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[Andy3809]

Difficult to disagree with most of the comment on here but I really don't understand why in the eyes of most Salgado can't do any wrong.

I said at the time a new contract was mooted for him it was a bad idea and got generally condemned.

If you value his presence around the Club and have designs to move him into more of a coaching role then fair enough.

As a player he's past it and a complete liability. Samba is not currently in his best form but is being made to made to look worse than he is by constantly having to rush over and try and cover for Salgado when the latter gets caught out of position and the ball is played in behind him..

Totally agree with you on this. Our tactics are not to leave Salgado exposed, however every team we come up against make it theirs. He is seen as our weak link and has been ripped apart time and time again. You can clearly see the patterns of play that have been rehearsed on the training ground by our opposition to leave him one on one with space behind him.

Emerton needs to slot back to right back for me and be first choice.

[John]

Does anyone know if the squad are planning to go away to Dubai this year?

[rovers_rob]

Does anyone know if the squad are planning to go away to Dubai this year?

Yes, the LET are reporting today that the squad have gone to Dubai.

[thenodrog]

Totally agree with you on this. Our tactics are not to leave Salgado exposed, however every team we come up against make it theirs. He is seen as our weak link and has been ripped apart time and time again. You can clearly see the patterns of play that have been rehearsed on the training ground by our opposition to leave him one on one with space behind him.

Emerton needs to slot back to right back for me and be first choice.

Don't be daft. Have you not seen that chart? http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php/topic/24191-newcastle-home/page__view__findpost__p__1027755

The way that the team was set up with NO RIGHT MIDFIELDER in sight would see Emerton get ripped to shreds just as easily as Salgado was. Nobody can defend against two players for 90 mins.

[Kelbo]

Totally agree with you on this. Our tactics are not to leave Salgado exposed, however every team we come up against make it theirs. He is seen as our weak link and has been ripped apart time and time again. You can clearly see the patterns of play that have been rehearsed on the training ground by our opposition to leave him one on one with space behind him.

Emerton needs to slot back to right back for me and be first choice.

When Rovers looked solid in Allardyces first game against Stoke, it was virtually the same side which had been leaking goals under Ince, I would argue that whoever plays at right back under the current system is really going to struggle and whatever patterns of play you work with on the training ground, would you allow the left full back to be camped in our half of the park for 90 minutes? Tell you what, remember Wayne Bridge at Southampton, he was a very good attacking full back at the time and playing so well, Souness put Neil Danns on him for the first half and pushed up on him so he couldnt attack, second half we replaced Danns and Bridge was quite dangerous.

So what did we do against Newcastle, shifted Hoilett over to the left with no one looking after right midfield, not a question of defending Salgado, the discipline or system isnt working, indeed, I mentiond against Wigan, Emerton trying to get from Left Midfield back to right midfield and help Salgado out, where was the discipline or system where one moves over to cover?

Totally agree with you on this. Our tactics are not to leave Salgado exposed, however every team we come up against make it theirs. He is seen as our weak link and has been ripped apart time and time again. You can clearly see the patterns of play that have been rehearsed on the training ground by our opposition to leave him one on one with space behind him.

Emerton needs to slot back to right back for me and be first choice.

If that is our tactic, then we should drop all the bloody midfield as he has been left exposed more in the last two games than in the whole of his career, absolutely no cover in front of him, no right midfield at all!!

[John]

Yes, the LET are reporting today that the squad have gone to Dubai.

Thanks, thought I read it somewhere.

[Neil Weaver]

So what did we do against Newcastle, shifted Hoilett over to the left with no one looking after right midfield, not a question of defending Salgado, the discipline or system isnt working, indeed, I mentiond against Wigan, Emerton trying to get from Left Midfield back to right midfield and help Salgado out, where was the discipline or system where one moves over to cover?

If that is our tactic, then we should drop all the bloody midfield as he has been left exposed more in the last two games than in the whole of his career, absolutely no cover in front of him, no right midfield at all!!

Agree entirely Kelbo, and I haven't got anything approaching your footballing tactical nouse.

Isolate Olsson, Givet, a central defender, or come to that one of the supposedly top Prem League defenders to a 2-on-1 time and time again and the defender will get ripped to shreds. Yep Salgado hasn't been brilliant recently but nothing like as bad is being made out IF he was getting protected like he should be and others are.

[Veevs]

As a player he's past it and a complete liability. Samba is not currently in his best form but is being made to made to look worse than he is by constantly having to rush over and try and cover for Salgado when the latter gets caught out of position and the ball is played in behind him..

