[Archived] John Williams Leaves

[Exiled in Toronto]

Look there are things that some posters do know about the club, that they cannot completely reveal.

For example I was told way back in Decemeber via pm - that Sam & JW would be leaving very soon. That has been proved truthful.

That's hardly Mystic Meg territory though is it? 9 out of 10 of us here would have come up with that if asked to predict what might happen, and both were going to leave sometime or other anyway.

How many of those 'in the know' knew in advance about Kean getting the job?

[67splitscreen]

Well they are making up when they left the UK as they definitely flew out on Thursday evening on Swiss. They may also have had reservations on Friday but they went on Thursday.

'Swiss' good chance they were not going directly back yo Pune then. The Swiaa Air flight at 18.50 from MAN requires a minimum twelve hour stop over in Zurich maybe they were going to have a look at the new factory???? or to discuss a new unexpected appointment to the boardroom with advisor's in the local.

[Exiled in Toronto]

That's my point exactly. We can only judge on what we see and what we can read. One thing that strikes me is that JW is an honest man and I don't think he'd say he chose to leave without it being true. No matter what people say, JW says he chose to leave and that means he isn't interested in doing the job any more. That, in all regards, is losing interest whether you like it or not.

Agreed. Loving Rovers doesn't mean that one cannot fall out of love with working there when one's job has been emasculated.

[PAFELL]

That's my point exactly. We can only judge on what we see and what we can read. One thing that strikes me is that JW is an honest man and I don't think he'd say he chose to leave without it being true. No matter what people say, JW says he chose to leave and that means he isn't interested in doing the job any more. That, in all regards, is losing interest whether you like it or not.

Honest men also have integrety and respect for people. for example, JW would not come out and say 'the Venky's are bunch of useless, no good, gutter type gangster thugs'. Even if that was what he thought and believed. There is often grace in a resignation statement. Of course he wishes the Venky's well, because he wants the club to do well.

You are right we all can only make judgements on what we know or see or hear. Everything else would only be based on speculation and guesswork and self opinion, on how we view things.

[PAFELL]

That's hardly Mystic Meg territory though is it? 9 out of 10 of us here would have come up with that if asked to predict what might happen, and both were going to leave sometime or other anyway. NO NOT MYSTIC MEG STUFF. BUT OTHER THINGS WERE SAID AT THE TIME THAT, I NOW REALISE WERE NOT GUESS WORK.

How many of those 'in the know' knew in advance about Kean getting the job?

Well that one I was not told. But if Kean is telling the truth, then no did he until the last minute. For that reason alone I am prepared to give Kean a little bit of slack. He is bound to get things wrong. In the short time he has been the manager he has gone to India twice, had the turmoil of becoming the new manager to contend with as well as the media spotlight that comes with it. Initial unrest amongst the players and a transfer window to contend with. Plus getting the team to change tactis etc etc etc. Hopefully now the window is closed etc, Kean can now concentrate on getting the team playing better.

[92er]

We have a 100% loss record since John left and have been conceding 4 goals on average...

Coincidence?

Very funny!

[Steve Moss]

For what its worth it is my 'opinion' that JW was treated terribly, it is my 'opinion' that Sam was treated terribly, it is my 'opinion' that agents have no part in the running of the game and it is my 'opinion' that matters could have been handled more professionally.

I can't argue with anything in that statement. Well said.

Ronaldhino would probably have been the biggest signing in the history of the club a twice world footballer of the year and only 30.

It would have been on the back of my shirt.

Maybe it was a stupid offer and unlikely, too soon but still.

This promote their brand is a good thing, my impression is success is the only option, their pride could not handle failure..

I also would have had a Ronaldinho shirt. And I'm glad Venkys tried, even if it was a long shot.

And I agree that Venkys have 'pride'. Hopefully it will be enough to see us through.

JW RESIGNED and according to one of the LT reports AGREED what would no doubt have been a very handsome compensation package prior to the Spurs game.

What part of that do you find hard to understand?

I've frequently been involved in the resignation of key employees of various businesses. Sometimes its straight forward, a valued employee just wants to retire and go fishing, so the bosses throw a good-bye party, present the metaphorical gold watch and pledge to keep in touch. Sometimes its not so straight forward, in that an employee feels, rightly or wrongly, that they've been frozen out and marginalized, and so resign in protest. And sometimes its a downright power play, in that the employee is given the choice of resigning, and keeping dignity intact, or being fired.

I don't know where JW falls along the spectrum. However, talk of compensation and a rather bland good-bye is an indication that it was not the happiest of leave takings.

I think that's the point people are trying to make. Right or wrong, fans feel themselves to be part of the club, not just spectators, but part-owners.

