[Archived] John Williams Leaves

[PAFELL]

CrazyIvan, you are certainly not a troll, in fact I like your many contributions to this board and it is out of respect for that that I will respond. I don't normally see it as any part of my existence to apologise for or even to defend personal opinions that others don't agree with. However, here we go - there has been a surge of postings on here since the Venky takeover from people whose opinions I find childish and abusive. They specialise in not attacking the idea but by attacking the person posting it. I understand the term for that person on a message board is troll. It is in this context alone that I used the word.

From the beginning people on here have been privy to information regarding the bidding process and the eventual takeover. Simple as that, nothing more. With that information in their heads they contribute posts on a supporters board (by definition supposedly a collection of like minded interested people) to offer caution to counter certain impressions which they know to be incomplete or false. They cannot come straight out with it of course or someone could lose their job (oops there's a couple of coincidences).

The people I labelled as trolls were never interested in the information they were simply resentful that they weren't part of some perceived 'inner circle clique' that were privy to it and they decided to launch a sustained attack on the poster/s. Not once but over and over. If you want to check it out just one example try the postings of BuckyRover on Philipl (many other examples of course). Seems like ridicule to me.

The upshot is that at some point the poster feels forced into trying to explain why and how they know stuff, not the stuff itself. Well quite frankly they can mind their own business. How many journos reveal their sources? I and others cannot help 'knowing' stuff and I'm fed up with being goaded into justifying my existence on the board, just because I have information and they feel shut out because they haven't.

I always have the option to stay quiet and keep it to myself I suppose but this is a message board of fellow fans after all. If the trolls don't want to read it then that's what the ignore button is for. They should not IMO make up a rule for everyone else ie they don't want to believe stuff so they will ridicule a poster to shut him/her up and demand facts.

For my part I am returning to just being a reader of this board, I've clearly nothing to contribute that's worth taking on trust (oh by the way it seems OK to post 'rumours' but posts that require 'trust' are somehow seen as different and get flamed).

BuckyRover and his pals have won, it's just not worth the effort.

In closing why on earth do they think I or anyone else would get anything from appearing to be a know it all star on a web site? We only post stuff apparently because we want the approbation of fellow supporters yet we don't know each other so how does that work?

I have been close to the bidding process throughout, I know who all the actors were, their agendas and their funds and that's all I'll say on the subject of my knowledge base. BuckyRovers goaded and challenged me earlier into stating what I do for a living that gives me the right to post opinions/knowledge? Get real and who cares anyway, is my opinion only relevant because I have the biggest d!ck on the block. I won't be posting again on anything Venky related so I have nothing to gain from saying this but I will, my information is worth listening to because I'm connected and successful. I have made a lot of money out of my business dealings, I have houses all around the world, I drive supercars, in short I have all this because PEOPLE TRUST ME AND MY OPINIONS. Now, all together - "who cares" - and I totally agree, It's irrelevant BuckyRover, I'm a fan with a bit of inside track knowledge - end of.

Explanation and defence over. Troll I said and troll I meant.

I'll try not to let the door hit my a*se on the way out, to preempt a few responses.

For what its worth it is my 'opinion' that JW was treated terribly, it is my 'opinion' that Sam was treated terribly, it is my 'opinion' that agents have no part in the running of the game and it is my 'opinion' that matters could have been handled more professionally.

You like everybody else is entitled to an opinion and to post the same.

I have always been interested in genuine news about the club and that remains.

I have received various PM's and taken on board what was said. I have also kept those PM's to myself. But I am not a person in the Know, neither have I ever claimed to be. Therefore I am not in a position to say what was told me via PM was true or not.

But keeping PM's to myself and reading various posts, I respond to what is written on the public message board. So when you or philip or anybody esle posts hints about instability etc at the club. I can only reply to the posts, without revealing any PM's. You may not like my replies and you are entitled to do so. But when I am replying to such posts, I am letting you know that you need to say more - but none of you do. That then invites scorn. I do not think people really want to scorn you, philip etc. But when you are witholding things, it can be an open, rightly or wrongly, invite to scorn.

You used the word troll in my direction without justication. I chose to ignore you insults and just put it down to anger and childishness. I have since moved on, these things happen in life. Personaly I respect you as a poster and sincerely hope you continue posting. I may not always agree with you and that is up to me. But when people make statements about things going on, they should also expect to be challenged on those statements.

Things are happening at the club, it is called change. Maybe things we do not like with what the owners are doing or not doing. But they are the owners, it is their money, it is their club as they have bought that right.

i suggest we all just wait and see what happens next - we may not like it, but lets see if it works.

Anyway its POETS (for those who don't know poets, it is P--- OFF EARLY TOMORROWS SATURDAY) day and I am off out for the night, may have a beer or two, or three or ---

3pts for Rovers tomorrow.

