[Archived] John Williams Leaves

[Mattyblue]

Apart from the unmentionable Ince, we stayed competitive over a decade regulary getting in the top half, even 6th, 7th, 8th and numerous cup semi finals with no benefactor,and you think JW had the wrong model and should have copied Wolves/West Brom?

Do me a favour!

[deftangel]

I don't think that's what he was saying.

We were in the doldrums when Souness left and the Trust saw fit to splash out on Cole in 2002 because they were suitably concerned. I think it's fair to see the club has been run well up until this point and our overspend on wages policy has got us to this point.

I think it's fair to say it had also taken us as far as it could and life without a new owner would have been praying we don't have the one bad season that could see us down and out of it. The stakes in this little merry-go-round are getting higher and higher both in terms of the money and the competitiveness of the league outside say the top 8. It is unrealistic for the club to expect a manager to continually pull rabbits out of hats keeping us up season after season. All managers have a shelf life, even Allardyce. There was plenty of chat about him getting canned before a crunch game last season.

Rightly or wrongly, Venky's did not buy the club just to survive and keep ticking over. Therefore it is obvious they are going to run the club a different way. This may fail. Carrying on with the same strategy ad infinitum would have definitely failed eventually. How many windows of signing Benjani were we going to survive exactly?

[thenodrog]

I don't think that's what he was saying.

We were in the doldrums when Souness left and the Trust saw fit to splash out on Cole in 2002 because they were suitably concerned. I think it's fair to see the club has been run well up until this point and our overspend on wages policy has got us to this point.

That doesn't read right deftangel. I reads as if Cole came and went AFTER GS. Souness was in fact the manager when we bought Andy Cole for 8m and still the manager when we gave him away to Fulham for nowt cos the two of them had had a spat. 8m plus wages blown in two years. Is it any wonder the Walker Trust clamped down on such crass financial stupidity?

[deftangel]

Oops that I meant. The trust sanctioned the purchase of Cole under Souness because they were wary of relegation. Then we were in the doldrums when Souness left and again after Ince. Last year, Sam supposedly had a few games to save his job.

So the point I was making (badly) is that we probably spent as much time flirting with the drop as Europe since we came up.

[47er]

Here is a question for you 47er, can you find me a post anywhere that I have not criticised the mistakes that Venkys have made? Can you find a post where I have not praised JW for the job that he has done? Is this not balance.. but wait I dare to hold an opinion that Venkys maybe, just maybe want to make us successful and that there mistakes, yes mistakes are due to them being new to football and are not terminal mistakes but ones that can be corrected.

That post does not make sense. For example,the post above---------you have not criticised the mistakes that Venkys have made in it!

To make it simple------can you show me a post where you have criticised them?

What? Are people not reading on this messageboard anymore? What's more disrespectful, his opinion or William's tenure or a cheap dig like that? We are all supposed to be Rovers fans here.

The strategy in recent years of over-paying on wages to attract/retain the right talent to keep us in the league was not sustainable. It gets even more unsustainable with the UEFA stuff coming down the pipe. The solution has to be to try and develop more revenue from other sources & markets. For all the good things that he has done, this is not generally something Williams has been particularly noted for achieving. I've read many comments on these boards over the years suggesting that our commercial operations of the club have been poor. From the club shop to difficulties for casual fans to get tickets to marketing and promotion around Lancashire.

I say that completely acknowledging the good work the club have done in that area including the Taking back Ewood campaigns and the best value ticket prices in the league. Worthwhile initiatives that make it even harder to generate more revenue.

Clearly, boosting the revenue of the club is going to take some radical thinking. Venky's plan may or may not work but they appear to at least want to try and do something different as opposed to the previous administration who were in my view, overly conservative.

But if holding that opinion makes me some kind of Venky's spin doctor, I might as well delete my 9 year old account here now.

A complete distortion of what I was saying. A lot of people on here are aghast at some of the things Venkys have done. Imy isn't.

That doesn't mean I'm not pleased with other things they've done. Therein lies the balance.

[imy9]

47er- ok let me rephrase for you, if you read through my posts I have tried to keep an open mind about Venkys and have been critical when needed to be, for example the mixed messages that they have been sending out, the timing of SAMs firing being another. If this makes me a Venkys mouthpiece I expect you are going to refer to the countless people who have criticised Venkys as Venky haters and the people saying positive things about JW as members of his fan club?

