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[thenodrog]

Extremely poor today, the first time since Kean took over that I feel the need to question his team/tactics.

Must do better Mr Kean.

Critical posts a plenty for Mr Kean today! And this ones from his press officer!!!

I like the guy but there's no 2 ways about it, Salgado MUST be dropped he's a liability and its clear his confidence is in tatters. It summed it up for me when he had about a year to calmly play a pass back to Robbo and he flapped and played it to his left, surely even a blind man could see Robbo is a right footer.

Salgado is a fine player. He's vulnerable to pace but as long as he's covered by his team mates he's fine. Today he was alone on the right for the first hour. He was left facing two men all first half.... and worse it was right under the bus driver's nose.

[cruz]

Santa Cruz cost us 2 points. A £17m striker should not miss free headers like that from 3 yards.

The players need to take the blame for ANOTHER shocking performance. Once they cross that line the buck stops with them.

[Bobby G]

The players? Its obvious they are the same players who've won games all season long. Yesterday you couldnt blame them for being headless chickens with no sense of direction as its someone else's responsibility to instill that.

And about Roque costing us 2 points. Yes it was a bad miss, but if we scored and they scored 5, we couldnt complain about it.

[Kelbo]

Santa Cruz cost us 2 points. A £17m striker should not miss free headers like that from 3 yards.

The players need to take the blame for ANOTHER shocking performance. Once they cross that line the buck stops with them.

To a degree you are correct but the shape of the team was awful and the shape and tactics are deployed by the manager, if they are not working you change them, yesterday we were awful, I looked at various stages of the game and we were in no position to attack or defend through our midfield, this has to be rectified quickly and Salgado is playing with no one in front of him, hence their full back was able to bomb on where with a 4-4-2 system he would have been closed down!

[thenodrog]

I was all for giving kean a chance

That performance had Brian Kidd and rubber dinghy men written all over it.

The big question is will Venkys have the bottle to admit they have made a mistake with Kean and replace him.

On what basis WWWM? Did you have a dream that he'd be OK? Do you think having a bald head helps? Short man syndrome maybe? What was it? There was absolutely no reason, sense nor logic in giving Kean a chance at Prem management. Rem no one had even heard of him 3 months ago.

Lets just hope that when the time comes to replace Kean they don't come to you for advice eh? Same goes for quite a few on here too.

[thenodrog]

Wayne Bridge would have been a good signing but god knows what he earns.

Bridge has never been any good. He's been massively over rated all his career.

[thenodrog]

Was it really only three months ago that we were coming away from St. James' Park celebrating victory? I thought today's excuse for a performance was dreadful. Totally lacking in ideas in every department and for that the manager and his assistant must take the blame. Joey Barton, not a player I admire, simply ran the show today in midfield. Kean has been in charge for twelve games now, including the two cup-ties, and our midfield still looks totally inept. Indeed, there were times today when the players seemed to be as bemused as the fans as to what was going on. Why was Jones on the right wing? Why was Roque having to drop back to the right wing because Jones kept wandering inside? Why were both full backs given no cover? The questions are endless.

Michel Salgado has been outstanding this season and yet, in a few short weeks, the manager's tactics have left Salgado so exposed that he looks to have aged before our very eyes. A seasoned pro, a European Cup Winner, an international of some repute, has been destroyed by a tactical system that has left him and virtually every other defender totally exposed time after time. Chris Samba continues to struggle for form and, once again, another mistake today could have been quite costly.

In midfield I thought Jones was nothing more than average, Nzonzi, a player I really like, was very poor and Dunny really is struggling to find a role in this new system.

Roque, although still a class act, is simply not going to stay fit enough to score the goals we need and if Roberts and Kalinic are the answer, we're obviously asking the wrong questions.

On the evidence of today I can't say that I will travel to Villa or Fulham with any confidence of getting a result. Defeats in those games will put a huge amount of pressure on the team to beat Blackpool. Suddenly, that 40 point mark looks an awful long way away. We need to get back to doing what Sam did - win the home games and win the games that need to be won.

