[Archived] John Williams Leaves

[philipl]

PaulPlunkettLT Paul Plunkett

LT met Mrs Desai at Lowry Hotel. Our interview in tomorrow. She is frank about John Williams to say the least. Grab a paper #rovers

[Exiled in Toronto]

Kean goes directly to the owners, this is new, however I wonder who Ancelloti speaks to when he wants a player, Bruce Buck (did anyone know that he is the Chairman of Chelsea) or Abramovic.

Not unreasonably, people are equating the management structure we have had in place as being normal, but in my view it wasn't. When Jack was alive, Kenny dealt with him direct, he wasn't expected to go through Rob Coar and Jack just sit in Jersey writing cheques. JW was never going to keep his old responsibilities

[Guest linganzi]

I think we ought to move on , jw was top stuff but you know, things change, he may not have fit in with the new plans so what's the point in staying ?

It seems a decent package has been agreed.

So instead of having these absurdly fickle opinions about the owners let's give it a Chance to develop, the conflict isn't good for anyone.

There is a new boss playing better stuff than in a while, debts have been cleared and new players brought in , and we have been linked to some massive players, misguided perhaps but ambitious at least.

Let's get behind the club and will perhaps see john there as a fan like us

[Kelbo]

JW RESIGNED and according to one of the LT reports AGREED what would no doubt have been a very handsome compensation package prior to the Spurs game.

What part of that do you find hard to understand?

I can tell you, he may have resigned in your eyes, his job was untenable, was unable to carry out his duties, kept in the dark and pushed into a corner, I would count that as a constructive dismissal, wouldnt you, otherwise a resignation does not include a severence package, you leave and thats it!

Very good. It's nice to know I have access to a football researcher.

If you recall, my point was that Barca weren't spending 20/30m on Fabregas for him to warm the bench. I think that point still stands.

Whats that got to do with Iniesta being a bloody forward?

[RovertheHill]

Well there you have it, I (and others) have been sitting on this for a while now and it eventually happened yesterday, almost on cue eh? As promised here is my post on the subject.

My first reaction is one of anger, not only with the Venky clan who clearly had all this in their minds since day one, but also with the numptys who, if they weren't so consistently hostile and abrasive could have helped join a ground swell of supporter opinion that could have prevented this.

Everything posted on here by people 'in the know' is actually true then it seems. It's never possible to disclose chapter and verse without compromising sources but given that we all clearly have the best interests of the club at heart why the heck do others set themselves out to be appeasers and apologists dressed up as loyalty.

Were players in open revolt and had to have their contracts 'renegotiated' to quieten things down? Were the agents encamped down at Brockhall? Were JW and others persuaded to stay on last time? etc, etc. Open your eyes, what more do people want, someone to tattoo it on their foreheads. Well 'show me the facts' Doubting Thomas here is the hole to poke your fingers in. Enjoy, you're now one of the 'in crowd'. Thanks for all the support.

The club that was once BRFC is now no more, pure and simple. The name survives but there are no standard bearers to carry forward what that name stands for. 'Family' has gone out of the window. It's now just a distant arm of some multinational that just happens to be situated in Blackburn (for the time being).

A number of us have been working b*lls out behind the scenes for a while now to try and rescue the situation and on one occasion we actually thought we were very very close but alas we now come to this. There's no rescuing this particular situation, the fat lady has sung.

As long as the positive results continue on the field then certain 'supporters' who care about nothing more than points will stay happy, when/if things start to go wrong they'll jump ship in their droves. For those that felt part of the soul of this club irrespective of points or position, well sorry guys and gals that club is now long gone IMO.

It's a sad and bitter day. The only person who truly knew what Jack wanted has now been heaved out of the window. I wonder who'll get the job?

Thanks John for all your work over the years. You made a difference and you will be missed.

I try not to personalise things but this and your follow-up self-pitying post really, really take the biscuit. The reason you and others get flak is that you were massively pro-Syed when his bid was on the table, riding roughshod over the opinions of any on here who were concerned about him and his motives and what a takeover would mean. You were playing fantasy effing football with the untold billions (untold because they didn't exist probably) with not a care in the world. Now, because somebody else actually came up with the money to buy the club who wasn't your choice, you have the brass neck to blame everybody else for not listening to your insider knowledge. For those of us who have been worried about ANY takeover you cannot begin to understand how annoying it is to be lectured for just trying to make the best of things. Unbelievable.

