[Archived] Sustained Attempt to Undermine the Club?

[RovertheHill]

Whats you feelings towards the Wikileaks situation RTH? Do you think every secret and every source of info etc should be brought out and exposed in the public domain whatever the associated cost?

It's an interesting question. My thoughts are that you either let the information out or you don't say anything. What you don't do is say "I know something but I can't say what it is but it's really bad" My point is I don't really want people to name sources but I'd rather they shared the info or said nothing at all.

[Paul]

Whether they are founded or unfounded I have lots of concerns .....

Correct I agree entirely.

I suppose in the eyes of the OP I'm one of those undermining the club and according to others a racist to boot.

Personally I gave up making any observations on the club ownership over a month ago. I understand the argument put forward by those who feel the doubting Thomas's should provide hard concrete information. I have some sympathy with the view. In response to the requests for hard detail I posted what I felt was very significant information regarding a new mortgage charge with Barclays which is underwritten by ALL (every penny worldwide) of the club's broadcast and media income. I deliberately avoided expressing any opinion as I wished to avoid influencing the discussion. I was disappointed to see the thread got very little reaction and few posters realised the ramifications of this charge. I note with interest the OP and those supporting him/her didn't contribute to the thread, based on hard factual information in the public domain, at all.

Like others I've virtually stopped posting. The insinuations made in this thread against long term supporters who are worried by what they observe and hear mean I shall contribute less. No doubt this will help the MB return to the sea of blue and white positivity which many need to feed off. I'd like to make clear one thing, I've only heard a few bits of "inside information" and 99% of my opinion is formulated on the back of media reporting. The same media reporting we all have access to. However the small bits of information I have, which might be considered "inside info" scare the daylights out of me and absolutely confirm all the worries I have as a result of the owner's actions.

I apologise for being unable to post what I know. I'm a trustworthy person and I'm not going change.

There is one contributor to this message board who probably has access to more information than the rest put together. I wonder why none of it ever gets posted.

[47er]

Correct I agree entirely.

I suppose in the eyes of the OP I'm one of those undermining the club and according to others a racist to boot.

Personally I gave up making any observations on the club ownership over a month ago. I understand the argument put forward by those who feel the doubting Thomas's should provide hard concrete information. I have some sympathy with the view. In response to the requests for hard detail I posted what I felt was very significant information regarding a new mortgage charge with Barclays which is underwritten by ALL (every penny worldwide) of the club's broadcast and media income. I deliberately avoided expressing any opinion as I wished to avoid influencing the discussion. I was disappointed to see the thread got very little reaction and few posters realised the ramifications of this charge. I note with interest the OP and those supporting him/her didn't contribute to the thread, based on hard factual information in the public domain, at all.

Like others I've virtually stopped posting. The insinuations made in this thread against long term supporters who are worried by what they observe and hear mean I shall contribute less. No doubt this will help the MB return to the sea of blue and white positivity which many need to feed off. I'd like to make clear one thing, I've only heard a few bits of "inside information" and 99% of my opinion is formulated on the back of media reporting. The same media reporting we all have access to. However the small bits of information I have, which might be considered "inside info" scare the daylights out of me and absolutely confirm all the worries I have as a result of the owner's actions.

I apologise for being unable to post what I know. I'm a trustworthy person and I'm not going change.

There is one contributor to this message board who probably has access to more information than the rest put together. I wonder why none of it ever gets posted.

I appreciated your info on the Barclays mortgage charge. The trouble was that I couldn't make head nor tail of it, let alone fully work out the implications! I waited for people more schooled in this area to come forward but didn't feel they knew either.

I guess we have to take a lot on trust. I just console myself with the belief that we were going down the gurgler anyway without a takeover so better the hope of better things than the certainty of none.

[CrazyIvan]

I appreciated your info on the Barclays mortgage charge. The trouble was that I couldn't make head nor tail of it, let alone fully work out the implications! I waited for people more schooled in this area to come forward but didn't feel they knew either.

I guess we have to take a lot on trust. I just console myself with the belief that we were going down the gurgler anyway without a takeover so better the hope of better things than the certainty of none.

I was exactly the same as you and the more people posted on the subject, the more I got confused as the information seemed muddled and overly complicated...

[Paul]

I appreciated your info on the Barclays mortgage charge. The trouble was that I couldn't make head nor tail of it, let alone fully work out the implications! I waited for people more schooled in this area to come forward but didn't feel they knew either.

I guess we have to take a lot on trust. I just console myself with the belief that we were going down the gurgler anyway without a takeover so better the hope of better things than the certainty of none.

I'll PM you later

[imy9]

I think everyones heart is in the right place but misinformation like community projects will no longer be funded by Venkys have made this site worse and has added to the uncertainty IMO.

[BangkokRover]

I'll PM you later

Could you not post an idiots guide so that it could be opened up to a wider audience?

