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[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Observations :-

1. Diamond formation won't work with a four man midfield - it just leaves us too narrow and the full backs exposed. We have seen it in two consecutive matches were Salgado has been left exposed - and yet it took until mid-way in the second half for us to revert to a flat four in midfield.

2. Midfield was out fought - but this was largely down to one of the most inept refereeing displays for a long time. I have long advocated that referee's aren't bias - but this one may be an exception. Newcastle's no 24 should have been booked in the first few minutes - but his escape obviously led him to believe that he could batter our "flair" players at will and get away with it - which he did.

3. After watching Nolan and Barton snarl at referee's, players - well anyone that disagree'd with how they fought (deliberate mis-spelling) the match should be run - I can only say what a lovely couple of gentlemen they appear to be.

4. A very poor match - but only as poor as some of the dross served up under the previous manager (for all those calling for Sam to be reinstated

5. Kean is trying to change the playing style - and as a result there will be a period of dis-organisation. However, I think he trying to change too much too soon - and without necessarily the right types of player to play his chosen formation. He needs to revert to a flat four in midfield - or at least a 4-3-1-2 formation.

6. Players performances :-

Jones - obviously a box-2-box midfield player on yesterdays showing. Playing central in a four man midfield he could really sparkle.

Salgado - did well considering how exposed he was by the tactics.

Olsson - crossing needs to improve - but his pace is an obvious outlet. When Givet is back - and Olsson is pushed into left wing we may again see the best of him.

Pedersen - made a difference when came on - and it showed what good defensive work he does for the team. As somebody else remarked - may be better sacrificing some flair by dropping Dunn to accomodate MGP.

Robinson - too good for England.

Santa Cruz - not fit

Kalanic - seemed really up for it - but seemed intent on running into space already taken by a player. Confusing after playing for Croatia midweek - or confusing tactics - only time will tell.

Hoillett - at the moment on fire - match died when he went off at half time. We need to play him just behind the front two or one - so he can do real damage without worrying about defensive duties too much.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Lets just hope that when the time comes to replace Kean they don't come to you for advice eh? Same goes for quite a few on here too.

You really are a condescending ### at times.

I gave him a chance because whether I liked it or not he had been appointed manager of my club. As well you know Theno nobody expected or recommended kean for manager save our friend at kentaro.

It seems to be a poor decision. We all agreed it was the wrong time to sack sam but you can not

Knock the manager from day one. Christ I gave Andrews a few games before deciding he was cack.

[Majiball]

I don't know if anyone has raised this point but why did we start RSC? Surely if he's only able to manage a half then it's better to play him in the 2nd half against more fatigued opposition.

The extra man in the middle used to mean that Salgado could play his way with added cover. We are now basically man for man in the middle leavings loads of space to attack in behind Salgado that any winger loves to see as it means I (the winger) have the upper hand for sure.

Parsonblue, quite simply he's gone in and changed too much. He would have been much better off sticking with the 5 across midfield and making that stronger by adding in Jones. That way when we don't have the ball it's pretty much as you where lads, then started to build the style of pass N move within that. Defending was never our issue just that at times we gave the ball away cheaply when we should have tried to retain it and build our play up.

Instead he's changed everything and consequently it's information overload from both aspects imparting and receiving. It's just too much to teach/learn in what at most even with double sessions is 15 hours or so a week. Even with video work on top and the such its all just too much as they are also preparing for matches as well. Players playing out of position as well on top eg Dunn.

I would add in at this point that obviously a lot of thinking went into this.

The bonus is we now have a prolonged period of 6 weeks with 3 matches (mental) so we have in effect a mini pre-season and can focus in the main on how we play. Hopefully we can get some cohesion back into team although I have to say we need the extra man in the middle back, pronto.

[Fife Rover]

I don't know if anyone has raised this point but why did we start RSC? Surely if he's only able to manage a half then it's better to play him in the 2nd half against more fatigued opposition.