Exactly right. Best post on here by a mile.

[Roversider]

Bit disappointing all round yesterday, however I would give Newcastle some credit in that, plus the whimsical refereeing of Mr. Atwell.

Before the game I was convinced that the key area would be midfield and unfortunately that proved to be the case, Tiotte and Barton plus Nolan made a difference and Newcastle also had genuine width. We were limited for long spells to trying to move through the congested central areas and after Hoillet diasppeared at half-time we didn't make any inroads against Simpson who was a weak link in their back four. Sorry to say this (because he is one of my favourite Rovers players over the years) but if David Dunn cannot play more than 60 minutes a game he really needs to have more facets to his play. When he is on the ball he is a delight to watch but when he has to defend or track the oppositions midfield, well he is a liability I'm afraid. I had hoped to see Jones and N'zonzi playing just in front of the back four but Jones took up the right side of a diamond so whilst he got forward better than usual he still spent more time infield than gripping the line. That also exposed Salgado and his one flaw, pace.

So next time out I would prefer to see Pederson start in midfield rather than Dunn, more energy, greater defensive work, better header and long throws. Okay, less trickery but I'm sorry, Dunn is rapidly becoming a 'luxury' player, when we can keep him on the ball in the last third we don't have a better player but when we can't .......

The good news is we didn't get beaten and we kept a clean sheet, N'Zonzi looked better and Robinson remains consistent. We do need Givet back as Olsson is much better as a wide left-sided midfielder than a full-back.

[thenodrog]

Saw Roque after the match. Said he'd only started full training on Friday so Manager didn't want to risk him for the full match.

We were playing one of our home banker fixtures. It appears Hoillett got an injury just before HT but we all know Dunny has no more than 65 mins in him so effectively by using 2 up at HT we played 30 mins with no substitute. What sort of crazy (suicidal even)management is that?

[thenodrog]

This was the average position of our team yesterday.

Kean will probably think the formation wasn't broke against Newcastle because we kept a "clean sheet" so why fix it

Great picture. Backs up what I was watching for fully 65 mins yesterday. Look at that space on the right wing and look at how isolated Salgado was and yet some clowns have been on here criticising him.

[thenodrog]

Santa Cruz cost us 2 points. A £17m striker should not miss free headers like that from 3 yards.

The players need to take the blame for ANOTHER shocking performance. Once they cross that line the buck stops with them.

Rubbish. Who told em where to play and in what formation?

[grizfoot]

Great picture. Backs up what I was watching for fully 65 mins yesterday. Look at that space on the right wing and look at how isolated Salgado was (the nearest players to him 7 and 9 were 2nd half subs ffs!!!) and yet some clowns have been on here criticising him.

Very true, but he still got beat one-on-one of numerous occassions. Remember a time in the second half when he lost a challenge on the halfway line and there was so much space down that flank it was untrue. Of course he would have helped with a little more cover but I think the Newcastle left-side had him beaten anyway to be fair. Jose Enrique one of Newcastle's best players was left unmarked so many times it was embarrassing.

The pitch map above pretty much sums up what I thought Nzonzi & Jones looked at times to be two players trying to play in one position, got in each others way due to lack of communication on numerous occassions. There was absolute no width to our play which was most bizzarre, they had Danny SImpson at full-back for god's sake! but bar a few poor Olsson crosses in the first half we rarely threatened down our left-side and as already mentioned we where totally non-existant down the right flank.

[thenodrog]

Very true, but he still got beat one-on-one of numerous occassions. Remember a time in the second half when he lost a challenge on the halfway line and there was so much space down that flank it was untrue. Of course he would have helped with a little more cover but I think the Newcastle left-side had him beaten anyway to be fair. Jose Enrique one of Newcastle's best players was left unmarked so many times it was embarrassing. .

Exactly. So any manager worth his salt would have taken steps to nullify that threat and provide support for the full back, especially one who although an excellent defender is vulnerable to pace. Leaving someone isolated is crass stupidity.