Thats way too harsh revidge, since Givets injury our whole team has been disjointed.

Salgado is not super human he was in a 2v1 situation all of the match, utter lack of cover on the right against 2 very good left sided players for Newcastle (probably their best and third best players this season).

Either the tactics where utterly wrong (with jnr more central, and no cover from Nzonzi or JJ) or the players did not follow instructions... not sure if part of the reason was worries about Olsson at left back but whatever the reason the tactics for two games in a row have been at fault, not Salgado.

Given the obvious as well in regards too RSC not being fully fit and the knowledge Dunn does not have the legs anymore (even the manager knows this hense him being subbed allot) I thought Keans tactics to start with both should also be brought into question.. its madness imo to start with two players you know wont last the duration.

Tempted too write off prety much all games too the end of the season in which Givet is out, so I really hope that he gets back into action pretty damn quick because if it was any team bar newcastle (who dont really have a striker) then we would of been punished.

[Bobby G]

V unfair criticism of Salgado. Its not his fault that the lopsided tactics are exposing him 2 v 1 in most cases without cover. This is the same player who has consistently been among our most solid performers for the last two seasons bar one or two (rationally so) matches against Bale and Lennon for instance.

[Parsonblue]

I think this is why so many people feel the tactics are to blame and simply aren't working because we see a chain reaction happening. Our midfield isn't defending effectively, especially on the right side of midfield, and as a result greater pressure is sustained by Salgado at RB. He has to do his own job while covering for the midfielder in front of him, if he fails, then Samba has to be dragged out and put under pressure to cover for Salgado and so on.

Totally agree with you on this point. It hasn't been helped by allowing El-Hadji Diouf, one of our most consistent performers this season, out on loan to Rangers. Diouf got through an awful lot of work on the flanks helping out the defence. He was also capable of firing in the type of crosses that Roque is going to need. The only reason I can see for allowing Diouf to leave was because the manager found him difficult to handle and one might have thought that handling difficult players was part of a manager's job description.

[Jimmy612]

As a player he's past it and a complete liability. Samba is not currently in his best form but is being made to made to look worse than he is by constantly having to rush over and try and cover for Salgado when the latter gets caught out of position and the ball is played in behind him..

Salgado has been superb since he arrived. Yes it took him a little time to adjust to PL life but he had a fantastic back end of last season and an equally superb start this season.

Admittedly players like Bale and Lennon might catch him out, but there aren't many of them around, and when cover was provided he was solid and dependable.

This change of formation has left him shockingly exposed trying to mark a very good partnership of Enrique and Gutierrez. If you can name me a RB who could deal with a 2v1 situation all day long, then perhaps we should snap them up.

Until then i'll blame the novice who came up with the terrible formation and failed to see such a glaring flaw in it until the 75th minute.

[Steve Moss]

Salgado is an excellent player, fit, skilled and experienced, lacking only in pace. We are, in my opinion, lucky to have him. Kean did well to extend him.

Now Kean has to do well in accounting for Salgado's lack of pace in putting together his tactical plan.

[Kelbo]

Totally agree with you on this point. It hasn't been helped by allowing El-Hadji Diouf, one of our most consistent performers this season, out on loan to Rangers. Diouf got through an awful lot of work on the flanks helping out the defence. He was also capable of firing in the type of crosses that Roque is going to need. The only reason I can see for allowing Diouf to leave was because the manager found him difficult to handle and one might have thought that handling difficult players was part of a manager's job description.

Bingo!! spot on and more importantly for a team who are being set up to play a passing game on the floor, I would be interested to see the stats regarding posession in our last few games, indeed, even in beating WBA at Ewood we only had something like 38% and Diouf was the one player who could keep possession.

Salgado has been superb since he arrived. Yes it took him a little time to adjust to PL life but he had a fantastic back end of last season and an equally superb start this season.

Admittedly players like Bale and Lennon might catch him out, but there aren't many of them around, and when cover was provided he was solid and dependable.

This change of formation has left him shockingly exposed trying to mark a very good partnership of Enrique and Gutierrez. If you can name me a RB who could deal with a 2v1 situation all day long, then perhaps we should snap them up.

Until then i'll blame the novice who came up with the terrible formation and failed to see such a glaring flaw in it until the 75th minute.

Yes, I would agree with that entirely, its a no brainer really, I keep asking myself as to why the management cant see it, I saw it at the Wigan game, we knew Nzogbia was a problem area, we didnt deal with it!

