[Archived] Sustained Attempt to Undermine the Club?

[Mattyblue]

Not to repeat myself but Eddie is not right at all.

NOBODY wants the club to fail, why the hell would we get get so hot under the collar about this if we did?

If it ended up in relegation, there are certainly some on here that would enjoy the 'I told you so' taunts and one-upmanship, would they be enjoying our demise though? Would they feck!

[ross-shire rover]

Someone or something changed my could have done to could have done. Why does it not do that to everyone else? :rolleyes:

[RovertheHill]

But maybe there is a point to the hinting. Maybe it's an encouragement to other people to ask the right questions of the right people (as I seem one forum member has done today), things the posters can't do without betraying confidences, risking makings problems worse or getting the forum into hefty amounts of trouble by saying things they know but can't prove.

I don't understand how you can draw that distinction. If somebody's intention is to hint enough to bring it out into the open then it's betraying the confidence ultimately. And besides, if it is that important/scary that it needs to come out then there are surely better ways than cryptic hinting on a very, very public messageboard?

[Amo]

Not to repeat myself but Eddie is not right at all.

NOBODY wants the club to fail, why the hell would we get get so hot under the collar about this if we did?

Then explain why people like Jim had nothing to say when we beat WBA & Liverpool. Couldn't just enjoy the moment. But the moment we lost, he was like a rat up a drainpipe.

[yeti-dog]

Then explain why people like Jim had nothing to say when we beat WBA & Liverpool. Couldn't just enjoy the moment. But the moment we lost, he was like a rat up a drainpipe.

Precisely the point I was making Topman..I'm pleased others have seen it too otherwise I'd be worrying that my medication is wearing off!

[Balwer]

Then explain why people like Jim had nothing to say when we beat WBA & Liverpool. Couldn't just enjoy the moment. But the moment we lost, he was like a rat up a drainpipe.

There will always be people who are pro and against either the management, the ownership, or all of the above. There will never be universal popularity for any decisions. While Jim might be quick to point out certain problems after a loss, Waggy was no different during Allardyce's tenure, and there were several like that when Ince was in charge. Similarly there will always be people who will see the positives in Venkys/Kean/Allardyce/The Trust. I have never doubted for one minute however that any Rovers fan, on this forum at least, wants anything but the best for the club, even if they don't sometimes agree with how that outcome is achieved in the long run.

[Paul]

For me it's reached a fine state of affairs when a fan has to justify his or her views on a messageboard. I guess it must be an indication of the extent to which the club's recent history, and I mean more than the last three months, has polarised opinion.

Fans who have been on here long enough may recall I once posted "we need a hero" - I suppose it was a rather poor attempt at humour based on a rather stupid song that was in my mind. The point was we once had heroes - Hendry, Shearer, Barker, Reid, Garner, Fazakerley, Mimms, Sellars to name a few because the list was once endless. It remains true today we do need heroes and we have none. Thing is we have support which labels the scorer of the winning goal against Burnley as a legend (Di Santo) yet will happily rubbish another scorer of a winning goal against Burnley (MGP) as rubbish. Anyone else remember that rain sodden night? Which one deserves to be a legend? I know where I stand.

For years I have been against the money in football. I have questioned the introduction of foreign money and foreign owners arguing it is bad for the game because it has destroyed my dreams. This money has destroyed your dreams as well. Look at the table, look at where the money comes from. Blackburn Rovers have absolutely no chance of ever being significant again - we can no longer dream. I may be getting old and grumpy but I still want to dream, I want my club to have a chance. And the extent of our ambition - 10th?? What I see is all of that taken away and now I see the club threatened by the very money which took away those dreams. So if I question all of this people are going to have to put up with it.

Ipswich Town were once champions. Nottingham Forest. Hey even Blackburn Rovers. There was a time when a football team could challenge the best, and WIN.

Folk really need to take a look around. Someone said look in the mirror. That's true. Look at the dog's abuse handed out to Andrews, Roberts, Salgado and a few others. Look at the fawning over anyone who posts what you want to hear. I question the owners, I question foreign investment, I question Sky but has anyone ever heard me question a footballer wearing a blue and white shirt? So yes look in the mirror and next time you want to make a cheap joke at the expense of Keith Andrews or post that Nelsen is dogsh!t (according to our greatest fan) think on. And people have the audacity to suggest anyone who questions the owners is looking to mount a "sustained attempt to undermine the club" Try asking Keith Andrews how well supported he feels by all those who criticise him on here and boo his every touch of the ball.