Back to the subject matter. John Williams has done a brilliant job for this club. The finest chairman we could have hoped for. However, as soon as the Trust decided to sell this moment was coming - something JW himself acknowledged several times. Venky's, Syed, Shah, whoever - it would have happened sooner or later.

[DE.]

Quite sad to see John leaving in many ways, an approachable chap who after fourteen years nearly feels like part of the furniture and after that length of time it's only natural that we feel safe and comfortable with him in charge.

However this news has brought the predictable over-reaction from the usual anti Venky's posters. John had to leave sometime, do people still want him in charge into his 80's like Doug Ellis for example? And in many ways I'd have been a lot more surprised and worried if new owners had come in and NOT wanted to change a thing.

For the poster who thought John's successor was John Howarth, I'm pretty sure it was Blackburn Solicitor Terry Ibbotson. And with all due respect to John I'd take Terry Ibbotson every day of the week. And in answer to those who seem to think that there's no-one else capable of stepping into John's shoes, I recall him cheerfully admitting to an acquaintance shortly after his appointment from Granada TV that you could fit what he knew about football onto the back of a postage stamp. And John still managed to grow into the role and do a sterling job.

So thanks for all the years of service John, enjoy your severance package and retirement or whatever you choose to do next.

Good post.

[m1st]

As someone who never met John Williams, I was always impressed by the genuine affection that he appeared to have for the club. In the last few years in particular, the club seemed to be in safe hands and, writing as one who had no ambition for the club other than it should remain in the Premier League, I was glad about that.

I guess it was almost certainly inevitable that, once the takeover had gone through, it wouldn't be long before he would move on, notwithstading the respect by which he was held in many in the game. I'm glad for the bloke that a satisfactory severance package has been sorted out and that he will know the affection and respect in which he was held by fans. I can't be at tomorrow's match but I'll be mentally [and silently!] singing along with the fans.

[Manchester Blue]

not to put a downer on JW and JW

but allowing Hodgson to sign Dailly 5.4 million, Davies 7.25 million, Perez 3 million, Blake 4.5 million (after failing to get Dublin), then Kidd to buy Ward 4.5 million, McAteer 4 million, Carsley 4.5 million

all in ONE year

Venkys can't do much worse

If they put a 21 million package together for a world player of the year (twice) then I'll consider the possibility they have money.

Think some of the JW knocking is getting daft now. I'm no insider but i'd say he'd have had little or no say on allowing Roy and Kidd to spend whatever they wanted. I'd have thought a certain Jack Walker might have had the say on those. Let's not be silly here, regardless of any mistakes he made, and yes i'm sure he made some, overall he's been outstanding for the club and will be a huge act to follow.

[BuckyRover]

I can tell you, he may have resigned in your eyes, his job was untenable, was unable to carry out his duties, kept in the dark and pushed into a corner, I would count that as a constructive dismissal, wouldnt you, otherwise a resignation does not include a severence package, you leave and thats it!

Whats that got to do with Iniesta being a bloody forward?

I'll leave you to work it out. Im sure you can manage it.

(I'll give you a clue though, I didn't say Iniesta was a wing forward, just that he COULD play in that position)

[RevidgeBlue]

Not unreasonably, people are equating the management structure we have had in place as being normal, but in my view it wasn't. When Jack was alive, Kenny dealt with him direct, he wasn't expected to go through Rob Coar and Jack just sit in Jersey writing cheques. JW was never going to keep his old responsibilities

It's a good point. Imo it was a very unnaturel situation after Jack's death although that of course couldn't be helped.

We effectively had a Board and Chairman that might have had the best interests of the Club at heart but who had no real power. Sure they were allowed to deal with the day to day running of the Club within the budget stipulated by the previous owners but if for example the owners said players x,y and z had to be sold, or x m quid needed to be shaved off the wage budget, or the owners said we couldn't go after a certain player the manager wanted, then that had to be the way it was.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I can tell you, he may have resigned in your eyes, his job was untenable, was unable to carry out his duties, kept in the dark and pushed into a corner, I would count that as a constructive dismissal, wouldnt you, otherwise a resignation does not include a severence package, you leave and thats it!