[sparkspakespoke]

CrazyIvan, you are certainly not a troll, in fact I like your many contributions to this board and it is out of respect for that that I will respond. I don't normally see it as any part of my existence to apologise for or even to defend personal opinions that others don't agree with. However, here we go - there has been a surge of postings on here since the Venky takeover from people whose opinions I find childish and abusive. They specialise in not attacking the idea but by attacking the person posting it. I understand the term for that person on a message board is troll. It is in this context alone that I used the word.

From the beginning people on here have been privy to information regarding the bidding process and the eventual takeover. Simple as that, nothing more. With that information in their heads they contribute posts on a supporters board (by definition supposedly a collection of like minded interested people) to offer caution to counter certain impressions which they know to be incomplete or false. They cannot come straight out with it of course or someone could lose their job (oops there's a couple of coincidences).

The people I labelled as trolls were never interested in the information they were simply resentful that they weren't part of some perceived 'inner circle clique' that were privy to it and they decided to launch a sustained attack on the poster/s. Not once but over and over. If you want to check it out just one example try the postings of BuckyRover on Philipl (many other examples of course). Seems like ridicule to me.

The upshot is that at some point the poster feels forced into trying to explain why and how they know stuff, not the stuff itself. Well quite frankly they can mind their own business. How many journos reveal their sources? I and others cannot help 'knowing' stuff and I'm fed up with being goaded into justifying my existence on the board, just because I have information and they feel shut out because they haven't.

I always have the option to stay quiet and keep it to myself I suppose but this is a message board of fellow fans after all. If the trolls don't want to read it then that's what the ignore button is for. They should not IMO make up a rule for everyone else ie they don't want to believe stuff so they will ridicule a poster to shut him/her up and demand facts.

For my part I am returning to just being a reader of this board, I've clearly nothing to contribute that's worth taking on trust (oh by the way it seems OK to post 'rumours' but posts that require 'trust' are somehow seen as different and get flamed).

BuckyRover and his pals have won, it's just not worth the effort.

In closing why on earth do they think I or anyone else would get anything from appearing to be a know it all star on a web site? We only post stuff apparently because we want the approbation of fellow supporters yet we don't know each other so how does that work?

I have been close to the bidding process throughout, I know who all the actors were, their agendas and their funds and that's all I'll say on the subject of my knowledge base. BuckyRovers goaded and challenged me earlier into stating what I do for a living that gives me the right to post opinions/knowledge? Get real and who cares anyway, is my opinion only relevant because I have the biggest d!ck on the block. I won't be posting again on anything Venky related so I have nothing to gain from saying this but I will, my information is worth listening to because I'm connected and successful. I have made a lot of money out of my business dealings, I have houses all around the world, I drive supercars, in short I have all this because PEOPLE TRUST ME AND MY OPINIONS. Now, all together - "who cares" - and I totally agree, It's irrelevant BuckyRover, I'm a fan with a bit of inside track knowledge - end of.

Explanation and defence over. Troll I said and troll I meant.

I'll try not to let the door hit my a*se on the way out, to preempt a few responses.

For what its worth it is my 'opinion' that JW was treated terribly, it is my 'opinion' that Sam was treated terribly, it is my 'opinion' that agents have no part in the running of the game and it is my 'opinion' that matters could have been handled more professionally.

Your post and Philpls both seem to avoid mentioning the Syed bid, which Philpl was certainly championing . If you have inside line as both claim tehn I dont understand how you could have been in favour of this. I know there were huge questin marks over his bid and anyone who has any inside knowldge knows what they were.

The club had to be sold, the trust did not want us, you have to acknowledge that. We were left with one viiable buyer in Venkys. We were in whole and they have got us out, you can expect them to now follow the script as we want it written. The reality is the old way of doing things has gone, we have to except this and move on because anything else now would just be p!%sing in the wind.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Well there you have it, I (and others) have been sitting on this for a while now and it eventually happened yesterday, almost on cue eh? As promised here is my post on the subject.

The club that was once BRFC is now no more, pure and simple. The name survives but there are no standard bearers to carry forward what that name stands for. 'Family' has gone out of the window. It's now just a distant arm of some multinational that just happens to be situated in Blackburn (for the time being).

A number of us have been working b*lls out behind the scenes for a while now to try and rescue the situation and on one occasion we actually thought we were very very close but alas we now come to this. There's no rescuing this particular situation, the fat lady has sung.

Can you comment further on this statement out of interest please?

[Mercer]

He was effectively sacked because he was relieved of his previous duties and marginalised by the owners. It happens all the time in takeovers when the new management do not want to deal with the previous incumbents. Doesn't make it right though - it's Venky's loss.

Some would construe as 'constructive dismissal'.

I think most people think that JW's position had become untennable.