I'm not going to apologise for being optomistic about Venkys, as I genuinely believe that they will be good for our club.

[47er]

47er- ok let me rephrase for you, if you read through my posts I have tried to keep an open mind about Venkys and have been critical when needed to be, for example the mixed messages that they have been sending out, the timing of SAMs firing being another. If this makes me a Venkys mouthpiece I expect you are going to refer to the countless people who have criticised Venkys as Venky haters and the people saying positive things about JW as members of his fan club?

I'm not going to apologise for being optomistic about Venkys, as I genuinely believe that they will be good for our club.

Look--no point in going on anymore. I'm optimistic about the longer-term too but the more pressure they get for the ham-fisted way they have gone about things at times, the quicker our optimism will be realised.

In particular, a three and a half year contract for Kean is ludicrous, as was his selection in the first place. But we are apparently stuck with him so let's hope he comes good------starting Saturday.

If we lose, the doubts will grow.

[imy9]

Hiring Kean was a strange one, but based in what he has done so far I have been impressed, i.e style of play, honest interviews, but results are vital and I think we need to start winning soon starting tomorrow I hope!

One thing I would say about the 3 yr deal, if Kean is the man Venkys want there is no point giving him a deal til the end of the season or even a year deal as which player is going to extend a contract or come to the club not knowing what is going to happen.

[Kelbo]

I do like the idea of getting younger players and developing them, that is an ideal scenario for a club Rovers size, however, to do this you really do need a first class coaching team and we havent got this at Rovers, along with an untested manager at any level, maybe a Wenger could have a chance.

Best thing I would suggest is they look at a young enthusiastic Spanish coach as they are light years ahead of us here in the UK, then we would have the opportunity to develop players the proper way!

And yes, Kean was not just a bad aaapointment but a plain stupid one, he could do OK, hope he does but I think he is very naive in many ways and wil have to learn very quickly.

[Miker]

This might be stupid, so correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding from reading the figures in my link suggests that the promoted clubs spend relatively little on players in the Championship compared to players playing in the Premier League. Sunderland by those figures were still keeping their wage spending relatively low after staying up the previous season, following promotion.

Now if clubs like West Brom and Wolves are constantly yo-yoing between leagues, I imagine their wages would not have the chance to increase substantially.

In comparison to a club like ours, who have managed to stay in the top division for many, many years now... The same would not apply. Given our challenges for European spots over the last 10 years and regular top 10 finishes, I would assume that wages would increase accordingly and players of good enough level to achieve those league positions would have to be brought in. To do this for over 10 years, is not easy. To do it on the minor amount of revenue we get is nothing short of extraordinary. How many other clubs in a similar financial position to ours has been able to boast similar long-term success in the league? I can only think of Bolton.

I am interested to hear what Venky's business model will be. If they want top 6 finishes then I struggle to think how they can achieve this while keeping our wage bill lower than it is now. The only option is to find other ways of increasing revenues and you have to wonder what those ways will be. The question is, will they use their own money to cover losses if it all goes belly-up for them? I would hope yes, and this is the chief difference I expect from the previous regime.

[Paul]

The question is, will they use their own money to cover losses if it all goes belly-up for them? I would hope yes, and this is the chief difference I expect from the previous regime.>

I may be mistaken but surely the Trust's record of effectively "writing off" (through conversion of loans to share capital) was using their "own" money to support the club. In this sense "own" being Trust money as opposed to debt other than the overdraft.

With Venky's we don't know the position other than this. On January 4th a new mortgage charge covering all media revenues (perhaps £35-40 million or more) was taken out with Barclays bank.

For me this suggests the opposite of what we would both hope for - Venky's using their own money to fund the club. The only firm evidence available to date suggests otherwise. With the Trust history proves it was "own" money.

[tonyoz]

I do like the idea of getting younger players and developing them, that is an ideal scenario for a club Rovers size, however, to do this you really do need a first class coaching team and we havent got this at Rovers, along with an untested manager at any level, maybe a Wenger could have a chance.

Best thing I would suggest is they look at a young enthusiastic Spanish coach as they are light years ahead of us here in the UK, then we would have the opportunity to develop players the proper way!