[Ste B]

Not going to say much, as its already been well covered by Glenn, Paul and Thenodrog..

Whilst some may see its as an attempt to undermine the club, others may see it as making sure that the damage is limited before its too late to act.

Its a messageboard, its always going to have differences of opinion.. where its difficult to do seems to be respecting the rights of that person to express that opinion, and argue the points in a civil manner.

[RovertheHill]

Correct I agree entirely.

I suppose in the eyes of the OP I'm one of those undermining the club and according to others a racist to boot.

Personally I gave up making any observations on the club ownership over a month ago. I understand the argument put forward by those who feel the doubting Thomas's should provide hard concrete information. I have some sympathy with the view. In response to the requests for hard detail I posted what I felt was very significant information regarding a new mortgage charge with Barclays which is underwritten by ALL (every penny worldwide) of the club's broadcast and media income. I deliberately avoided expressing any opinion as I wished to avoid influencing the discussion. I was disappointed to see the thread got very little reaction and few posters realised the ramifications of this charge. I note with interest the OP and those supporting him/her didn't contribute to the thread, based on hard factual information in the public domain, at all.

I did read your thread and I did note that you avoided any opinion. I thought it was a great thread and not what this thread is about in any way shape or form. I'm very unhappy about what was in that thread but then again, I've been unhappy about the takeover since before it happened, when many others were playing fantasy football with the millions we'd get

It's obviously not clear so I'd just like to make it clear at this point, again, that I was against Syed taking over the club and I was against Venky's taking over. I was against Allardyce being sacked, and I was against Kean being appointed.

However, I don't think some of the stuff posted on here is helpful at all. Do you?

[philipl]

I think everyones heart is in the right place but misinformation like community projects will no longer be funded by Venkys have made this site worse and has added to the uncertainty IMO.

That was not misinformation. The Community Fund's Development Manager has left and as far as I am aware questions still hang over its operation.

I would be absolutely delighted if there has been a change of heart and all the community, educational and outreach activities are retained or expanded.

[Paul]

I think everyones heart is in the right place but misinformation like community projects will no longer be funded by Venkys have made this site worse and has added to the uncertainty IMO.

The community projects have never, as far as I know, been funded by the club. You're right this was incorrect information and I said so at the time.

[CrazyIvan]

That was not misinformation. The Community Fund's Development Manager has left and as far as I am aware questions still hang over its operation.

I would be absolutely delighted if there has been a change of heart and all the community, educational and outreach activities are retained or expanded.

Did Venkys have anything to do with the CFD manager leaving? Is the CFD department still being funded?

[Paul]

Could you not post an idiots guide so that it could be opened up to a wider audience?

Yes, trouble is I'm in the idiot camp as well. I'm not in anyway financially qualified but I think I understood what has been done. I partly avoided commenting because of a lack of knowledge and partly to avoid being labelled a prophet of doom. I'll put my views in that thread shortly.

[chris]

These people that believe the "new" theories are true are the same people that though the "Chris Boyd" short list was true.

the negative people almost love a loss because its their chance to dominate the board and add fuel to the fire.

I was against Kean's appointment, I think he's won the lottery based on his poor CV but it might work out never know.

I'd keep an open mind but I don't think the window signings were bad and still think we are currently better off.

My biggest worry is Kean, he scares me.

[92er]

Like others I've virtually stopped posting.

I apologise for being unable to post what I know. I'm a trustworthy person and I'm not going change.

I think it's a real shame you post much less now and I'm sure lots of others agree.

I would also be delighted if you would pm me re the Mortgage details.

[Ste B]

Did Venkys have anything to do with the CFD manager leaving? Is the CFD department still being funded?

It never has been funded by the club. I'm not sure anybody has ever backed up that the CFD manager has left and wasnt all hearsay

[CrazyIvan]

It never has been funded by the club. I'm not sure anybody has ever backed up that the CFD manager has left and wasnt all hearsay

In that case, what was the relevance and why was this used early on to seriously attack Venkys? That is, frankly, a dangerous thing to do and is designed to cause uproar and antagonise people against Venkys. (Question isn't aimed at you Ste, thanks for the answer though:))

[deftangel]

By and large, every single poster on this messageboard is here because they care about Rovers. That's the first thing I'd prefer everyone remember when things get heated on here.

I've been here a long time and I know who the rational posters are. Every rational Rovers fan will have concerns.

But the problem with any internet debate about something that people care about when it gets this entrenched is that either side becomes increasingly desperate to latch on to anything which backs up their point of view. This includes posting misinformation and I've definitely seen it from some long time normally rational posters.

Is it undermining the club? Not in of itself. As Glenn said, look at the people leaking info for that but dropping hints and not revealing or spinning every event or piece of news, no matter how tenuous, to reflect better on the point of view being presented is helping absolutely nobody. It's not damage limitation at all. Quite the opposite.