I think you are mixing up the person and the role. His role quite clearly became hugely diminished because it didn't fit with a new hands-on ownership structure. That happens all the time in takeovers and the poor sod who happens to be in the seat at the time gets a package, as happened to loads of my friends in the Cadbury/Kraft takeover. Constructive dismissal is something entirely different where the employer makes radical changes with the sole purpose of forcing a person to resign.

[chaddyrovers]

Who will replace JW as chairman?

could Tom Finn take over as chairman with Jerome Anderson becoming director of football?

Let JA deal with signing players, player contracts, and other football side of the business

And lets TF deal with the marketing, sponsorship and other business side of running of the club.

[tony gale's mic]

but I don't think they are that bad really and most improtantly they have money to burn.

This sums up what's wrong with the attitude of some of the posters on here.

I'm not happy about the removal of JW (and despite what some posters would say, a compensation package DOES mean he was removed from his post) and so far I've been less than enthused about the antics of Venky's. However I'm more than willing to see how things pan out before coming to a final conclusion.

But fans who just see the $$$ signs and forget all the principles which made our club what it is need to get a reality check. Especially when the money they're splashing around isn't really that much in the context of the league. The Trust might have financially neglected our club but at least they didn't interfere too much either.

[RevidgeBlue]

Think some of the JW knocking is getting daft now. I'm no insider but i'd say he'd have had little or no say on allowing Roy and Kidd to spend whatever they wanted. I'd have thought a certain Jack Walker might have had the say on those. Let's not be silly here, regardless of any mistakes he made, and yes i'm sure he made some, overall he's been outstanding for the club and will be a huge act to follow.

You can't really knock JW either for large amounts spent on flops under previous managers or silly contract extensions given to consistently underpeforming players like MGP.

The manager should by and large be given free reign who he can and can't sign.

And the ever spiralling surge of improved contracts handed out to players already on the books was imo a necessary by product of the Trustees refusal to shell out transfer fees to replace them.

[Kelbo]

I'll leave you to work it out. Im sure you can manage it.

(I'll give you a clue though, I didn't say Iniesta was a wing forward, just that he COULD play in that position)

I certainly can Bucky, and with a greater knowledge and CV than you will ever emulate, and not just in football

And David Dunn COULD play as a main striker!! get the point?

[BuckyRover]

I certainly can Bucky, and with a greater knowledge and CV than you will ever emulate, and not just in football

Good for you.

I don't know how you know my credentials but good on you anyway.

So that's TimmyJimmy with his property portfolio and supercars and Kelbo who is just generally better than me.

Anyone else like to claim they are better than an anonymous pseudonym on a messageboard?

[Kelbo]

Good for you.

I don't know how you know my credentials but good on you anyway.

The Iniesta comment did it!!

[mrsjansen]

I wish id have come on here last night, i posted something on facebook and got lynched by some so called rovers fans who said this was a disaster, we were going to rack and ruin, how very dare venkys sack JW, just who do they think they are?

Im glad this site is a bit more reasonable.

[Exiled in Toronto]

and despite what some posters would say, a compensation package DOES mean he was removed from his post

Not so. They are also used either to resolve mutually untenable situations or to engineer win-wins e.g. I want to leave but I'm not resigning and missing out on a package together with the employer needing to save money, streamline a structure or whatever. Both I and my employer benefitted from the latter arrangement.

In this case I would say it was the former: JW ticked off because he'd lost his power and Venky's who didn't want him around the place

[RevidgeBlue]

I'm not happy about the removal of JW (and despite what some posters would say, a compensation package DOES mean he was removed from his post)

Hypothetically if it was the case JW indicated to Venky's after Sam went that he would be prepared to step aside providing his contract was paid up in full, but he would guide us through the transfer window first - and they accepted the proposition - I'm not sure how that equates to him being forcibly removed.

[BuckyRover]

I wish id have come on here last night, i posted something on facebook and got lynched by some so called rovers fans who said this was a disaster, we were going to rack and ruin, how very dare venkys sack JW, just who do they think they are?

Im glad this site is a bit more reasonable.