And yes, Kean was not just a bad aaapointment but a plain stupid one, he could do OK, hope he does but I think he is very naive in many ways and wil have to learn very quickly.

Sam thought Kean was a good 'un when he appointed him:

"After interviewing him for the first-team coach vacancy at Blackburn last year, Sam Allardyce refused to let Kean leave the training ground until he had signed a contract."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/english-football/steve-kean-the-understated-scot-handed-the-reigns-at-blackburn-1.1074708

Most of the rest of the team were appointed by Sam too, weren't they?

[Miker]

I may be mistaken but surely the Trust's record of effectively "writing off" (through conversion of loans to share capital) was using their "own" money to support the club. In this sense "own" being Trust money as opposed to debt other than the overdraft.

With Venky's we don't know the position other than this. On January 4th a new mortgage charge covering all media revenues (perhaps £35-40 million or more) was taken out with Barclays bank.

For me this suggests the opposite of what we would both hope for - Venky's using their own money to fund the club. The only firm evidence available to date suggests otherwise. With the Trust history proves it was "own" money.

I wasn't actually aware of this, but if it's true then it definitely puts the Trust in a better light and creates more concern about the new owners. I was under the impression that Venky's would be using more of their own money to fund the club than the Trust could, but I realise this is just what I have hoped for, not necessarily what will happen.

[Kelbo]

Sam thought Kean was a good 'un when he appointed him:

"After interviewing him for the first-team coach vacancy at Blackburn last year, Sam Allardyce refused to let Kean leave the training ground until he had signed a contract."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/english-football/steve-kean-the-understated-scot-handed-the-reigns-at-blackburn-1.1074708

Most of the rest of the team were appointed by Sam too, weren't they?

We are speaking about a Manager, not a coach!!

And an untried one at that.

[47er]

We are speaking about a Manager, not a coach!!

And an untried one at that.

Exactly! And we've had this one before! Sam thought he'd appointed a good team coach---that is all that can be deduced.

[Miker]

Sam thought Kean was a good 'un when he appointed him:

"After interviewing him for the first-team coach vacancy at Blackburn last year, Sam Allardyce refused to let Kean leave the training ground until he had signed a contract."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/english-football/steve-kean-the-understated-scot-handed-the-reigns-at-blackburn-1.1074708

Most of the rest of the team were appointed by Sam too, weren't they?

He appointed him as a first team coach though, not a manager. I'm pretty sure that the appointments Sam could make were strictly limited given our financial stranglehold. So any staff appointed would've been good, but not necessarily first-class. Although to be fair, our coaching staff seem to have done well with the likes of Hoilett, Olsson and Jones.

[tonyoz]

We are speaking about a Manager, not a coach!!

And an untried one at that.

You said we don't have a good enough coaching team?

[thenodrog]

I

Hiring Kean was a strange one, but based in what he has done so far I have been impressed, i.e style of play, honest interviews, but results are vital and I think we need to start winning soon starting tomorrow I hope!

One thing I would say about the 3 yr deal, if Kean is the man Venkys want there is no point giving him a deal til the end of the season or even a year deal as which player is going to extend a contract or come to the club not knowing what is going to happen.

'Kean is the man Venkeys want'? Lets get this right imy. Lets look at the parties behind this. It is my belief that.....

Venkey's know the square root of sweet FA about football. That much is indisputable. They have absolutely no idea whatsoever of the qualities, talents, experience etc etc required to be a successful Premier League manager. In their eyes Anderson has become an absolute must have person. Through their limited knowledge they have by necessity put much trust in a man who unfortunately must have a conflict of interests.

Jerome Anderson is a football agent. He is a clever man and his motivation is money and profit for himself and his business before the best interests of BRFC.

[Kean is a Kentaro man, he pays his 20% or whatever to Kentaro to handle his affairs and develop his career. Hence why Kean is the man Jerome Anderson wanted in charge and why Anderson wanted Kean on a 3 year deal. If Kean fails and is sacked tomorrow he will have to be paid up and guess who will have 20% of that? So imy do you think the appointment of Steve Kean was made in the best interests of BRFC or in the best interests of Jerome Anderson?

As it was Kentaro stood to get nowt out of Sam Allardyce. Neither 20% of Sams salary nor a manager compliant or subservient enough to have a variety of Carlos Kickaballs thrust upon him with the sole purpose of displaying and marketing them into the lucrative European shop window. imo thats why SA had to go. To quote Richard Key's .... they were the Dark forces that were at work.