[RIML]

Great picture. Backs up what I was watching for fully 65 mins yesterday. Look at that space on the right wing and look at how isolated Salgado was (the nearest players to him 7 and 9 were 2nd half subs ffs!!!) and yet some clowns have been on here criticising him.

Kalinic started but I know what you mean.

I think Hoilett on the right and Pedersen on the left would have been better. I don't care what anyone says about Pedersen being too slow on the wing, I'm sure it would have worked better if he'd started there. I also don't see the point in having two 'number 9' strikers on, Mame Diouf is not the best finisher but works really hard and could play a decent role just behind Santa Cruz/Kalinic. If there's an issue with Mame Diouf and United etc then Dunn can play that role, it seems he played that role yesterday anyway. Kean may prove me wrong but to me the balance of the team is all wrong. He can stick the diamond formation up his ar$e

[Stuart]

This was the average position of our team yesterday.

Kean will probably think the formation wasn't broke against Newcastle because we kept a "clean sheet" so why fix it

Great picture. Backs up what I was watching for fully 65 mins yesterday. Look at that space on the right wing and look at how isolated Salgado was and yet some clowns have been on here criticising him.

I think it's a bobbins picture. (No offence to RIML).

What the hell is an average position, anyway? Doesn't mean that is the only place they stood and by the same token suggests that's where Newcastle's average positions were - and in theory the ball. RIML, where is that picture from? Can you show the Newcastle version?

They dominated the game because they bossed the central midfield and not simply down to Salgado being exposed. I remember thinking during the game that if we had the experience and presence of a Nolan and/or Barton in our midfield we'd be on to a winner.

[Roversider]

I wonder how mush of the diamond formation choice was down to playing two up front and also accomodating Dunn? It left us unbalanced and not able to get the ball up with control. Also Kalinic and Santa Cruz run the same sort of channels, my view is choose a pairing and stick with it and try to establish a partnership.

I prefer 4-4-2 but Dunn hasn't got the legs to do that, if he is to play you need 4-5-1 and drop back to one out and out striker.

[RIML]

I think it's a bobbins picture. (No offence to RIML).

What the hell is an average position, anyway? Doesn't mean that is the only place they stood and by the same token suggests that's where Newcastle's average positions were - and in theory the ball. RIML, where is that picture from? Can you show the Newcastle version?

They dominated the game because they bossed the central midfield and not simply down to Salgado being exposed. I remember thinking during the game that if we had the experience and presence of a Nolan and/or Barton in our midfield we'd be on to a winner.

ESPN

No surprises Enrique's average position was in our half.

[Fife Rover]

Bit disappointing all round yesterday, however I would give Newcastle some credit in that, plus the whimsical refereeing of Mr. Atwell.

Before the game I was convinced that the key area would be midfield and unfortunately that proved to be the case, Tiotte and Barton plus Nolan made a difference and Newcastle also had genuine width. We were limited for long spells to trying to move through the congested central areas and after Hoillet diasppeared at half-time we didn't make any inroads against Simpson who was a weak link in their back four. Sorry to say this (because he is one of my favourite Rovers players over the years) but if David Dunn cannot play more than 60 minutes a game he really needs to have more facets to his play. When he is on the ball he is a delight to watch but when he has to defend or track the oppositions midfield, well he is a liability I'm afraid. I had hoped to see Jones and N'zonzi playing just in front of the back four but Jones took up the right side of a diamond so whilst he got forward better than usual he still spent more time infield than gripping the line. That also exposed Salgado and his one flaw, pace.

So next time out I would prefer to see Pederson start in midfield rather than Dunn, more energy, greater defensive work, better header and long throws. Okay, less trickery but I'm sorry, Dunn is rapidly becoming a 'luxury' player, when we can keep him on the ball in the last third we don't have a better player but when we can't .......