Hiding behind "sources" or "Venky's watching" is beyond weak. If it is in the best interests of the club that the information comes to light then it must do so and there are plenty of ways to do that without compromising ones self, sources or this messageboard. If anything because the fans can then collectively ask our new owners the right questions. In fact, I would rather help people with this than continually have to read "I've heard this but can't say, everyone be scared" on here.

As it is, certain posters have cried wolf so many times lately that I have no choice but to give their opinions less weight than I would normally. Some to me, seem actively petrified by the possibility that things might turn out ok, ridiculous as it sounds.

The reality is that nobody really knows at this point. It's too much of a mixed bag.

I would however, like to echo as many have done, the comments Re: the mortgage thread. That's the right way of going about things and I said as much in the thread but again, the reality of that is that we don't know what that means, yet. It's a cause for concern now for sure, but might turn out to be nothing to worry about. It's not a smoking gun but a starting point for asking the owners some proper questions, which the LET should be doing. Why haven't they picked it up?

I will venture however, that the thread didn't get much traction at least in part because of the very "boy cried wolf" effect I've described and it's a shame that should reflect on Paul who has made great efforts not to do so.

[Mercer]

All organisations should be open, honest and transparent - if they are, then they wont go far wrong.

Similarly, this MB should not be restrictive. All users should be encouraged to be forthright with their views and opinions and these should be respected by all, irrespective of whether you agree or disagree with them. 99% of all users know where the boundaries are and keep within them.

There is inference from several users that there is now active monitoring of the MB from the club and, allegedly, some high handed management. IF this is the case, then it's not the openness and honesty required and only serves to fuel further speculation as to what may or may not be right in the operation of our club. What does the club fear ? It would seem to confirm that the club is not communicating effectively with its supporters - the life blood of the club.

This board also acts as a barometer of supporters' feelings and it would be a huge backward step to try and suppress those feelings whether good, bad or indifferent.

[Paul]

I think it's a real shame you post much less now and I'm sure lots of others agree.

I would also be delighted if you would pm me re the Mortgage details.

I've put what I think in the relevant thread. Hope that's OK?

[Amo]

There are people who have legitimate concerns about the new regime and post balanced, reasoned arguments. But for every one of these members, there are ten who like the sound of their own voice and can't resist a sly dig at Venky's, Kean, and just about everyone involved with the takeover. People who have selective memories and pretend that Sam never put a foot wrong, or the Trust were noble owners, despite neglecting our squad for years and ironically were the ones who chewed Venky's hand off. These posts are the ones that really irk me, because they contribute nothing to the discussion and only fan the flames of controversy.

[blue_and_white]

You could have said exactly the same throughout Allardyce's reign. The reality of the situation was that we performed a miracle to avoid relegation with games to spare, then finished in the top half and got to a cup semi. However in the bizarre world of fans minds and internet message boards, there was something to complain about every week. Even unbelievably complaining about the manner of some of our wins, as if we're a top 4 club and winning alone isn't good enough!

Kean is simply getting the same treatment Allardyce got. I wouldn't say its an effort to undermine the club, just people being impatient and unrealistic. These kinds of boards are also a vent and I'm actually in favour of people who choose to do it on here but would never do it at a match. The backing the team got against Wigan was superb and (in the Darwen End at least) support has been continuous and enthusiastic despite 2 poor home performances.

The sections booing substitutions/Andrews against Tottenham is the only manner in which some fans have seriously undermined the club recently, however that was angrily condemned by the 90% of our fans who aren't idiots.

[Al]

I was shocked when Allardyce was sacked, surprised when Kean was appointed and worried when I found that Anderson had set up an office at Ewood but when Mr Williams, a man I trusted above all others, finds it necessary to resign after so many years something in the setup stinks to high heaven. That is my opinion and I think I have the right to express it.

I can't switch teams but I am awaiting developments before purchasing a season ticket next season.

[chris]

Kean's getting worse the Sam I think because he is dumped in the deep end with no experiance by owners with no experience. I always thought Sam we a good manager. But Kean's crazy promotion, people can take advantage of this, hell I make fun of it but the damage that I think harford and Kidd did to the club is HUGE. Hence I can understand a little paranoia, maybe a lot.

It will be interesting to see how many people on this thread will be so positive if we lose the next match.

Hopefully Kean proves the doubters wrong, will he? no idea at all.

[Exiled in Toronto]

These kinds of boards are also a vent

That's the problem in my mind. This is a discussion board not a billboard. 99% of us read far more than we post so whenever you post you have an audience. If the best comedian in the world only had one joke and repeated it time after time, he would be boo-ed off the stage. That's what's happening to the dozen or so posters who repeat the same points in multiple threads umpteen times a day. They're not being shouted down because of their views but because it's the only thing they ever say.

If you want to vent, shout at the cat.