Only just

[Exiled in Toronto]

CrazyIvan, you are certainly not a troll, in fact I like your many contributions to this board and it is out of respect for that that I will respond. I don't normally see it as any part of my existence to apologise for or even to defend personal opinions that others don't agree with. However, here we go - there has been a surge of postings on here since the Venky takeover from people whose opinions I find childish and abusive. They specialise in not attacking the idea but by attacking the person posting it. I understand the term for that person on a message board is troll. It is in this context alone that I used the word.

From the beginning people on here have been privy to information regarding the bidding process and the eventual takeover. Simple as that, nothing more. With that information in their heads they contribute posts on a supporters board (by definition supposedly a collection of like minded interested people) to offer caution to counter certain impressions which they know to be incomplete or false. They cannot come straight out with it of course or someone could lose their job (oops there's a couple of coincidences).

The people I labelled as trolls were never interested in the information they were simply resentful that they weren't part of some perceived 'inner circle clique' that were privy to it and they decided to launch a sustained attack on the poster/s. Not once but over and over. If you want to check it out just one example try the postings of BuckyRover on Philipl (many other examples of course). Seems like ridicule to me.

The upshot is that at some point the poster feels forced into trying to explain why and how they know stuff, not the stuff itself. Well quite frankly they can mind their own business. How many journos reveal their sources? I and others cannot help 'knowing' stuff and I'm fed up with being goaded into justifying my existence on the board, just because I have information and they feel shut out because they haven't.

I always have the option to stay quiet and keep it to myself I suppose but this is a message board of fellow fans after all. If the trolls don't want to read it then that's what the ignore button is for. They should not IMO make up a rule for everyone else ie they don't want to believe stuff so they will ridicule a poster to shut him/her up and demand facts.

For my part I am returning to just being a reader of this board, I've clearly nothing to contribute that's worth taking on trust (oh by the way it seems OK to post 'rumours' but posts that require 'trust' are somehow seen as different and get flamed).

BuckyRover and his pals have won, it's just not worth the effort.

In closing why on earth do they think I or anyone else would get anything from appearing to be a know it all star on a web site? We only post stuff apparently because we want the approbation of fellow supporters yet we don't know each other so how does that work?

I have been close to the bidding process throughout, I know who all the actors were, their agendas and their funds and that's all I'll say on the subject of my knowledge base. BuckyRovers goaded and challenged me earlier into stating what I do for a living that gives me the right to post opinions/knowledge? Get real and who cares anyway, is my opinion only relevant because I have the biggest d!ck on the block. I won't be posting again on anything Venky related so I have nothing to gain from saying this but I will, my information is worth listening to because I'm connected and successful. I have made a lot of money out of my business dealings, I have houses all around the world, I drive supercars, in short I have all this because PEOPLE TRUST ME AND MY OPINIONS. Now, all together - "who cares" - and I totally agree, It's irrelevant BuckyRover, I'm a fan with a bit of inside track knowledge - end of.

Explanation and defence over. Troll I said and troll I meant.

I'll try not to let the door hit my a*se on the way out, to preempt a few responses.

For what its worth it is my 'opinion' that JW was treated terribly, it is my 'opinion' that Sam was treated terribly, it is my 'opinion' that agents have no part in the running of the game and it is my 'opinion' that matters could have been handled more professionally.

For someone so massively superior in every respect, I'm surprised you didn't realise that who you are and what you do counts for nothing on an internet messageboard. Better off sticking to the world of boardrooms where the size of one's knob really does mean something.

[BuckyRover]

For someone so massively superior in every respect, I'm surprised you didn't realise that who you are and what you do counts for nothing on an internet messageboard. Better off sticking to the world of boardrooms where the size of one's knob really does mean something.

I think Timmy's post is Hall of Fame material

I certainly didn't take his posts seriously before but now....

[sparkspakespoke]

Good for you.

I don't know how you know my credentials but good on you anyway.

So that's TimmyJimmy with his property portfolio and supercars and Kelbo who is just generally better than me.

Anyone else like to claim they are better than an anonymous pseudonym on a messageboard?

I am better, stronger and faster than you ever have been or ever will be.

[Glenn]

PaulPlunkettLT Paul Plunkett

LT met Mrs Desai at Lowry Hotel. Our interview in tomorrow. She is frank about John Williams to say the least. Grab a paper #rovers

He's obviously luckier that Kamy who after being promised an interview for BRFCS I'm told spent the day chasing around Lancashire only for Mrs Desai to never be where they'd arranged.