[Andy3809]

Don't be daft. Have you not seen that chart? http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php/topic/24191-newcastle-home/page__view__findpost__p__1027755

The way that the team was set up with NO RIGHT MIDFIELDER in sight would see Emerton get ripped to shreds just as easily as Salgado was. Nobody can defend against two players for 90 mins.

Your being daft mate. A pattern of play. Ie sucking in our right midfielder, a quick switch and Salgado is exposed. Do you honestly think we set up to play with nobody on the right? Anyone can find a little chart on the net and use it to prove any point they wish. Do you understand why it happened? Why it appears we had nobody on the right?

Because Newcastle set up to make it so. Because they rehearsed patterns of play to make it happen. Because they knew as does every opposition manager in the league that if you can get him one on one you'll get some joy.

People have mentioned he's been solid apart from a couple of games. In the last few weeks alone he's been done by Lennon, Thomas, Nzogbia, and Newcastle.

[cn174]

Your being daft mate. A pattern of play. Ie sucking in our right midfielder, a quick switch and Salgado is exposed. Do you honestly think we set up to play with nobody on the right? Anyone can find a little chart on the net and use it to prove any point they wish. Do you understand why it happened? Why it appears we had nobody on the right?

Because Newcastle set up to make it so. Because they rehearsed patterns of play to make it happen. Because they knew as does every opposition manager in the league that if you can get him one on one you'll get some joy.

People have mentioned he's been solid apart from a couple of games. In the last few weeks alone he's been done by Lennon, Thomas, Nzogbia, and Newcastle.

Because we've played the same way since Villa in the Cup - with no actual right sided player. It didn't work at Villa and it hasn't worked since.

[roversmum]

Exactly, Clare. Why can't the Manager see it? SO frustrating ...

[Andy3809]

Exactly, Clare. Why can't the Manager see it? SO frustrating ...

But he can see it. Were playing in one of the best leagues in the world here not down the park. He obviously thinks Hoilett roaming and looking to get involved in other area's outweighs the potential of leaving Salgado exposed. He probably had a system in place to provide cover that either didn't go to plan or was more likely out thought by Newcastle.

People moaned when our wide players didn't beat men and get involved under the old management. It's safe, predictable and likely to make you very hard to beat as you always have cover on the flanks. Offensively it's very limiting hence our reliance on set pieces.

The way we are setting up at the moment requires a quick right back at the top of his game as he will be left exposed even against average teams. (Thomas and West Brom as an example)

[Blackburn Ravers]

But he can see it. Were playing in one of the best leagues in the world here not down the park. He obviously thinks Hoilett roaming and looking to get involved in other area's outweighs the potential of leaving Salgado exposed. He probably had a system in place to provide cover that either didn't go to plan or was more likely out thought by Newcastle.

People moaned when our wide players didn't beat men and get involved under the old management. It's safe, predictable and likely to make you very hard to beat as you always have cover on the flanks. Offensively it's very limiting hence our reliance on set pieces.

The way we are setting up at the moment requires a quick right back at the top of his game as he will be left exposed even against average teams. (Thomas and West Brom as an example)

Good post,

[Kelbo]

Your being daft mate. A pattern of play. Ie sucking in our right midfielder, a quick switch and Salgado is exposed. Do you honestly think we set up to play with nobody on the right? Anyone can find a little chart on the net and use it to prove any point they wish. Do you understand why it happened? Why it appears we had nobody on the right?

Because Newcastle set up to make it so. Because they rehearsed patterns of play to make it happen. Because they knew as does every opposition manager in the league that if you can get him one on one you'll get some joy.

People have mentioned he's been solid apart from a couple of games. In the last few weeks alone he's been done by Lennon, Thomas, Nzogbia, and Newcastle.

I have to disagree for the following reasons, your wide players can get forward and still get cover, but not with a diamond formation, its naive and poor planning against quick players, look with four in midfield (even five) if the winger goes forward, the rest of the midfield simply moves across one, still the cover down the flank the winger has gone down, if play is switched, simply move one back the other way, this means we keep our shape, can defend in two lines of four and not let our defence get exposed with 2 on 1s - just out of interest, despite his pace, even Olsson is struggling with this formation!

As for Newcastle settiing things up to expose the flank, they couldnt do that with a 4 or 5 man midfield, only with a diamond formation! Finally, Rovers should dictate play, not Newcastle, Newcastle are far from being a top side and we should be more than capable of beating them.