The extra man in the middle used to mean that Salgado could play his way with added cover. We are now basically man for man in the middle leavings loads of space to attack in behind Salgado that any winger loves to see as it means I (the winger) have the upper hand for sure.

Parsonblue, quite simply he's gone in and changed too much. He would have been much better off sticking with the 5 across midfield and making that stronger by adding in Jones. That way when we don't have the ball it's pretty much as you where lads, then started to build the style of pass N move within that. Defending was never our issue just that at times we gave the ball away cheaply when we should have tried to retain it and build our play up.

Instead he's changed everything and consequently it's information overload from both aspects imparting and receiving. It's just too much to teach/learn in what at most even with double sessions is 15 hours or so a week. Even with video work on top and the such its all just too much as they are also preparing for matches as well. Players playing out of position as well on top eg Dunn.

I would add in at this point that obviously a lot of thinking went into this.

The bonus is we now have a prolonged period of 6 weeks with 3 matches (mental) so we have in effect a mini pre-season and can focus in the main on how we play. Hopefully we can get some cohesion back into team although I have to say we need the extra man in the middle back, pronto.

Pretty much agree with all that too Maji. it is indeed good that we have this "mini pre-season" opportunity right now, because we most certainly need it!!

My only concern is the question "Will Kean and his staff actually see the problems in full perspective, and will they act quickly and correctly to deal with them?" I do however look at the question in the light of our very good performances (WBA, L'pool, Spurs) along with the mediocre and poor ones, and am prepared to give Kean and Co. the benefit of any doubts for now. However I see this as last chance salloon, and they really have to get it right first time or we are genuine relegarion candidates for sure.

[matt65]

Seems to be a few asking why Hoilet was taken off at half tim,just wondering if nobody else saw him pull up

just before half time rubbing the back of his leg,was limping when heading to the dressing room at half time.

[LeChuck]

Cheers. Without doing an overlay of the two pictures, I'd say that looks pretty close to our "average positions". As I expected really.

To be fair though, it quite clearly backs up what most of us saw - Salgado facing two Newcastle players down our right side. It also shows we had no width.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Oh and I am with Gordon I thought the ref stunk, funny though the commentators here thought he had a great game but then again they had only negative comments and general run us down statements anyway.

Christ blue!..even the Yank media dont like us?

[Iceman]

the so called good transfer window, well its turning into a joke. apart from Jones, the other 3 looks like wasted signings. when you consider, that Ireland, Kranckjar and even the likes of SWP and Bentley were available, players who would have went srraight into the team.

yesterday, we lacked a creative spark, we lacked a player who could put their foot on the ball and dictate play. its time Kean, plays Formica and Rochina and tries to change things around.

[McClarky]

Pretty dismal performance really, lucky to get a draw I thought. Rarely seen a home side have so few attempts on goal, I can't remember owt after the Santa header against the post. You have to have doubts about the manager when he seems to make so many personnel and positional changes from game to game, does he have a plan? Does he know who he wants to play and how he wants them to play? I suppose time will tell but I left feeling worried yesterday.

On another point, there was a huge dog turd under the seat next to me. How could that happen? I know we are "Rovers" but that is ridiculous. My brother asked a steward to come and remove it and she said it was "rust". Very strange.

[SAS]

the so called good transfer window, well its turning into a joke. apart from Jones, the other 3 looks like wasted signings. when you consider, that Ireland, Kranckjar and even the likes of SWP and Bentley were available, players who would have went srraight into the team.

yesterday, we lacked a creative spark, we lacked a player who could put their foot on the ball and dictate play. its time Kean, plays Formica and Rochina and tries to change things around.

They could turn out Like mgp , too lightweight and ineffective when he came here. 6 months later a different player after a special training programme.

Now we know the two lads are undergoing different training programmes.

Trust in the professionals.

[Kelbo]

They could turn out Like mgp , too lightweight and ineffective when he came here. 6 months later a different player after a special training programme.

Now we know the two lads are undergoing different training programmes.

Trust in the professionals.