I am generally in favour of Rovers signing players I can identify with. This means players I can believe in, footballers I've heard of. Yes I think it was better when the majority of players in the PL / Division One where English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish. Why? Because they had a certain committment. Today I'm expected to cheer some here today, gone tomorrow player whose name I cannot even pronounce. I need a hero.

.......and if you don't understand it's because the dreams have gone. I have one dream left, I never have to explain to my lad why he doesn't get to see the Rovers play in the PL anymore.............and I worry that dream may be shattered in the near future.

Apologies. Rant over.

[deftangel]

But maybe there is a point to the hinting. Maybe it's an encouragement to other people to ask the right questions of the right people (as I seem one forum member has done today), things the posters can't do without betraying confidences, risking makings problems worse or getting the forum into hefty amounts of trouble by saying things they know but can't prove.

I still don't think it helps. If those who have access to Venky's are going to ask the right questions they need to be specific. We can't expect the LET to rock up at their next interview and ask a question about "dark forces" or "some say we should be worried!" as they'll just get laughed off or fluff answers back.

This is only compounded by the relative remoteness of our owners. Opportunities are going to be very limited.

There has been a lot of stuff that hasn't happened. No mass player exodus, no Maradona, no Kris Boyd, no Geovani, no SEM clients smash and grab. That's not to say there wasn't anything in any of those stories but they are getting to be more like sexed up 45 minute WMD type claims than anything actually useful.

[jim mk2]

Then explain why people like Jim had nothing to say when we beat WBA & Liverpool. Couldn't just enjoy the moment. But the moment we lost, he was like a rat up a drainpipe.

Those victories masked problems resulting from the changes in management personnel that are now becoming apparent. Of course I enjoyed the wins but I thought we were lucky to beat West Brom in both matches and the Liverpool win was fraught towards the end when we could easily have given it away. I'm not against the ownership but I do not agree with the decisions they have taken. There were alot of upset people at Ewood on Saturday and as someone remarked a general level of despondancy not seen since Ince was in charge. Are they undermining the club or are they just very worried about the club's survival like alot of fans ?

[deftangel]

Fans who have been on here long enough may recall I once posted "we need a hero" - I suppose it was a rather poor attempt at humour based on a rather stupid song that was in my mind. The point was we once had heroes - Hendry, Shearer, Barker, Reid, Garner, Fazakerley, Mimms, Sellars to name a few because the list was once endless. It remains true today we do need heroes and we have none. Thing is we have support which labels the scorer of the winning goal against Burnley as a legend (Di Santo) yet will happily rubbish another scorer of a winning goal against Burnley (MGP) as rubbish. Anyone else remember that rain sodden night? Which one deserves to be a legend? I know where I stand.

I remember something along those lines when Bellamy was here (or sold?). MGP will always be a hero to me and not for one goal but a string of moments over the years. Same goes for Jansen.

Folk really need to take a look around. Someone said look in the mirror. That's true. Look at the dog's abuse handed out to Andrews, Roberts, Salgado and a few others. Look at the fawning over anyone who posts what you want to hear. I question the owners, I question foreign investment, I question Sky but has anyone ever heard me question a footballer wearing a blue and white shirt? So yes look in the mirror and next time you want to make a cheap joke at the expense of Keith Andrews or post that Nelsen is dogsh!t (according to our greatest fan) think on. And people have the audacity to suggest anyone who questions the owners is looking to mount a "sustained attempt to undermine the club" Try asking Keith Andrews how well supported he feels by all those who criticise him on here and boo his every touch of the ball.

I think you are over-stating this somewhat. The OP and several other posters, myself included have made it clear enough that we wouldn't have such audacity to label that accusation at merely anyone who questions the owners. Certainly not of you and I think 99% of this board would agree. 1% is still a lot of idiots maybe but you'll get my point I hope.

In fact, I wouldn't label that accusation at anyone here so I would say the thread title is overly provocative but perhaps it needed to be to create a proper debate? I don't think anyone seriously thinks people on this board are trying to undermine the club but look past the thread title and there definitely is a bigger issue here. Some are so entrenched in their anti-Venky's position (not you!) that they desperately try to retrofit anything to their worldview. It's self re-enforcing and unhealthy.