The good news is we didn't get beaten and we kept a clean sheet, N'Zonzi looked better and Robinson remains consistent. We do need Givet back as Olsson is much better as a wide left-sided midfielder than a full-back.

What David Dunn NEEDS to do is start respecting his own body and stay out of the night clubs and give up on the pies. I can only think of two examples in my 64 years as an active football supporter that have done more than Dunn to throw their football careers down the drain (literally). Those two being George Best and Gazza.

[PAFELL]

The players? Its obvious they are the same players who've won games all season long. Yesterday you couldnt blame them for being headless chickens with no sense of direction as its someone else's responsibility to instill that.

And about Roque costing us 2 points. Yes it was a bad miss, but if we scored and they scored 5, we couldnt complain about it.

The players do have to play apart. If they think things are not going right on the pitch they should have the skill to put it right. After all they are paid enough.

[Stuart]

ESPN

No surprises Enrique's average position was in our half.

Cheers. Without doing an overlay of the two pictures, I'd say that looks pretty close to our "average positions". As I expected really.

[Veevs]

Saw Roque after the match. Said he'd only started full training on Friday so Manager didn't want to risk him for the full match.

Another interesting Kean tactic, should of played second half or at least planned for not having two strikers for the whole match.. these last two games have really put me off him as a manager.

This was the average position of our team yesterday.

Kean will probably think the formation wasn't broke against Newcastle because we kept a "clean sheet" so why fix it

Blimey I knew Salgado was scary but even his team mates seem to of left him in that pic.. madness given Newcastles renown left flank.

I know what is worth a look.. check out the guardian chalk board.. Here.. then look at Mr Nzonzi and his successful passes, most of the stats are pretty useless as you dont get to see positioning for example pressure on the opposing player.. But hey Nzonzi has a stat in that game that scares me.. 43 passes.. of which 18 went astray and olsson was even worse.

Some interesting ones from the game in there.. check out Roberts overall contribution (6 passes, 1 successful tackle, 0 interceptions, 0 shots and conceded 2 free kicks) lol

Jnr apparently was on the left according too your pic and the guardian stats.. wth.. so was Dunn..

Also overall stats show us playing down the left flank.. utter stupidity..

I wonder how mush of the diamond formation choice was down to playing two up front and also accomodating Dunn? It left us unbalanced and not able to get the ball up with control. Also Kalinic and Santa Cruz run the same sort of channels, my view is choose a pairing and stick with it and try to establish a partnership.

I prefer 4-4-2 but Dunn hasn't got the legs to do that, if he is to play you need 4-5-1 and drop back to one out and out striker.

I really do hope we are not trying too accomodate Dunn.. he just does not have the legs.. we should not of started with him.

[broadsword]

Cheers. Without doing an overlay of the two pictures, I'd say that looks pretty close to our "average positions". As I expected really.

But weren't Newcastle's attacks going mainly down our right?

"Average" positions don't tell you much anyway, a player might not be in his "average" position very much at all if he covers a lot of ground.

[RIML]

Cheers. Without doing an overlay of the two pictures, I'd say that looks pretty close to our "average positions". As I expected really.

Their forwards were more near to the box and our forwards were near to the half way line. It seems they had an extra player in our half too (not including subs) Also our fullbacks' average position was in our half, I guess this means they didn't get past the half way line that often but Enrique had pretty much the freedom of the left wing.

[RIML]

Jnr apparently was on the left according too your pic and the guardian stats.. wth.. so was Dunn..

ESPN have this as our starting 11. I honestly don't know what the formation was, all I know is it didn't work. 41212? Sky Sports have 442 also with Junior on the right, he played on the left from what I saw.

[Steve Moss]

What David Dunn NEEDS to do is start respecting his own body and stay out of the night clubs and give up on the pies. I can only think of two examples in my 64 years as an active football supporter that have done more than Dunn to throw their football careers down the drain (literally). Those two being George Best and Gazza.

Kean should take a page out of WHam's book in regards to Benni. Set weight and fitness targets for Dunn and, if he fails to make them, impose excessively large fines.