Have we got any left in the backroom team?

[Paul]

<br />Seems to be a few asking why Hoilet was taken off at half tim,just wondering if nobody else saw him pull up<br />

just before half time rubbing the back of his leg,was limping when heading to the dressing room at half time.<br />

Yes definitely saw that, in the Newcastle half over towards the Riverside. Said to den at HT I thought he would be subbed.

[47er]

Santa Cruz cost us 2 points. A £17m striker should not miss free headers like that from 3 yards.

The players need to take the blame for ANOTHER shocking performance. Once they cross that line the buck stops with them.

You are going to be the last man standing Cruz. Its Santa's fault is it?

[John]

Kean has suggested through his comments that he will always play 2 strikers in the team.

[philipl]

Those ESPN heat maps are terrifying.

Vividly shows Salgado 1 v 2 which has wrecked his performance since Kean took over. Not only was he on his own there was NO attempt to give him any support or an easy out ball.

[bigbrandjohn]

Kean should take a page out of WHam's book in regards to Benni. Set weight and fitness targets for Dunn and, if he fails to make them, impose excessively large fines.

But not leave him out of the 25 while still paying him 40k per week

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Yes, the players made mistakes, yes, the manager made mistakes, no, it isn't the end of the world.

These games happen sometimes. We were lucky to escape with a point and we're all grateful of that, with hindsight.

I'm sure we will be fine, there is no point continually bemoaning this and that, we can't change the Newcastle result so we should be soley focused on being positive about the games coming up. A win and the pendulum of positivity will swing once again. Just stop being so morbid, we're not in the relegation zone. Yet. © Paul Ince.

[Steve Moss]

Kean has suggested through his comments that he will always play 2 strikers in the team.

Which I have no problem with, so long as they are receiving some service and actually attacking the opposition's net as opposed to meandering around the center line.

But not leave him out of the 25 while still paying him 40k per week

Exactly. Dunn has bags of talent. It's his fitness which is of concern. I don't think it too much to ask that a professional player making 40k/week be required to take care of himself or be fined.

I'm sure we will be fine, there is no point continually bemoaning this and that, we can't change the Newcastle result so we should be soley focused on being positive about the games coming up. A win and the pendulum of positivity will swing once again.

This is mostly accurate. Kean at 1.1 points/match is on the cusp of breaking into "safe" territory (1.2+ points/match). Kean is literally one win away from being in the "positive" category. The problem is he is equally likely to go the other way. Being 5 points away from both relegation and 7th fully illustrates the point.

Based on current performance he stands at the edge of a cliff. A little one way and we are safe. A little the other and we are in free fall. What reasoning went into creating this situation is beyond me, though I don't blame Kean in the slightest. Heck if someone offered me the job I would have taken in a heart beat even though I know I'm not up for it. No guts, no glory.

And in his defense, he has 2 weeks to get the team and tactics in order. In two weeks he should have a fully healthy squad, barring P. Jones who will be on the verge of making a return. Formica may be fit, or verging on fit, and whatever talents he may possess could be made available (though I think he and Rochina, and perhaps even P. Jones whom I don't even want to bring back a second too soon, are safer bets for next season).

On the flip side, I have to wonder about the psychology of the team. For example, I view professional players as overgrown boys. They have a man's body and the skills and talents of a professional, but behavior-wise they still act like they're 12. In my limited experience coaching boys (5 teams to date- so take my opinion with a grain of salt), they respond best when the coach combines the characteristics of alpha male and surrogate father. When they fall down, pick them up, dust them off, ask them if they're ok, tell them what a great job they've done and the team needs them, and send them back into the game. Always act calmly, confidently and consistently. Otherwise they turn into a pack of wild dogs. I don't get the sense that Kean is projecting the calm, confident and consistent demeanor a leader of boys/men needs in order to be a success.

