

Alex Ferguson had a track record of management in Scotland, I think I am right in saying that before he went to Man Utd he was caretaker manager for Scotland at Mexico '86.

Steve Kean came completely out of the left field.

The two are in no way comparable.

[RIML]

At the game I shouted something like we'd not won away at Wigan since 2005 and some guy said I was wrong, he thought we won last season but it was definitely 1-1, I was certain I was right but now I'm questioning myself, can anyone confirm if I am right?

I don't care what anyone says about Robinson, Pedersen and Nelsen any more because at least they had the decency to applaud the supporters after the game, I didn't see Samba applauding us, our team captain too, he's gone down in my estimation.

[RovertheHill]

Conceding 2 goals against a rubbish bottom club? Fergie out

[chris]

yeah there are better examples to use the Sir Alex

[brfc4ever]

Any news on Kalinic ? Injured or just left out ?

[JAL]

Right now this result does not look good for Steve Kean with Rovers conceding four goals at the DW Stadium FFS.

Alarm bells should be ringing loud and clear on this guy.

[chris]

  On 05/02/2011 at 19:56, RIML said:

At the game I shouted something like we'd not won away at Wigan since 2005 and some guy said I was wrong, he thought we won last season but it was definitely 1-1, I was certain I was right but now I'm questioning myself, can anyone confirm if I am right?

I don't care what anyone says about Robinson, Pedersen and Nelsen any more because at least they had the decency to applaud the supporters after the game, I didn't see Samba applauding us, our team captain too, he's gone down in my estimation.

who on earth were you shouting that to in the first place?

[tony gale's mic]

  On 05/02/2011 at 19:49, bluebruce said:

Uhhh. My only point was that it is too early to judge Kean yet. He may have just got a honeymoon period earlyish, or it may be taking time for him to fully impose his methods on the team and learn the ropes. Although I think it was a bizarre appointment, it could still be a disastrous appointment, an inspired one, or just plain average. On the basis of similar points totals (the poster I was replying to said we had lost our ability to get points), do you really disagree with this?

Obviously Sam had a long-term, tried and tested portfolio and Kean doesn't, but there isn't a whole lot he can do about that until given the chance. It only makes sense to compare records this season, IMO, with largely the same team.

But the fact is that what Sam achieved with us (and Bolton) over a sustained period of time is something which is VERY difficult to do with a limited budget. The last ten years of Premier League football prove this. No one has, in recent memory, achieved sustained success (ie consistently mid table and above) with attractive football on a limited budget in this league.

However, getting a few good results with a limited team and having a bit of good form in this league with not very much money isn't that hard to do - see the numerous examples of teams over the years who played some attractive football, gave the big teams a bloody nose then came back down to earth very quickly.

But we had dozens of people on here who took one look at the West Brom and Liverpool games and declared Kean to be an improvement over Sam, which was so short sighted it was unbelievable.

[deftangel]

Just watched the manager's post match interview on BBC. Didn't shy away from defensive failings. In fairness, there is not much the manager can do to legislate against several players ball watching as they did for two goals and someone running into Salgado's leg. We've been poor defensively all season whenever I've watched us. White Hart Lane and Off Trafford were similary nightmareish.

But we were definitely a bit too gung ho in this game. Too gung ho to allow Jones to protect the back four on his own whilst he is still adapting to the league. (He's improving but still adjusting to the pace of the game).

Think we should consider playing two sitting midfielders at times, perhaps Emo and Jones until we adapt a bit.

The manager isn't daft and will work on it I'm sure.

[RIML]

  On 05/02/2011 at 19:59, chris said:

who on earth were you shouting that to in the first place?

Well the noise was loud anyway so I was shouting just to be heard by the people around me.

[StroppyMoppy]

  On 05/02/2011 at 19:56, RIML said:

At the game I shouted something like we'd not won away at Wigan since 2005 and some guy said I was wrong, he thought we won last season but it was definitely 1-1, I was certain I was right but now I'm questioning myself, can anyone confirm if I am right?

We last won at Wigan in the 2006/07 season.

http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/head_to_head.sd?team_id=2783&team2_id=308

[imy9]

We conceded 5 when Hughes was at the helm and lost by three under Ince, bizarrely enough this is one of our better results at the DW over the last couple of seasons.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Not a good result.

It's like groundhog day

We're not good enough to pass it round all day. We haven't got the right players (yet)

The core of today's side could not do it under Ince's tactics (use the word loosely)...or under Allardyce's'. We still haven't got a midfielder that can sit and pass or a 20 goal striker.

Until then we will be a bottom to mid table team - that's the reality.

Kean deserves a crack but feel that they should be looking to bring in a Director of football type presence (not Maradonna!)

This season was always going to be a struggle after the lack of spending in summer. If anyone in summer had said you can have new investors and 17th place I'd have taken it in a shot.

Forget Europe and top ten. Keep out of the bottom 3, carry on the rebuilding in summer. Three or four 1st team signings then and we can look upwards.

[RIML]

  On 05/02/2011 at 20:01, StroppyMoppy said:

We last won at Wigan in the 2006/07 season.

http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/head_to_head.sd?team_id=2783&team2_id=308

2006, I was nearly right he tried saying we won last season

EDIT - won away**

[bluebruce]

  On 05/02/2011 at 20:02, RIML said:

2006, I was nearly right he tried saying we won last season

EDIT - won away**

No, 2007. It was in January that season.

[JAL]

  On 05/02/2011 at 20:00, deftangel said:

Just watched the manager's post match interview on BBC. Didn't shy away from defensive failings. In fairness, there is not much the manager can do to legislate against several players ball watching as they did for two goals and someone running into Salgado's leg. We've been poor defensively all season whenever I've watched us. White Hart Lane and Off Trafford were similary nightmareish.

But we were definitely a bit too gung ho in this game. Too gung ho to allow Jones to protect the back four on his own whilst he is still adapting to the league. (He's improving but still adjusting to the pace of the game).

Think we should consider playing two sitting midfielders at times, perhaps Emo and Jones until we adapt a bit.

The manager isn't daft and will work on it I'm sure.

Kean is just another guy who talks a good game, yet when it comes to it HE falls short of the winning post more times than not.

If, Rovers survive this season they certainly wont come next season under Steve Kean.

  On 05/02/2011 at 20:05, JAL said:

[darwenblueswearehere]

  On 05/02/2011 at 19:59, tony gale said:

But the fact is that what Sam achieved with us (and Bolton) over a sustained period of time is something which is VERY difficult to do with a limited budget. The last ten years of Premier League football prove this. No one has, in recent memory, achieved sustained success (ie consistently mid table and above) with attractive football on a limited budget in this league.

However, getting a few good results with a limited team and having a bit of good form in this league with not very much money isn't that hard to do - see the numerous examples of teams over the years who played some attractive football, gave the big teams a bloody nose then came back down to earth very quickly.

But we had dozens of people on here who took one look at the West Brom and Liverpool games and declared Kean to be an improvement over Sam, which was so short sighted it was unbelievable.

Sam's gone - end of story. Knee jerk reactions (on either side of the 'debate') after every game are not the way to approach this. Let's judge Kean on his own merits after a sustained run of games. It takes time to change a team tactically. What's the bloody point in comparing our current and previous managers after every match???

[RIML]

  On 05/02/2011 at 20:04, bluebruce said:

No, 2007. It was in January that season.

I looked at that link too I'm emotionally drained after today