He could be walking away with a great package, however, knowing of his love for Rovers, this will not compensate for the personal sorrow and hurt about what seems to have happened.

The fact that Venkys have not commented, unless I've missed it, is, IMO, extremely poor. Personally, I thought Kean's comments were disappointing and, arguably, revealing.

JW deserved much better. He hasn't been perfect, everyone makes mistakes, but he was pretty damm good and has held the Rovers together since Jack passed away.

[thenodrog]

Stop using age as a means to disregard things people say. You both existed in the time frame that's being discussed.

No. As I pointed out to Den earlier age and experience are the difference between intelligence and wisdom.

[thenodrog]

What can any of us do about how the club is run or nor run? Nothing.

Stop going and stop buying tickets and very little else. Obviously.

Posting guidelines prevent me from posting my opinion on this - but thanks for your insight as to what he 'probably' wanted. Good to have such a cast iron explanation.

Go for it TimmyJimmy! It's only bucky.

[artemorethanlabore]

No. As I pointed out to Den earlier age and experience are the difference between intelligence and wisdom.

May wanna keep in mind the distinction between necessary and sufficient condition ^^

[BuckyRover]

Stop going and stop buying tickets and very little else. Obviously.

Go for it TimmyJimmy! It's only bucky.

No point. Me and my pals have already won. I don't know what I've won or who my (brfcs) pals are. But it's always nice to be a winner.

[Majiball]

Did you see Barcelona the other night?

Iniesta was playing as a wing forward

one game or so out of a career 386 over 9 seasons.

It is funny how you keep harping on saying he's a forward, especially when you check out the Barcelona website:

Iniesta.

I wonder what say pedro is classed as since he plays that role all the time.

Pedro

So Bucky I know you'll read through Iniesta's profile statement and yes your going to come back and so it says he now plays as an all out striker. But isn't it funny how despite all that they as I do class him as a midfielder, to quote 'The player from Fuentealbilla has set standards for other attacking midfielders to follow.' not the striker or forward you claim him to be.

You'll also notice distinctly that in his personal details the club he plays for Barcalona say the following:

PERSONAL DETAILS

Name: Andrés Iniesta Luján

Position: midfielder

Place of birth: Fuentealbilla (Albacete)

Date: 11-05-1984

Height: 1'70

Weight: 65

Debut

Brujas-FC Barcelona (0-1, Champions League), 29/10/2002

Position midfielder not forward, not wing forward, not striker, so put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[thenodrog]

The club's now radioactive?

Toxic might be more accurate.

[JAL]

No point. Me and my pals have already won. I don't know what I've won or who my (brfcs) pals are. But it's always nice to be a winner.

Bucky, I dont think you'd be too impressed if you ever found out what you had won, so please dont dwell too much on it as others may find it quite hilarious.

[BuckyRover]

Very good. It's nice to know I have access to a football researcher.

If you recall, my point was that Barca weren't spending 20/30m on Fabregas for him to warm the bench. I think that point still stands.

[thenodrog]

Wow I was really expecting you to take some serious abuse for that comment, I'll check back later

If exiled rover knew anything at all about football somebody would might have taken him seriously and responded.

[tony gale's mic]

I guess my post must be idiotic as well because i agree with Exiled.

The man himself admitted in several interviews, the LT being one of them that the wage budget was far too high and needed to be brought under control. Even the most ardent supporter of JW will admit his tenure wasn't flawless and that he did make some mistakes.

The wage budget was high but only in relation to our turnover. If you compare our wage budget to the wage budgets of the teams we've been competing with these last few years (ie the mid table teams), it's still considerably less. Yes the wage budget needed to come down but only because the turnover wasn't high enough to sustain it - but then we don't produce anything like the kind of turnover which should ensure a safe mid table slot.

Williams like any employee in any job has made mistakes in the past, but the summary of his reign that Exiled Rover gave:

This is the same guy that gave Pedersen a £40k a week contract, right?

Yes he's been a steady hand for Rovers, but he's made some unbelievable mistakes. He's a big part of the reason why we have so many fringe players we can't shift.

...is still one of the worst things I've read on this board. We're far from the only club in the league with "fringe players we can't shift" - it's called having a squad. Only when you don't have much money to spend, your "squad" players aren't going to be particularly good.

[thenodrog]

Can you comment further on this statement out of interest please?

1. Why should he SG? He said he was not posting again.

2. If he did he'd get more abuse and likely betray others.

[chris]

Exciting? Bloody embarrasing. Getting linked with every washed up south american footballer. Bills of £21m for Ronaldhino! Beckham? Might have been something to talk about but the media saw through it and rightly lambasted the club. Our owner attended her 1st ever match this week. Probably had to ask what shirts we were playing in.