PS. because we had no right midfield, the full back was able to spend 70 minutes camped in our half, he couldnt do that if we had a wide player out hugging the touchline could he?

[Majiball]

I have to disagree for the following reasons, your wide players can get forward and still get cover, but not with a diamond formation, its naive and poor planning against quick players, look with four in midfield (even five) if the winger goes forward, the rest of the midfield simply moves across one, still the cover down the flank the winger has gone down, if play is switched, simply move one back the other way, this means we keep our shape, can defend in two lines of four and not let our defence get exposed with 2 on 1s - just out of interest, despite his pace, even Olsson is struggling with this formation!

As for Newcastle settiing things up to expose the flank, they couldnt do that with a 4 or 5 man midfield, only with a diamond formation! Finally, Rovers should dictate play, not Newcastle, Newcastle are far from being a top side and we should be more than capable of beating them.

PS. because we had no right midfield, the full back was able to spend 70 minutes camped in our half, he couldnt do that if we had a wide player out hugging the touchline could he?

Chelsea play a diamond and they don't get exposed like we do?

[Andy3809]

The idea with playing a diamond is that jones is the cover for the wide men when they bomb on. Either he goes across or one of the centre half's do and he plugs the gaps. Attacking football is risky regardless of these measures. A flat four across midfield that slides across to cover is far too linear and hard to regroup once we lose possession. With the diamond jones is always sat in front of the defence and rarely gets involved up the pitch. Hence when we loose possession were already set up to defend the break. This is of course the theory and doesn't take in to account the opposition plans and the discipline of the players carrying it out. Key to this is good and quick full backs as I orginally stated as it is risky football. Teams are setting up to isolate our fullbacks as they know if they can suck jones across and then switch play quickly they will get one on one. Salgado or ollson one on one who do you pick? Salgado everytime.

[Andy3809]

Now go back to the player area diagram. The concentration of players on the opposite side? Newcastle sucking in players to the opposite flank. Now imagine a quick switch and you have an exposed full back. This full back must have pace.

[Kelbo]

The idea with playing a diamond is that jones is the cover for the wide men when they bomb on. Either he goes across or one of the centre half's do and he plugs the gaps. Attacking football is risky regardless of these measures. A flat four across midfield that slides across to cover is far too linear and hard to regroup once we lose possession. With the diamond jones is always sat in front of the defence and rarely gets involved up the pitch. Hence when we loose possession were already set up to defend the break. This is of course the theory and doesn't take in to account the opposition plans and the discipline of the players carrying it out. Key to this is good and quick full backs as I orginally stated as it is risky football. Teams are setting up to isolate our fullbacks as they know if they can suck jones across and then switch play quickly they will get one on one. Salgado or ollson one on one who do you pick? Salgado everytime.

But Olsson is also being exposed, its the system, moving accross one from a four or five midfield would not allow that to happen, a much better side than Newcastle were contained by Fulham doing just as I said and they never got a cross in form open play, defended well in two lines of four from midfield, now if you can contain Drogba, Torres, Anelka, Cole bombing on from left back etc. the system works, now if you are saying Keans niave and asking players to play within a system they cant play in, thats a different matter entirely.

[Kelbo]

But he can see it. Were playing in one of the best leagues in the world here not down the park. He obviously thinks Hoilett roaming and looking to get involved in other area's outweighs the potential of leaving Salgado exposed. He probably had a system in place to provide cover that either didn't go to plan or was more likely out thought by Newcastle.

People moaned when our wide players didn't beat men and get involved under the old management. It's safe, predictable and likely to make you very hard to beat as you always have cover on the flanks. Offensively it's very limiting hence our reliance on set pieces.

The way we are setting up at the moment requires a quick right back at the top of his game as he will be left exposed even against average teams. (Thomas and West Brom as an example)

You cant have two strikers and have hoilett roaming as well, thats bloody suicide and schoolboy stuff, you then are left with a three man midfield, now that is asking for bloody trouble!!

And a quick right back bombing on as well, god who is defending, no sensible coach would set that up!

[Andy3809]

But a flat four midfield with your wide men bombing on isn't a flat midfield. Two flat banks of four is containing a side as per your fulham example which they did very well. And the way sam set us up. I do think that the players will struggle to carry it out at times yes. And I do think teams will look to expose it. I also tHink that pace to recover is vital which is my main point especially for the full backs. Master it and you have a top side that scores for fun and recovers well. Do it with average players and you'll have good days and bad days and see plenty of goals in both nets.