Heck, it occurs to me that Jerome Anderson might be unintentionally undermining Kean if reports of Anderson taking over Sam's office and Kean being assigned a much smaller space are true. It might illustrate, subconciously anyway, that it is Anderson, not Kean, who is the alpha male in Brockhall. That can't help Kean in the locker room, if true. The same line of reasoning would hold true about contracts, transfers, etc. Appearances matter a lot. Who is the chief? If Kean's wings are clipped in the slightest, the boys in the locker room may well test him, intentionally or otherwise.

[RevidgeBlue]

Difficult to disagree with most of the comment on here but I really don't understand why in the eyes of most Salgado can't do any wrong.

I said at the time a new contract was mooted for him it was a bad idea and got generally condemned.

If you value his presence around the Club and have designs to move him into more of a coaching role then fair enough.

As a player he's past it and a complete liability. Samba is not currently in his best form but is being made to made to look worse than he is by constantly having to rush over and try and cover for Salgado when the latter gets caught out of position and the ball is played in behind him..

[thenodrog]

Those ESPN heat maps are terrifying.

Vividly shows Salgado 1 v 2 which has wrecked his performance since Kean took over. Not only was he on his own there was NO attempt to give him any support or an easy out ball.

So why on earth did Steve Kean or his boss Jerome see fit to offload EHD with such unseemly haste? Diouff on the right would have provided perfect balance to that team yesterday.

As Alex Ferguson opined publically 'Anderson can't even pick his nose'

[RevidgeBlue]

So why on earth did Steve Kean or his boss Jerome see fit to offload EHD with such unseemly haste?

|The fact he's not actually very good, and was earning a king's ransom, and we have Hoillet who can theoretically play there?

Apart from that, not much!

[thenodrog]

|The fact he's not actually very good, and was earning a king's ransom, and we have Hoillet who can theoretically play there?

Apart from that, not much!

'theoretically, Simon? On Saturday no one played there and that is not theory, that is undeniable fact. Plain and simple.

[Miker]

As a player he's past it and a complete liability. Samba is not currently in his best form but is being made to made to look worse than he is by constantly having to rush over and try and cover for Salgado when the latter gets caught out of position and the ball is played in behind him..

I think this is why so many people feel the tactics are to blame and simply aren't working because we see a chain reaction happening. Our midfield isn't defending effectively, especially on the right side of midfield, and as a result greater pressure is sustained by Salgado at RB. He has to do his own job while covering for the midfielder in front of him, if he fails, then Samba has to be dragged out and put under pressure to cover for Salgado and so on.

Personally, I believe both Salgado and Samba should be able to manage in these circumstances, but they can't do this throughout an entire game. If the opposing team get through the midfield on occasion then that's fine, but when a team is dominating the left flank as much as Newcastle did, that is a huge concern.

We seem to be missing discipline in the squad under Kean. He needs to instill greater discipline in the team from a defensive point of view. I think Arsenal's team lacks discipline as well, and it's a massive factor in their inability to win any trophies for so long.

[Kelbo]

Whoever is at right back, if you are without cover, you are caught in two minds, there will be a spare man, you have to position yourself diffently and if he gets past you, then one of the centre backs gets dragged out of position, that is why a disciplined performance and the ability to keep your shape is vitally important.

This is what happened under Ince and I remember Allardyces first game against Stoke at Ewood, it was a real disciplined performance, opening out when attacking and as soon as Stoke got possession, we quickly reacted became narrow and defended in two lines of four, offering protection to all the defence, the fans were singing, 'we've got our Rovers back!!

What I saw against Newcastle was a totally disjointed and a very undisciplined performance and that is the worry, there will be games when things dont go quite right and it doesnt matter who the manager is, it happens in football,

however, the last two performances have shown clearly that something is not right with how the team has been set up.

[thenodrog]

What I saw against Newcastle was a totally disjointed and a very undisciplined performance and that is the worry, there will be games when things dont go quite right and it doesnt matter who the manager is, it happens in football,

however, the last two performances have shown clearly that something is not right with how the team has been set up.

And an inability by the coach to recognise such and react.