They have even stated their intent. To use us to promote their brand.To go in to a sport you know nothing about and get rid of the people who are experts is incredibly poor management.

Ronaldhino would probably have been the biggest signing in the history of the club a twice world footballer of the year and only 30.

It would have been on the back of my shirt.

Maybe it was a stupid offer and unlikely, too soon but still.

This promote their brand is a good thing, my impression is success is the only option, their pride could not handle failure..

I'm sounding very pro VENKY and thats not always been the case (although I blame a few bu11sh1t rumours for that) and appointing Kean, strange

but I don't think they are that bad really and most improtantly they have money to burn.

[Manchester Blue]

1. Why should he SG? He said he was not posting again.

2. If he did he'd get more abuse and likely betray others.

Just to clarify for you. I gave him abuse simply for the manner of his post this morning, which implied the downfall of the club was down to the fans not listening to those who had told us it would all go wrong, but couldn't tell us details. For the record I wasn't even aware if TimmyJimmy did get any stick for his posts in the past, I certainly haven't. As for Philip well he can stick for himself and deserves most if not all of what he gets given he's changed positions more times than an exponent of the Karma Sutra.

Finally wanted to say to Timmy that it's a shame if you decide to stop posting for what you consider the abuse you've been given. I can certainly say that my annoyance and i'm sure a few others was the manner of your post and not the content. The fact you follow it up by suggesting people are annoyed only cos they aren't in some magic circle just makes it worse and I can only hope if ther ever comes a time when a protest group becomes active you aren't a spokesperson, or responsible for recruiting members.

[jim mk2]

most improtantly they have money to burn.

No they don't. They show every signs of being prudent owners, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

[BuckyRover]

1. Why should he SG? He said he was not posting again.

2. If he did he'd get more abuse and likely betray others.

Can't be *****

[RevidgeBlue]

After Sam left, JW's position is not in doubt according to Mrs D.

Can you trust anything these people say?

No, some of you won't see the train until Rovers have been driven into it.

JW RESIGNED and according to one of the LT reports AGREED what would no doubt have been a very handsome compensation package prior to the Spurs game.

What part of that do you find hard to understand?

[RevidgeBlue]

Quite sad to see John leaving in many ways, an approachable chap who after fourteen years nearly feels like part of the furniture and after that length of time it's only natural that we feel safe and comfortable with him in charge.

However this news has brought the predictable over-reaction from the usual anti Venky's posters. John had to leave sometime, do people still want him in charge into his 80's like Doug Ellis for example? And in many ways I'd have been a lot more surprised and worried if new owners had come in and NOT wanted to change a thing.

For the poster who thought John's successor was John Howarth, I'm pretty sure it was Blackburn Solicitor Terry Ibbotson. And with all due respect to John I'd take Terry Ibbotson every day of the week. And in answer to those who seem to think that there's no-one else capable of stepping into John's shoes, I recall him cheerfully admitting to an acquaintance shortly after his appointment from Granada TV that you could fit what he knew about football onto the back of a postage stamp. And John still managed to grow into the role and do a sterling job.

So thanks for all the years of service John, enjoy your severance package and retirement or whatever you choose to do next.

[philipl]

Marple Leaf's comments.

[chris]

No they don't. They show every signs of being prudent owners, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

not to put a downer on JW and JW

but allowing Hodgson to sign Dailly 5.4 million, Davies 7.25 million, Perez 3 million, Blake 4.5 million (after failing to get Dublin), then Kidd to buy Ward 4.5 million, McAteer 4 million, Carsley 4.5 million

all in ONE year

Venkys can't do much worse

If they put a 21 million package together for a world player of the year (twice) then I'll consider the possibility they have money.

[JoeBlueWhite]

Sad to see him go. Will never be forgotten for what he put in and achieved with this club.

He is a classy guy and I'm sure he would be absolutely disgusted that some people are using this to further their own personal agendas here. They should be ashamed.

[imy9]

There are a few posters who are like the driver of this

- what train?

Has there been a fitting tribute from Venky's to JW?

Is it significant that Steve Kean is saying he had a closer relationship with JW when he was the club coach?

What happened to the statements about keeping the existing management made on 26 November?

After Sam left, JW's position is not in doubt according to Mrs D.

Can you trust anything these people say?

No, some of you won't see the train until Rovers have been driven into it.

A fitting tribute? Tom Finn and Steve Kean both employees of the club have come out with great statements in support of the work that John did, they also gave him a handsome pay off- even though he was not fired.

Kean goes directly to the owners, this is new, however I wonder who Ancelloti speaks to when he wants a player, Bruce Buck (did anyone know that he is the Chairman of Chelsea) or Abramovic.

JW resigned, so the statements by Venkys dont count.

With all due respect you said that 5 players were going to hand in transfer requests, have they? Can we trust what you say?