I don't have time to finesse this better than that but there it is

[47er]

Help me out here. I'm not Anti-Venkys, I desperately want them to succeed. I was all in favour of the takeover because I thought (and think) is the only chance we've got. But now I'm yelling at them to do something to shore up the football management side of things before its too late.

But they appointed him, they marginalised John Williams and they have given their word that Kean is safe.

So does that make me anti-Venkys? See the dilemma?

Actually I think I'm pro-Rovers.( C'mn Chelsea by the way!)

[RovertheHill]

And people have the audacity to suggest anyone who questions the owners is looking to mount a "sustained attempt to undermine the club" Try asking Keith Andrews how well supported he feels by all those who criticise him on here and boo his every touch of the ball.

As I started this thread I can only assume you are aiming that at me and my audacity for starting this thread. However, I don't know if you are wilfully ignoring the point I was trying to make or just don't care. I am not suggesting the owners should not be questioned. I am questioning the means by which people are going about it, and whether it is the best way to achieve that. To use your own example of Keith Andrews. Fans have every right to question his suitability to play for Rovers, or indeed his performances when he does. Booing him when he is playing a match, I would suggest, is not the best way to achieve that.

[thenodrog]

That's the problem in my mind. This is a discussion board not a billboard. 99% of us read far more than we post so whenever you post you have an audience. If the best comedian in the world only had one joke and repeated it time after time, he would be boo-ed off the stage. That's what's happening to the dozen or so posters who repeat the same points in multiple threads umpteen times a day. They're not being shouted down because of their views but because it's the only thing they ever say.

If you want to vent, shout at the cat.

A post steeped in hypocricy if ever there was one.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

A post steeped in hypocricy if ever there was one.

Well you'd know.

[47er]

As I started this thread I can only assume you are aiming that at me and my audacity for starting this thread. However, I don't know if you are wilfully ignoring the point I was trying to make or just don't care. I am not suggesting the owners should not be questioned. I am questioning the means by which people are going about it, and whether it is the best way to achieve that. To use your own example of Keith Andrews. Fans have every right to question his suitability to play for Rovers, or indeed his performances when he does. Booing him when he is playing a match, I would suggest, is not the best way to achieve that.

What's booing Andrews got to do with deliberately undermining the club?

[RovertheHill]

What's booing Andrews got to do with deliberately undermining the club?

Paul referred to the treatment of Andrews in his post and I was simply extending the analogy.

Or something like that.

[Parsonblue]

Too many on here wanting the club to fail because of their dislike of our new owners. I was one of the most vocal naysayers when it came to Allardyce and his tactics, but I still always wanted the club to win and be successful.

There is now a large percentage of the site who use every opportunity to stick the knife in, be it after a loss, a failed attempt to sign a player or a slightly negative article. The most surprising thing is that this group includes a large number of posters who have been on here for years and who were, for the most part, always sensible.

So basically what you are saying is that anybody who dare critise the present manager obviously wants the club to fail while you were relentless in your criticism of Sam, but that was OK because you wanted the team to win. Sorry but that's complete rubbish.

Do you think that after 50 years of supporting this club I want it to fail simply because I have reservations about the new manager? Do you seriously believe that I travel all over following the team simply in the hope we get beat? As for our owners I neither like nor dislike them, I don't know them, I've never met them. However, I have reservations about some of their decision making - like sacking an experienced manager and replacing him with a novice at a critical point in the season.

I don't believe that there is anyone who posts on this messageboard who is not fully committed to the cause of Blackburn Rovers. However, people are allowed to express opinions. Goodness knows we had enough negative comments when Sam was in charge. While I might not have agreed with them I never once suspected that those who disliked him would want the team to lose matches.

[Kelbo]

So basically what you are saying is that anybody who dare critise the present manager obviously wants the club to fail while you were relentless in your criticism of Sam, but that was OK because you wanted the team to win. Sorry but that's complete rubbish.