As fans we are emotionally invested in the club. Thought clouds our logic and causes us to believe we are entitled to more than we actually are. Of course, the marketing department is well aware of this and use it to sell the product, which reinforces our committment to the club while at the same time reinforcing our sense of entitlement. As indicating by our word choices, 'our' club for example, when in reality its Venkys' club.

[92er]

and the attitide among many of those in the know that somehow if you're not you're dim. We're not dim.

I don't read their postings that way.

For me it's more along the lines of " there are some really bad things going on that I have heard about. I can allude to them but at this stage I cannot divulge them. Indeed I might never be able to divulge them but I am trying to give other posters-the vast majority of whom are fans of this club- a hint that things are not as they should be".

In other words there quite a lot of posters who I would trust with the info they post, even if they cannot go into full details.

[American]

I think the problem with a lot of the "in the know" posters is that for every time they are right they are usually wrong a dozen times. I don't doubt that they have their sources, but, with a few notable exceptions, the vast majority are not nearly as clued in as they like to make out.

Agreed. The people they are getting the info from might not be as clued in as they used to be to the inner circle of the club's management....

Our company just got taken over and people who used to be in the know can now only speculate and pass on rumor and gossip they are hearing that might not be accurate.

[roverwhelmed]

I can't argue with anything in that statement. Well said.

I also would have had a Ronaldinho shirt. And I'm glad Venkys tried, even if it was a long shot.

And I agree that Venkys have 'pride'. Hopefully it will be enough to see us through.

I've frequently been involved in the resignation of key employees of various businesses. Sometimes its straight forward, a valued employee just wants to retire and go fishing, so the bosses throw a good-bye party, present the metaphorical gold watch and pledge to keep in touch. Sometimes its not so straight forward, in that an employee feels, rightly or wrongly, that they've been frozen out and marginalized, and so resign in protest. And sometimes its a downright power play, in that the employee is given the choice of resigning, and keeping dignity intact, or being fired.

I don't know where JW falls along the spectrum. However, talk of compensation and a rather bland good-bye is an indication that it was not the happiest of leave takings.

As fans we are emotionally invested in the club. Thought clouds our logic and causes us to believe we are entitled to more than we actually are. Of course, the marketing department is well aware of this and use it to sell the product, which reinforces our committment to the club while at the same time reinforcing our sense of entitlement. As indicating by our word choices, 'our' club for example, when in reality its Venkys' club.

They may own it, but I will always consider myself a massive stakeholder and that BRFC belongs to me and thousands of people just like me, at least sentimentally. I always felt like we mattered to our club, in a way that my friends who support Liverpool, United, etc, just couldn't get their heads around. It isn't just ch-ching, the supporters mattered to JW and the club as a whole.

It is so hard to swallow that Venky's could literally do ANYTHING to Rovers now, they have the right to of course, but I hope they respect our heritage and our ways. It is hard to believe that they do just now, but I am willing to give them a chance.

What other option is there?

[Steve Moss]

^ There isn't anything you or I can do, except vote with our wallets. And neither you nor I would find that a viable solution. So Venkys (and owners every where) keeps us (the fans) over a barrell.

And I also consider myself a stakeholder in the club, but that is emotion talking, not logic. The best equivalent I can think of off the top of my head is that we are men who are wrapped around a woman's finger. It can be a beautiful thing if its the right woman, or a nightmare if not.

[Miker]

No matter what people say, JW says he chose to leave and that means he isn't interested in doing the job any more. That, in all regards, is losing interest whether you like it or not.

No offense to you, but that's a bit of a daft statement. I chose to leave my last position because new management came in and they made my position unpleasant and untenable. I didn't fit in with their way of doing things and they refused to take my experience on board. What more is they tried to get rid of me through underhanded means. I switched to a higher department after a complaint to HR.

I never lost my interest in the company or the job, in fact I still help out that department regularly from my new position even though it's not part of my job. I DID lose interest in working for people I couldn't stand being around though, who were later ALL fired for what I'll only describe as "unprofessional conduct".

[RevidgeBlue]

I'm not sure why many people struggle to accept anything Mrs. Desai says at face value.

It is not unreasonable that Venky's would want to take a far more hands on role than the Trustees. It is not inconceivable or unreasonable that that would result in JW's responsibilities changing or reducing. It is not inconceivable or unreasonable that JW would not be happy with that. It is not inconceivable or unreasonable that JW would have grown close to Sam the manager he appointed. It is not inconceivable or unreasonable that he would have been unhappy about having to sack him. It is not altogether surprising and in my view no particular slight on JW to suggest that he might "lose interest" in his role as a result of all the above.

[philipl]

I'm not sure why many people struggle to accept anything Mrs. Desai says at face value.