They say Jerome Anderson has made an office for himself at Brockhall and that he spends much time there. Do you think his primary motivation is the best interests of BRFC or the best interests of himself?

[imy9]

I

'Kean is the man Venkeys want'? Lets get this right imy. Lets look at the parties behind this. It is my belief that.....

Venkey's know the square root of sweet FA about football. That much is indisputable. They have absolutely no idea whatsoever of the qualities, talents, experience etc etc required to be a successful Premier League manager. In their eyes Anderson has become an absolute must have person. Through their limited knowledge they have by necessity put much trust in a man who unfortunately must have a conflict of interests.

Jerome Anderson is a football agent. He is a clever man and his motivation is money and profit for himself and his business before the best interests of BRFC.

[Kean is a Kentaro man, he pays his 20% or whatever to Kentaro to handle his affairs and develop his career. Hence why Kean is the man Jerome Anderson wanted in charge and why Anderson wanted Kean on a 3 year deal. If Kean fails and is sacked tomorrow he will have to be paid up and guess who will have 20% of that? So imy do you think the appointment of Steve Kean was made in the best interests of BRFC or in the best interests of Jerome Anderson?

As it was Kentaro stood to get nowt out of Sam Allardyce. Neither 20% of Sams salary nor a manager compliant or subservient enough to have a variety of Carlos Kickaballs thrust upon him with the sole purpose of displaying and marketing them into the lucrative European shop window. imo thats why SA had to go. To quote Richard Key's .... they were the Dark forces that were at work.

They say Jerome Anderson has made an office for himself at Brockhall and that he spends much time there. Do you think his primary motivation is the best interests of BRFC or the best interests of himself?

1. What was the Trusts' football acumen like? They are relying on Anderson who obviously does know something about football and obviously has contacts around the world- we'll have to see how this relationship works.

2. I'm glad you know so much about Mr Anderson, I have never met him so couldn't possibly tell you his motivation in life, one thing which is obvious, Anderson's success lies in Blackburn Rovers succeeding, NOT failing.

3. Last line of point 2 should answer that.

4. We have signed FOUR players so far and NO Kentaro clients, if quick money was wanted then surely this would be done asap?

Finally to sum up succinctly, if anyone makes money out of Blackburn Rovers FC it will be if we are successful, if that is the case then everyone will be happy, but I think we need to wait to see what happens instead of scaremongering.

[philipl]

Finally to sum up succinctly, if anyone makes money out of Blackburn Rovers FC it will be if we are successful, if that is the case then everyone will be happy, but I think we need to wait to see what happens instead of scaremongering.

Imy you have written some hugely speculative stuff on here but that is a cracker.

Rovers could lose every game and go bust but the agents and players would still make fortunes.

[imy9]

Imy you have written some hugely speculative stuff on here but that is a cracker.

Rovers could lose every game and go bust but the agents and players would still make fortunes.

With all due respect Phillip, did you not feel the irony when you wrote that!

Ill tweak the line: "if anyone makes BIG money out of Blackburn Rovers FC it will be if we are successful"

This a messageboard, 99% of what we write is speculative, unless you are Nicko, BPF, Unleaded and a few others whose % are a lot higher because they have "insider" info, I most certainly dont.

If the idea is to get young players in and make big profits when you sell them then that is a systematic long term goal, similar to Udinese and Arsenal. Getting relegated, making a few quid from a loan deal or a managers 3 yr deal is small fry compared to selling players for £20 million say, consistently.

[philipl]

With all due respect Phillip, did you not feel the irony when you wrote that!

None whatsoever.

[American]

None whatsoever.

Not shocking as you tend to be clueless lately...

[philipl]

Not shocking as you tend to be clueless lately...

Nope, the world moves on- facts change. We are not using an agent but Jerome Anderson has an office at Brockhall, we are standing by the management so we sack Sam, John Williams position is not in doubt but we will completely ignore and humiliate him, we are not after Ronaldinho but we are, we are not interested in Maradona but we are ringing him up every day... that sort of thing.

[American]

5 players want to leave, we're selling Jones against his will, we're selling Samba to raise cash, we should bid for Alonso....