Do you think that after 50 years of supporting this club I want it to fail simply because I have reservations about the new manager? Do you seriously believe that I travel all over following the team simply in the hope we get beat? As for our owners I neither like nor dislike them, I don't know them, I've never met them. However, I have reservations about some of their decision making - like sacking an experienced manager and replacing him with a novice at a critical point in the season.

I don't believe that there is anyone who posts on this messageboard who is not fully committed to the cause of Blackburn Rovers. However, people are allowed to express opinions. Goodness knows we had enough negative comments when Sam was in charge. While I might not have agreed with them I never once suspected that those who disliked him would want the team to lose matches.

Parson, you certainly make a great point, I always want Rovers to win, it hurts like hell when we lose, it hurts to see us being ripped open by average teams because we are not set up properly.

Steve Kean is far more qualified than I am and he really should be able to see what is happening, however as many have pointed out, a good coach does not always make a good manager!!

[yeti-dog]

I don't believe that was what Eddie was suggesting..criticism is all well and good and indeed should be welcomed.

However..certain posters on here (and I don't include you here)seem to actually relish our club losing thus enabling them to put a negative slant on seemingly everything. It is this which some people find incredibly frustrating and frankly unhelpful.

[Amo]

Of course I enjoyed the wins but I thought we were lucky to beat West Brom in both matches and the Liverpool win was fraught towards the end when we could easily have given it away.

There you go with more begrudging praise. I thought football was all about results?

[DE.]

To be fair, Jim's correct in saying we were somewhat fortunate to beat WBA both times. Our best performance under our new management so far, by far, was the Liverpool match. I thought we played some great football, looked dangerous, and were completely in control until the last ten minutes or so.

Unfortunately that performance so far has been the exception, and we seem to be regressing fast. Kean's system can work, we've seen glimpses of its potential, but there are cracks that need to be mended, and over the last few matches they just seem to have gotten wider, which I think it what is causing concern.

I'd love nothing more than for Kean to fix these issues and give us more matches like Liverpool, but the early signs don't fill me with too much confidence. Would love nothing more than for Kean to succeed, though.

[sambo]

It's people like Jim which make this MB less fun to visit.

If he isn't obsessively posting about Theno, he is criticising every move by Kean, even though Allardyce did the same.

However, he uses these as a reason Kean isn't up to it, showing a clear agenda in every post. If Big Sam did half the things Kean did, Jim would be praising him. It doesn't make sense - it is exactly like the 'Election' thread where he only focuses on what suits his agenda. Contrary to some, my agenda is seeing Rovers do well! I have come out with some tosh, usually in the heat of the moment, but I never come on here trying to annoy people or provoke arguments, like some with their purposely provocative and damn right weird posts

Too many waiting to say 'I told you so' after a defeat, and disappearing when we do well. Why not turn up after both wins and defeats, and give a balanced view? Yes, Newcastle at home was utter rubbish. Yet the Liverpool game was mightily impressive. It's sad when we're lucky when we win, and we deserve it when we lose. How can the current management win, when no matter what matters they're criticised?

Sorry for the rant, but I will always put Blackburn Rovers before some agenda. Sacking Big Sam was probably wrong, and Kean was a strange choice I admit. But criticising people who say 'let's give Kean a chance' is just madness. Airing concerns is one thing, trolling and constantly ranting is another.

[Amo]

To be fair, Jim's correct in saying we were somewhat fortunate to beat WBA both times. Our best performance under our new management so far, by far, was the Liverpool match. I thought we played some great football, looked dangerous, and were completely in control until the last ten minutes or so.

Jim's point means nothing when he also says that results are paramount, and yet continues to pick holes in three separate victories, all of which won by a two-goal margin.

Anyway, do we suddenly have to dominate games from start to finish now? I can't remember Rovers ever doing that on a consistent basis in the last ten years.

[92er]

It's people like Jim which make this MB less fun to visit.

If he's such a problem, why don't you put him on ignore?

[JAL]

JAL- Trust said "The club is provided for for the foreseeable future." "There seems to be a misunderstanding that there is an ever-shrinking pot of money available," he said. "That is not the case. There are other businesses apart from the club which generate profits which are available."

So why have they not used that money to support Rovers? Why did the back out of funding us the £3 million a season?

I just dont know why the trust stopped the funding imy9.

For piece of mind though i'm far more scathing of the present Walker family for taking their 20 pieces of silver and then delivering us with this current mob.