It is not unreasonable that Venky's would want to take a far more hands on role than the Trustees. It is not inconceivable or unreasonable that that would result in JW's responsibilities changing or reducing. It is not inconceivable or unreasonable that JW would not be happy with that. It is not inconceivable or unreasonable that JW would have grown close to Sam the manager he appointed. It is not inconceivable or unreasonable that he would have been unhappy about having to sack him. It is not altogether surprising and in my view no particular slight on JW to suggest that he might "lose interest" in his role as a result of all the above.

Which of the self-contradictory statements made over the past twelve weeks should we take at face value?

[broadsword]

I'm not sure why many people struggle to accept anything Mrs. Desai says at face value.

Incredible.

[alexanders]

One of the worst things I have done business wise is having to sack a person. Him being close with JW as well would have been very difficult for JW to do.

[CrazyIvan]

Which of the self-contradictory statements made over the past twelve weeks should we take at face value?

Frankly, the same question could be asked of you!

I don't think anything written in the papers or read out on Sky Sports News should be taken at face value. The problem is that we have literally NOTHING else to judge this situation by. You say you have more information. Fair enough but unless you tell us something of what it is, it's going to be discounted because it's purely rumour and someone on a message board being a 'billy-big-boots-know-more-than-you-with-my-inside-information'. Your record speaks for itself in this regard as well.

Clearly, there were issues with John Williams, Venkys and Steve Kean. What they were, we don't know. Personality clash? Completely different way of working? Sidelined Chairman? All rumour and supposition and nothing definitive. Maybe JW's memoirs (if they ever get written) will throw light on the situation. We DO know that JW really did not like sacking Big Sam. Most of us agree that was wrong; wrong timing, wrong way of doing it and a completely stupid way of going about it.

Venkys have their image problems with Rovers fans. You're not helping the situation with hints of rumours.

[Kelbo]

Contradictory statements? Philip, that puts it quite mildly, from my view, some of the statements from our owners appear to be downright lies!!

[philipl]

Frankly, the same question could be asked of you!

I don't think anything written in the papers or read out on Sky Sports News should be taken at face value. The problem is that we have literally NOTHING else to judge this situation by. You say you have more information. Fair enough but unless you tell us something of what it is, it's going to be discounted because it's purely rumour and someone on a message board being a 'billy-big-boots-know-more-than-you-with-my-inside-information'. Your record speaks for itself in this regard as well.

Clearly, there were issues with John Williams, Venkys and Steve Kean. What they were, we don't know. Personality clash? Completely different way of working? Sidelined Chairman? All rumour and supposition and nothing definitive. Maybe JW's memoirs (if they ever get written) will throw light on the situation. We DO know that JW really did not like sacking Big Sam. Most of us agree that was wrong; wrong timing, wrong way of doing it and a completely stupid way of going about it.

Venkys have their image problems with Rovers fans. You're not helping the situation with hints of rumours.

Image problem is an understatement!

And it is all their own doing.

[Miker]

I don't think anything written in the papers or read out on Sky Sports News should be taken at face value.

Ehhh it wasn't something that was mistranslated in the papers or an exaggerated piece of news reporting on TV... most of these contradictory statements came straight from the mouths of our owners. I listened to many of these audio interviews where one thing was said, only to be contradicted a couple days later. I'm more than happy to ignore the deranged ramblings of the media, but clear contradictory statements in interviews is another thing altogether.

[mhead]

Let it rest.Get on with your life.

[CrazyIvan]

Ehhh it wasn't something that was mistranslated in the papers or an exaggerated piece of news reporting on TV... most of these contradictory statements came straight from the mouths of our owners. I listened to many of these audio interviews where one thing was said, only to be contradicted a couple days later. I'm more than happy to ignore the deranged ramblings of the media, but clear contradictory statements in interviews is another thing altogether.

Most of the contradictions were reported ones. There was the occasional one in interviews and I think some of that has to do with the language barrier and our intepretation of what they actually mean. There were some clear contradictions though, some of which have been over-analysed on here and made into large whips to beat Venkys with. They have done and said some stupid things but some of the stuff people have said on here is clearly spun from an agenda. Let's balance this out and say they've been completely naive in their dealings with us and with the press. They've changed their plans more than once at, seemingly, the drop of a hat. Whether they have actually gone back on their word is up for debate regarding some things. Regarding Sam, yes they did and that's pretty clear I think.

An old saying, 'believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see'.

Image problem is an understatement!

And it is all their own doing.

But you really don't help do you? And why is that?

[Pete1981]

Vinjays view

[rebelmswar]

Let it rest.Get on with your life.

No

[philip369]

No

Whilst i appreciate that in the story of 'the boy who cried wolf' in the end end there was a wolf!

I have ear ache from all the shouting!